Hi all,
working on Wikipedia mobile app I realized that urls we want to share are too long sometimes and this is a problem when your maximum number of characters is limited. I think that Wikipedia should provide an own shortner url service, like goo.gl, bit.ly etc.. There's just an unofficial service for English Wikipedia: enwp.org... Petan on IRC proposed something like this:
wm.org/language/Article
for example
wm.org/en/Prague
Ok, wm.org is not free actually, but we can think about something similar... What do you think?
Regards,
=.4.S.=
please try this one: http://defn.me/s/
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 12:15 AM, Andrea Stagi stagi.andrea@gmail.comwrote:
Hi all,
working on Wikipedia mobile app I realized that urls we want to share are too long sometimes and this is a problem when your maximum number of characters is limited. I think that Wikipedia should provide an own shortner url service, like goo.gl, bit.ly etc.. There's just an unofficial service for English Wikipedia: enwp.org... Petan on IRC proposed something like this:
wm.org/language/Article
for example
wm.org/en/Prague
Ok, wm.org is not free actually, but we can think about something similar... What do you think?
Regards,
=.4.S.=
-- =.4ndrea.Stagi.=
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Mingli Yuan mingli.yuan@gmail.com wrote:
please try this one: http://defn.me/s/
Ideally, we'd have a service that allows shortening any WMF domain.
-Chad
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 21:52, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Mingli Yuan mingli.yuan@gmail.com wrote:
please try this one: http://defn.me/s/
Ideally, we'd have a service that allows shortening any WMF domain.
ShortUrl[1] extension which was written inspired by defn.me awaits deployment for sometime now,
[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ShortUrl
That doesn't allow you to type wi.ki/en/Donut in order to open article, shortened url is also hard to remember
Having a redirect service would make life easier, I hate to type these long urls in browser, especially on mobile phone
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik.lak@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 21:52, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Mingli Yuan mingli.yuan@gmail.com wrote:
please try this one: http://defn.me/s/
Ideally, we'd have a service that allows shortening any WMF domain.
ShortUrl[1] extension which was written inspired by defn.me awaits deployment for sometime now,
[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ShortUrl
-- Regards Srikanth.L _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
And I know enwp.org does it. I was thinking of a new domain for all wikimedia db's
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Petr Bena benapetr@gmail.com wrote:
That doesn't allow you to type wi.ki/en/Donut in order to open article, shortened url is also hard to remember
Having a redirect service would make life easier, I hate to type these long urls in browser, especially on mobile phone
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik.lak@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 21:52, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Mingli Yuan mingli.yuan@gmail.com wrote:
please try this one: http://defn.me/s/
Ideally, we'd have a service that allows shortening any WMF domain.
ShortUrl[1] extension which was written inspired by defn.me awaits deployment for sometime now,
[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ShortUrl
-- Regards Srikanth.L _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Petr Bena benapetr@gmail.com wrote:
That doesn't allow you to type wi.ki/en/Donut in order to open article, shortened url is also hard to remember
You could use wi.ki/en/Article.
Put all shorteners under like wi.ki/s/fe012fk
-Chad
----- Original Message -----
From: "Petr Bena" benapetr@gmail.com
That doesn't allow you to type wi.ki/en/Donut in order to open article, shortened url is also hard to remember
Well, there's nothing for that. wi.ki/en/Donut is not a shortened URL... cause what if the article you were interested in was "List of episodes of Buffy The Vampire Slayer"?
base36 shortnames, all lower case, please.
Cheers, -- jra
On 23/03/12 22:03, Jay Ashworth wrote:
That doesn't allow you to type wi.ki/en/Donut in order to open article, shortened url is also hard to remember
Well, there's nothing for that. wi.ki/en/Donut is not a shortened URL... cause what if the article you were interested in was "List of episodes of Buffy The Vampire Slayer"?
base36 shortnames, all lower case, please.
How does it help? Would you be able to calculate in your mind echo List of episodes of Buffy The Vampire Slayer | gzip | base64 for any title?
(If you answered yes, you're out of luck, the output is still larger than the title :)
On 03/24/2012 12:17 AM, Platonides wrote:
On 23/03/12 22:03, Jay Ashworth wrote:
base36 shortnames, all lower case, please.
How does it help? Would you be able to calculate in your mind echo List of episodes of Buffy The Vampire Slayer | gzip | base64 for any title?
A URL shortener works by assigning and storing a number, counting from 1 and up, to each URL on a first come, first serve basis. The number is written in base 36 (using 10 digits and 26 Latin lowercase letters), so the URL grows like log-36 of the number of stored URLs. The 40th URL might be wi.ki/14 (since 1 * 36 + 4 = 40). By using base36, the first million URLs can be represented by strings of 4 characters, rather than 6 digit decimal numbers. The result is a shorter URL, not a human computable, intuitive transform of the original URL.
On 24/03/12 00:44, Lars Aronsson wrote:
On 03/24/2012 12:17 AM, Platonides wrote:
On 23/03/12 22:03, Jay Ashworth wrote:
base36 shortnames, all lower case, please.
How does it help? Would you be able to calculate in your mind echo List of episodes of Buffy The Vampire Slayer | gzip | base64 for any title?
A URL shortener works by assigning and storing a number, counting from 1 and up, to each URL on a first come, first serve basis. The number is written in base 36 (using 10 digits and 26 Latin lowercase letters), so the URL grows like log-36 of the number of stored URLs. The 40th URL might be wi.ki/14 (since 1 * 36 + 4 = 40). By using base36, the first million URLs can be represented by strings of 4 characters, rather than 6 digit decimal numbers. The result is a shorter URL, not a human computable, intuitive transform of the original URL.
Yes, but you need to know in advance that [[Donut]] is at short.org/aGcK I'm not sure at this point which is what we're trying to solve.
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Platonides Platonides@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, but you need to know in advance that [[Donut]] is at short.org/aGcK I'm not sure at this point which is what we're trying to solve.
I see two different use cases here: one, you have URLs that need to be short so they can fit in Twitter messages and the like. Here, it doesn't matter whether the URL is human-readable, as long as it's short. The other use case is that you want to give people a human-rememberable URL in speech or on TV or the like, where it can't be hyperlinked. There it should be short but ideally also descriptive.
A single URL scheme won't necessarily work well for all possible use cases.
Purpose of this is to make it easier for users to open the wikipedia, not to link pages to someone else. Imagine you open a browser on some device and need to type
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blah
this is annoying and long
w.org/en/Blag is shorter and easier to type. I guess it would be best if mobile devices supported url's like
w Blah
which would redirect you to wikipedia page [[Blah]]. This could be implemented to some browsers by team of mobile devs we have? I guess that systems like android have the browser extendable by plugins. It could be a part of application for android we have
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Benjamin Lees emufarmers@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Platonides Platonides@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, but you need to know in advance that [[Donut]] is at short.org/aGcK I'm not sure at this point which is what we're trying to solve.
I see two different use cases here: one, you have URLs that need to be short so they can fit in Twitter messages and the like. Here, it doesn't matter whether the URL is human-readable, as long as it's short. The other use case is that you want to give people a human-rememberable URL in speech or on TV or the like, where it can't be hyperlinked. There it should be short but ideally also descriptive.
A single URL scheme won't necessarily work well for all possible use cases.
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Benjamin Lees emufarmers@gmail.com writes:
I see two different use cases here: one, you have URLs that need to be short so they can fit in Twitter messages and the like. Here, it doesn't matter whether the URL is human-readable, as long as it's short. The other use case is that you want to give people a human-rememberable URL in speech or on TV or the like, where it can't be hyperlinked. There it should be short but ideally also descriptive.
There is a third use case that people on zhwiki, hiwiki, arwiki and other wikis that don't use latinate characters have: avoiding URI encoding.
For example, http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/数学结构, when it is copy-pasted from Firefox, becomes http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%95%B0%E5%AD%A6%E7%BB%93%E6%9E%84.
The same goes for http://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/मुखपृष्ठ, which becomes http://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%96%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%83%E0%A4%B7%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A0.
From what I can see, the micro-blogging use case fits the needs of these
users nicely.
Mark.
Στις 26-03-2012, ημέρα Δευ, και ώρα 10:39 -0400, ο/η Mark A. Hershberger έγραψε:
Benjamin Lees emufarmers@gmail.com writes:
I see two different use cases here: one, you have URLs that need to be short so they can fit in Twitter messages and the like. Here, it doesn't matter whether the URL is human-readable, as long as it's short. The other use case is that you want to give people a human-rememberable URL in speech or on TV or the like, where it can't be hyperlinked. There it should be short but ideally also descriptive.
There is a third use case that people on zhwiki, hiwiki, arwiki and other wikis that don't use latinate characters have: avoiding URI encoding.
For example, http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/数学结构, when it is copy-pasted from Firefox, becomes http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%95%B0%E5%AD%A6%E7%BB%93%E6%9E%84.
The same goes for http://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/मुखपृष्ठ, which becomes http://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%96%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%83%E0%A4%B7%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A0.
From what I can see, the micro-blogging use case fits the needs of these users nicely.
Mark.
As one of those non latin script users, it irks me no end when I see a url that is opaque to me soley because it's been url-encoded. I would love a "smarter" url shortener; there's no reason projects with a latin1 script should produce human readable urls while the rest of us get to guess where links on our projects lead. Even somewhat weird romanization is better than what we have now.
Ariel
On 26 March 2012 08:38, Ariel T. Glenn ariel@wikimedia.org wrote: ..
As one of those non latin script users, it irks me no end when I see a url that is opaque to me soley because it's been url-encoded. I would love a "smarter" url shortener; there's no reason projects with a latin1 script should produce human readable urls while the rest of us get to guess where links on our projects lead. Even somewhat weird romanization is better than what we have now.
Ariel
Perhaps this is one of these problems that can't be solved just with computers.
Anyway It seems theres a system to convert unicode to ascii and back to the original ascii. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punycode
This http://xn--caon-hqa.es.wikipedia.org/ and http://ca%C3%B1on.es.wikipedia.org/ is the same url.
The ugly face of the problem shows with something like this: मुखपृष्ठ turns into xn--21bu3ao1c3cq5f, I don't help any human is helped by reading or writting "xn--21bu3ao1c3cq5f".
http://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%96%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%83%E...
http://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/xn--21bu3ao1c3cq5f
:P
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 23:11, Tei oscar.vives@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 March 2012 08:38, Ariel T. Glenn ariel@wikimedia.org wrote: ..
As one of those non latin script users, it irks me no end when I see a url that is opaque to me soley because it's been url-encoded. I would love a "smarter" url shortener; there's no reason projects with a latin1 script should produce human readable urls while the rest of us get to guess where links on our projects lead. Even somewhat weird romanization is better than what we have now.
Ariel
Perhaps this is one of these problems that can't be solved just with computers.
These can be solved, but may not be out of the box without writing some extra code / spending some time.
1. Malayalam and Odia are creating titles in latin and redirect them, display the latin urls using a prettyurl template[1] and each editor takes the extra bit of time to create these redirects and it works for them!
2. Then there is interwiki based redirection tools like wikishortpy[2] which are being used by Tamil Wikipedia. http://tawp.in/e/Tamil redirects to http://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%AE%A4%E0%AE%AE%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%B4%E0%AF%8D along with the "micro-blogging use case" url http://tawp.in/r/2vd1
3. When there is working code on script conversion of each language into latin, we can have human identifiable "easy to type" URLs. These will also be helpful on feature mobiles where one may not have typing solution. It will happen sooner or later nonetheless.
[1] http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Prettyurl [2] https://github.com/yuvipanda/wikishortipy
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Andrea Stagi stagi.andrea@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
working on Wikipedia mobile app I realized that urls we want to share are too long sometimes and this is a problem when your maximum number of characters is limited. I think that Wikipedia should provide an own shortner url service, like goo.gl, bit.ly etc.. There's just an unofficial service for English Wikipedia: enwp.org... Petan on IRC proposed something like this:
wm.org/language/Article
for example
wm.org/en/Prague
Ok, wm.org is not free actually, but we can think about something similar... What do you think?
I suggested getting wi.ki a long time ago, but Kiribati charges an exorbitant rate for their domains.
-Chad
A past discussion of this: http://wikimedia.7.n6.nabble.com/Re-Fwd-Re-Do-WMF-want-enwp-org-td1261498.ht...
Incidentally, there's nothing to say that enwp.org couldn't be made an official service (alongside whatever universal scheme might someday be developed), but nobody seems to have ever gone ahead and done it: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30861
I've suggested for years that we ask for w.org. It is a reserved domain name that we could ask IANA to grant to us. The X.Org Foundation has x.org (grandfathered in), and I believe we have a compelling argument for wanting the domain. Plus, it likely wouldn't cost us anything, unlike all the other options. We should at least ask. The worst that can happen is they say no.
Ryan Kaldari
On 3/23/12 9:15 AM, Andrea Stagi wrote:
Hi all,
working on Wikipedia mobile app I realized that urls we want to share are too long sometimes and this is a problem when your maximum number of characters is limited. I think that Wikipedia should provide an own shortner url service, like goo.gl, bit.ly etc.. There's just an unofficial service for English Wikipedia: enwp.org... Petan on IRC proposed something like this:
wm.org/language/Articlefor example
wm.org/en/PragueOk, wm.org is not free actually, but we can think about something similar... What do you think?
Regards,
=.4.S.=
Am 24.03.2012 19:42, schrieb Ryan Kaldari:
I've suggested for years that we ask for w.org. It is a reserved domain name that we could ask IANA to grant to us. The X.Org Foundation has x.org (grandfathered in), and I believe we have a compelling argument for wanting the domain. Plus, it likely wouldn't cost us anything, unlike all the other options. We should at least ask. The worst that can happen is they say no.
Let me add that Wikimedia CH and Wikimedia Österreich are also members of ICANN. I am board member of EURALO in ICANN. If we can do anything to support this let me know.
/Manuel
Yes please, since it must be someone from wmf to ask, do that!
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
I've suggested for years that we ask for w.org. It is a reserved domain name that we could ask IANA to grant to us. The X.Org Foundation has x.org (grandfathered in), and I believe we have a compelling argument for wanting the domain. Plus, it likely wouldn't cost us anything, unlike all the other options. We should at least ask. The worst that can happen is they say no.
Ryan Kaldari
On 3/23/12 9:15 AM, Andrea Stagi wrote:
Hi all,
working on Wikipedia mobile app I realized that urls we want to share are too long sometimes and this is a problem when your maximum number of characters is limited. I think that Wikipedia should provide an own shortner url service, like goo.gl, bit.ly etc.. There's just an unofficial service for English Wikipedia: enwp.org... Petan on IRC proposed something like this:
wm.org/language/Article
for example
wm.org/en/Prague
Ok, wm.org is not free actually, but we can think about something similar... What do you think?
Regards,
=.4.S.=
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org