Hi,
this is a second time I am opening this - last time we decided to merge wikitech and labsconsole to make a documentation base for developers and operation engineers (at least those working at labs - I consider operation of bots and such services operation as well).
Since then, not much has happened. Me and Thehelpfulone were working on some preparation for merge, by indexing some uncategorized pages on wikitech, and flagging what can be safely removed (by leaving it on wikitech and not merging at all).
Can we move forward in this? What needs to be done to merge these 2 and finally have a central tech documentation for whole wikimedia project
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Petr Bena benapetr@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
this is a second time I am opening this - last time we decided to merge wikitech and labsconsole to make a documentation base for developers and operation engineers (at least those working at labs - I consider operation of bots and such services operation as well).
Since then, not much has happened. Me and Thehelpfulone were working on some preparation for merge, by indexing some uncategorized pages on wikitech, and flagging what can be safely removed (by leaving it on wikitech and not merging at all).
Can we move forward in this? What needs to be done to merge these 2 and finally have a central tech documentation for whole wikimedia project
Well, we enabled transwiki importing on labsconsole from wikitech (see https://labsconsole.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Import). I don't see any reason we couldn't start importing things.
-Chad
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote:
Well, we enabled transwiki importing on labsconsole from wikitech (see https://labsconsole.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Import). I don't see any reason we couldn't start importing things.
Being someone who often uses wikitech and almost never uses labsconsole, it doesn't make sense to me why we'd make a documentation space whose scope is ostensibly just Labs the hub for everything. What's the rationale?
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Steven Walling steven.walling@gmail.comwrote:
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote:
Well, we enabled transwiki importing on labsconsole from wikitech (see https://labsconsole.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Import). I don't see any reason we couldn't start importing things.
Being someone who often uses wikitech and almost never uses labsconsole, it doesn't make sense to me why we'd make a documentation space whose scope is ostensibly just Labs the hub for everything. What's the rationale?
First, we'd be merging them and renaming labsconsole to wikitech. Second, it's absurd to have operations documentation spread across two places, and wikitech is almost solely operations documentation. Third, it's easier to create an account on labsconsole, so people can actually edit the docs. Fourth, someone actually maintains the labsconsole wiki. Fifth, it actually makes more sense to host things like project documentation on wikitech than it does to host it on mediawiki.org, but it's too hard for folks to edit wikitech (see #3). By using labsconsole we could also move the project documentation there as well. Sixth, we have too many wikis.
- Ryan
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Ryan Lane rlane32@gmail.com wrote:
First, we'd be merging them and renaming labsconsole to wikitech. Second, it's absurd to have operations documentation spread across two places, and wikitech is almost solely operations documentation. Third, it's easier to create an account on labsconsole, so people can actually edit the docs. Fourth, someone actually maintains the labsconsole wiki. Fifth, it actually makes more sense to host things like project documentation on wikitech than it does to host it on mediawiki.org, but it's too hard for folks to edit wikitech (see #3). By using labsconsole we could also move the project documentation there as well. Sixth, we have too many wikis.
That all sounds reasonable. Thanks for the explanation!
Steven
Le 06/02/13 20:39, Petr Bena a écrit :
Hi,
this is a second time I am opening this - last time we decided to merge wikitech and labsconsole to make a documentation base for developers and operation engineers (at least those working at labs - I consider operation of bots and such services operation as well).
<snip>
I will be glad to help on this! Make sure to keep the history by importing the articles :-]
Trivia: did you know we used to have three squids in Paris? My phone is more powerful than the hardware that was setup there :)
https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Lopar_cluster
Everyone knows your phone is more powerful than half of production cluster, but now back to the business
We should make a structure for this new documentation base we are going to create, I think beside of categories, they might be some spaces at least Documentation: or something like that, where we could put stuff, and it should be divided to:
Wikimedia operation (what is now mostly on wikitech) - cluster a -- server 1 -- server 2 etc - cluster b... ...
Wikimedia labs - project A -- instance A-1 -- instance A-2 ...
Wikimedia bots - bot A -- developer docs (for devs) -- operation docs (for ops) -- user manuals (for end users)
Wikimedia tools - tool A -- developer docs (for devs) -- operation docs (for ops) -- user manuals (for end users)
other stuff
this is my proposal, of course it could be done in a different way but we should make a final decision before we start importing stuff or we create a mess
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Antoine Musso hashar+wmf@free.fr wrote:
Le 06/02/13 20:39, Petr Bena a écrit :
Hi,
this is a second time I am opening this - last time we decided to merge wikitech and labsconsole to make a documentation base for developers and operation engineers (at least those working at labs - I consider
operation
of bots and such services operation as well).
<snip>
I will be glad to help on this! Make sure to keep the history by importing the articles :-]
Trivia: did you know we used to have three squids in Paris? My phone is more powerful than the hardware that was setup there :)
https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Lopar_cluster-- Antoine "hashar" Musso
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Petr Bena benapetr@gmail.com wrote:
Everyone knows your phone is more powerful than half of production cluster, but now back to the business
We should make a structure for this new documentation base we are going to create, I think beside of categories, they might be some spaces at least Documentation: or something like that, where we could put stuff, and it should be divided to:
Wikimedia operation (what is now mostly on wikitech)
- cluster a
-- server 1 -- server 2 etc
- cluster b...
...
I'm in favor of just not importing the server docs. There may be a couple of ops folks this don't agree with me here, though.
Wikimedia labs
- project A
-- instance A-1 -- instance A-2 ...
I'm in favor of heavily refactoring the project pages. They haven't really had much love since they were introduced. Can you give more of an idea of how this would work?
At minimum I'd like to move the projects out of the "Nova_Resource" namespace.
Wikimedia bots
- bot A
-- developer docs (for devs) -- operation docs (for ops) -- user manuals (for end users)
Wikimedia tools
- tool A
-- developer docs (for devs) -- operation docs (for ops) -- user manuals (for end users)
other stuff
this is my proposal, of course it could be done in a different way but we should make a final decision before we start importing stuff or we create a mess
Documenting tools and bots this way seems sane to me.
BTW, for all of this, are you describing pages with subsections, or lots of subpages?
- Ryan
I think subsections are fine as long as they are small, for long pages, it would be better to have it as subpage.
But TBH I would prefer the subpages everywhere, you can always create some index page that would include the subpages to subsections.
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Ryan Lane rlane32@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Petr Bena benapetr@gmail.com wrote:
Everyone knows your phone is more powerful than half of production
cluster,
but now back to the business
We should make a structure for this new documentation base we are going
to
create, I think beside of categories, they might be some spaces at least Documentation: or something like that, where we could put stuff, and it should be divided to:
Wikimedia operation (what is now mostly on wikitech)
- cluster a
-- server 1 -- server 2 etc
- cluster b...
...
I'm in favor of just not importing the server docs. There may be a couple of ops folks this don't agree with me here, though.
Wikimedia labs
- project A
-- instance A-1 -- instance A-2 ...
I'm in favor of heavily refactoring the project pages. They haven't really had much love since they were introduced. Can you give more of an idea of how this would work?
At minimum I'd like to move the projects out of the "Nova_Resource" namespace.
Wikimedia bots
- bot A
-- developer docs (for devs) -- operation docs (for ops) -- user manuals (for end users)
Wikimedia tools
- tool A
-- developer docs (for devs) -- operation docs (for ops) -- user manuals (for end users)
other stuff
this is my proposal, of course it could be done in a different way but we should make a final decision before we start importing stuff or we
create a
mess
Documenting tools and bots this way seems sane to me.
BTW, for all of this, are you describing pages with subsections, or lots of subpages?
- Ryan
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org