Woulnd't it be better to have a set-up where all updates to the codebase of the English Wikipedia are (semi-)automatically propagated to all Wikipedias that use the same codebase? If not I fear that the non-English Wikipedias will keep on lagging behind on the bug fixes or new features such the enhanced recent changes page or subtle (or not so subtle) changes in the markup language, or whatever changes are yet to come. Making the updates automatic would also ensure that all future changes in the Wikipedia are internationalization aware, because if they're not the bug reports will start coming in from the non-English Wikpedias.
I'm inclined to think that if a particular community isn't large enough to come up with a developer to take care of its own needs, then it /should/ be left behind. UseMod wiki is a fine piece of software for a small level of activity, and if a group never outgrows it, I don't see any reason for me to waste time and effort on them. The German, Spanish, and Polish guys are on the ball and won't be a problem. But I don't plan to make much effort on behalf of the others unless they can come up with someone from among their own ranks with the energy and skills necessary to take care of themselves.
On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 09:47:34AM -0700, lcrocker@nupedia.com wrote:
Woulnd't it be better to have a set-up where all updates to the codebase of the English Wikipedia are (semi-)automatically propagated to all Wikipedias that use the same codebase? [...]
I'm inclined to think that if a particular community isn't large enough to come up with a developer to take care of its own needs, then it /should/ be left behind. UseMod wiki is a fine piece of software for a small level of activity, and if a group never outgrows it, I don't see any reason for me to waste time and effort on them.
Just for clarity, I was only talking about "all Wikipedias that use the same codebase". What I'm concerned about is that those that will move to the Phase III script will also stay in sync in the future. Also note that I wrote "semi-automatic"; I realize that updates that involve running scripts on the database and/or changing the database schema should not be automated. But at least the updates that involve only updating the common scripts should be made as easy as possible. I would suggest that we put the local scripts and common scripts into separate directories.
The German, Spanish, and Polish guys are on the ball and won't be a problem.
Hmm, that reminds me, perhaps I should get a bit more involved with the Dutch Wikipedia. :-)
But are you really sure there will be no problems? What I am afraid of is that local developers start fixing bugs in the common part of the code. What happens if you don't agree with those fixes? Or what if one of your updates to the common part is going to break something on their Wikipedia? Are they then going to have to fix this locally or should they stick to the previous version until you have fixed the problem or approved their fix? Can they depend on you for this? Apologies if that sounds insulting but from their point of view that may not be so obvious.
Perhaps I'm only stating the obvious here, but I would suggest the following guidelines: - Local developers can make always updates in local parts of the code, for updates in the common part of the code they should ask Lee's permisson. - When a new version of the code is installed for the English Wikipedia then this should be announced (on Wikitech-l) and then installed on local Wikipedias by the local developers as soon as possible. - Local developers are responsible for putting local bug-reports on something in the common code in the Sourceforge bugtracker.
-- Jan Hidders
For those wikipedias that /should/ be using the same codebase, it seems reasonable to me that they should have all of the scripts symlinked to the scripts of the main wikipedia. Then, any configurable variables could be exported by Apache as ENV variables. By doing this, you avoid running a script to update things, a person doesn't have to update them manually, and all of the apropriate wikipedias will be running the same software...
Just a thought...
Jason
Jan Hidders wrote:
On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 09:47:34AM -0700, lcrocker@nupedia.com wrote:
Woulnd't it be better to have a set-up where all updates to the codebase of the English Wikipedia are (semi-)automatically propagated to all Wikipedias that use the same codebase? [...]
I'm inclined to think that if a particular community isn't large enough to come up with a developer to take care of its own needs, then it /should/ be left behind. UseMod wiki is a fine piece of software for a small level of activity, and if a group never outgrows it, I don't see any reason for me to waste time and effort on them.
Just for clarity, I was only talking about "all Wikipedias that use the same codebase". What I'm concerned about is that those that will move to the Phase III script will also stay in sync in the future. Also note that I wrote "semi-automatic"; I realize that updates that involve running scripts on the database and/or changing the database schema should not be automated. But at least the updates that involve only updating the common scripts should be made as easy as possible. I would suggest that we put the local scripts and common scripts into separate directories.
The German, Spanish, and Polish guys are on the ball and won't be a problem.
Hmm, that reminds me, perhaps I should get a bit more involved with the Dutch Wikipedia. :-)
But are you really sure there will be no problems? What I am afraid of is that local developers start fixing bugs in the common part of the code. What happens if you don't agree with those fixes? Or what if one of your updates to the common part is going to break something on their Wikipedia? Are they then going to have to fix this locally or should they stick to the previous version until you have fixed the problem or approved their fix? Can they depend on you for this? Apologies if that sounds insulting but from their point of view that may not be so obvious.
Perhaps I'm only stating the obvious here, but I would suggest the following guidelines:
- Local developers can make always updates in local parts of the code, for updates in the common part of the code they should ask Lee's permisson.
- When a new version of the code is installed for the English Wikipedia then this should be announced (on Wikitech-l) and then installed on local Wikipedias by the local developers as soon as possible.
- Local developers are responsible for putting local bug-reports on something in the common code in the Sourceforge bugtracker.
-- Jan Hidders _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@ross.bomis.com http://ross.bomis.com/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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