Anthony DiPierro wrote:
Right. It's not perfect. Just better. At least if someone is lazy and doesn't attribute something and then someone else catches them, it can be fixed. If we added a "references" field to the edit page, even if it was optional, the number of attributions would probably increase even more. The field would be unformatted, so someone could of course type "I just knew it" or "copied from some website" or even "poop" for their reference, but it'd be one more thing to look into if someone put their reference as "Wikipedia".
I put forward an idea a while ago which people weren't too keen on, but I think it's time for it to be presented again: when a new article is created, prefill it with text. e.g.
A '''pagetitle''' is ... (say what the article is about, with a bit of introductory detail)
==More detail==
(If there's more to say about it, put in sections with == == on the name of each section)
==See also==
==References== * (List the sources you used in writing this article) * *
==External links== * (List the few most relevant external web pages on the subject (home pages, etc) that you know of)
While this would just be wikitext, and any experienced Wikipedia regular could of course format an article how they liked, new editors would be presented clearly with what we expect from a new article.
With this in place, I think we could even allow anons to create articles again on en:. They certainly wouldn't just put "so what do you want me to type?"
I'm not sure if Mediawiki has new article prefill as yet, but it can't be that hard. The prefill wikitext could even be a Mediawiki: space message.
(Example of a new article I created today: [[XCB]]. I have something like the above template in my head when I write an article.)
Now, adding a references section would preferably add a column to a database table. Whether or not that would require scheduled downtime, I don't know.
Sounds like much more work than the above. The above would set out that we do expect references and so on. Ultimately, I think guiding new editors in how to do the right thing would work better than trying to force a given article format in the database.
- d.
[cc: to wikitech-l]
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Moin,
On Friday 09 December 2005 20:05, David Gerard wrote:
Anthony DiPierro wrote:
Right. It's not perfect. Just better. At least if someone is lazy and doesn't attribute something and then someone else catches them, it can be fixed. If we added a "references" field to the edit page, even if it was optional, the number of attributions would probably increase even more. The field would be unformatted, so someone could of course type "I just knew it" or "copied from some website" or even "poop" for their reference, but it'd be one more thing to look into if someone put their reference as "Wikipedia".
I put forward an idea a while ago which people weren't too keen on, but I think it's time for it to be presented again: when a new article is created, prefill it with text. e.g.
[snipa bit]
- From my experience with people very new to wikis, I also set up a new link in the menu ala "Create new article". When clicked it asks about the title, and then bounces them back to the wiki, the edit box open and a text similar to yours already filled in.
People view this as _much_ easier than mucking about with the URL, putting a link in somewhere else, and/or starting with an empty edit box.
The most FAQ was "How do I start a new article?" followed by "And why is this so complicated?", closely followed by "How do I add a headline again?"
Especially in-frequent contributors tend to forget these things very quick and since the computer should help the humans and not vice versa, I finally patched my local Mediawiki installation to fix this issue. Everyone's been happy since :)
Best wishes,
Tels
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Tels wrote:
- From my experience with people very new to wikis, I also set up a new link
in the menu ala "Create new article". When clicked it asks about the title, and then bounces them back to the wiki, the edit box open and a text similar to yours already filled in. People view this as _much_ easier than mucking about with the URL, putting a link in somewhere else, and/or starting with an empty edit box.
Yep!
The most FAQ was "How do I start a new article?" followed by "And why is this so complicated?", closely followed by "How do I add a headline again?"
That's specifically why I put how to make a section in that in the example ;-)
I did a radio interview on Wikipedia yesterday. I actually tried to lure casual editors to feel free to edit.
It'd be nice if anon contributors could start articles again. If regulars don't like getting a template, perhaps it could be on just for anon editors.
Especially in-frequent contributors tend to forget these things very quick and since the computer should help the humans and not vice versa, I finally patched my local Mediawiki installation to fix this issue. Everyone's been happy since :)
Please submit the patch! (Is there a bug for this yet?)
- d.
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Moin David,
On Friday 09 December 2005 21:58, David Gerard wrote:
Tels wrote:
[snipabit]
Yep!
The most FAQ was "How do I start a new article?" followed by "And why is this so complicated?", closely followed by "How do I add a headline again?"
That's specifically why I put how to make a section in that in the example ;-)
I did a radio interview on Wikipedia yesterday. I actually tried to lure casual editors to feel free to edit.
It'd be nice if anon contributors could start articles again. If regulars don't like getting a template, perhaps it could be on just for anon editors.
I think anon users rights have nothing to do with this issue of whether the edit box should be pre-filled or not, and whether it should be easier to create new articles :)
(IMHO anon edits should be disallowed entirely, but this is just my private opinion which doesn't carry much weight and/or might be wrong/impractical/impolite etc :)
Especially in-frequent contributors tend to forget these things very quick and since the computer should help the humans and not vice versa, I finally patched my local Mediawiki installation to fix this issue. Everyone's been happy since :)
Please submit the patch! (Is there a bug for this yet?)
Actually, I just added one new link to the toolbox on the left, which goes to a HTML page with a form entry on a webserver, which bounces the user back to the wiki. I am sure it is possible to create a specialpage (Specialpages:NewArticle?) that does the same, but the external form was easier for me.
The disadvantage of my solution is that you need to be already logged in for the form to work, otherwise you get the "please login first" message, and since clicking "log me in" on that page loses the "where you came from" (which is a bug), the user will then be on the main page.
Best wishes,
Tels
- -- Signed on Fri Dec 9 23:46:06 2005 with key 0x93B84C15. Visit my photo gallery at http://bloodgate.com/photos/ PGP key on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or per email.
'Wie Ludger Lügenboldt, Sprecher der Interessengemeinschaft Förderer der Prostitution International (I.F.P.I.) jetzt bekannt gab, entstehen der Zuhälterbrache jährlich Milliardenverluste durch kostenfreien Sex. "Bestimmt hätten unsere Mädels im Jahr 2003 alleine in Deutschland 2000 Millionen Quickies mehr verkaufen können, wenn die Leute nicht immer mehr privat rumvögeln würden. Der uns entstandene Schaden beläuft sich auf mindestens 100000000000 Euro." Schuld sei nach Angaben Lügenboldts das Internet: "Flirtportale und Singlewebsites mit Kontaktbörsen machen unser Geschäft kaputt. Amateure rauben uns unserer Geschäftsgrundlagen." Zehntausende von Arbeitsplätzen in Deutschland seien gefährdet, die überdies gerade geringer qualifizieren jungen Frauen ein Einkommen sicherten. Die I.F.P.I. fordert den Gesetzgeber auf, diesem Treiben umgehend Schranken zu setzen.' MI-Boykotteur at 2004-05-07 at http://tinyurl.com/35qjo
Tels:
Actually, I just added one new link to the toolbox on the left, which goes to a HTML page with a form entry on a webserver, which bounces the user back to the wiki. I am sure it is possible to create a specialpage (Specialpages:NewArticle?) that does the same, but the external form was easier for me.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Inputbox
This has been active on the Wikimedia wikis for quite a while. I originally created it for Wikinews, but it's used in many different places now. It supports preloading text.
Erik
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Moin,
On Saturday 10 December 2005 02:01, Erik Moeller wrote:
Tels:
Actually, I just added one new link to the toolbox on the left, which goes to a HTML page with a form entry on a webserver, which bounces the user back to the wiki. I am sure it is possible to create a specialpage (Specialpages:NewArticle?) that does the same, but the external form was easier for me.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Inputbox
This has been active on the Wikimedia wikis for quite a while. I originally created it for Wikinews, but it's used in many different places now. It supports preloading text.
Wow, saves me the work of creating it :) Thanx a lot,
Tels
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