On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this and help get the software translated.
This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi, ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
Yours, -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
jforrester@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
Hi James,
Great news!
Is the already given feedback publicly available? If yes, where.
Thank you.
Claudia
On Apr 25, 2013, at 7:09 PM, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this and help get the software translated.
This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi, ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
Yours,
James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
jforrester@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
I'm pretty sure the feedback is stored nowhere...
I just made a test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzt_2CBfTNI
You can share your feedback on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report problem' is not working for me.
Lukas
Am Do 25.04.2013 19:27, schrieb Claudia Müller-Birn:
Hi James,
Great news!
Is the already given feedback publicly available? If yes, where.
Thank you.
Claudia
On Apr 25, 2013, at 7:09 PM, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this and help get the software translated.
This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi, ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
Yours,
James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
jforrester@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Lukas Benedix benedix@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote:
... You can share your feedback on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report problem' is not working for me.
You can report it straight into Bugzilla, As mentioned at the top of that page. Here is the direct link https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=VisualEditor&component=General
On Apr 26, 2013, at 4:42 PM, K. Peachey p858snake@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Lukas Benedix benedix@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote:
... You can share your feedback on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report problem' is not working for me.
You can report it straight into Bugzilla, As mentioned at the top of that page. Here is the direct link https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=VisualEditor&component=General
Well, that is correct. But my major concern are the non-tech-users and getting their opinion on the visual editor.
As a non-experienced user I might click the link… and then I most likely have to create an account. Even though I take the time doing so, I have to understand the various drop-down menus in Bugzilla - challenging. I guess, I would be stressed out and give up before sending the feedback, which is a pity. Don't get me wrong, I think the visual editor is great. I am just thinking aloud and wondering about this and that...
Anyway, Bugzilla works great for me :)
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I'm not a non-tech-user, but I don't like using bugzilla. here is the new bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/47755
btw:
While testing the "black-hole" feedback-mechanism I found another issue with VisualEditor.
There are lines marked as changed in the diff that I never touched: http://lbenedix.monoceres.uberspace.de/screenshots/tlv5b64zcj_(2013-04-26_23... http://lbenedix.monoceres.uberspace.de/screenshots/tlv5b64zcj_%282013-04-26_23.41.46%29.png
Is this a (known) bug?
LB
Am Fr 26.04.2013 20:49, schrieb Claudia Müller-Birn:
On Apr 26, 2013, at 4:42 PM, K. Peachey p858snake@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Lukas Benedix benedix@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote:
... You can share your feedback on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report problem' is not working for me.
You can report it straight into Bugzilla, As mentioned at the top of that page. Here is the direct link https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=VisualEditor&component=General
Well, that is correct. But my major concern are the non-tech-users and getting their opinion on the visual editor.
As a non-experienced user I might click the link… and then I most likely have to create an account. Even though I take the time doing so, I have to understand the various drop-down menus in Bugzilla - challenging. I guess, I would be stressed out and give up before sending the feedback, which is a pity. Don't get me wrong, I think the visual editor is great. I am just thinking aloud and wondering about this and that...
Anyway, Bugzilla works great for me :)
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On Apr 27, 2013, at 12:05 AM, Lukas Benedix benedix@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote:
I'm not a non-tech-user, but I don't like using bugzilla. here is the new bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/47755
btw:
While testing the "black-hole" feedback-mechanism I found another issue with VisualEditor.
There are lines marked as changed in the diff that I never touched: http://lbenedix.monoceres.uberspace.de/screenshots/tlv5b64zcj_(2013-04-26_23... http://lbenedix.monoceres.uberspace.de/screenshots/tlv5b64zcj_%282013-04-26_23.41.46%29.png
Is this a (known) bug?
It is :) Just read the pop up that appears when editing the page. clmb
LB
Am Fr 26.04.2013 20:49, schrieb Claudia Müller-Birn:
On Apr 26, 2013, at 4:42 PM, K. Peachey p858snake@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Lukas Benedix benedix@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote:
... You can share your feedback on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report problem' is not working for me.
You can report it straight into Bugzilla, As mentioned at the top of that page. Here is the direct link https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=VisualEditor&component=General
Well, that is correct. But my major concern are the non-tech-users and getting their opinion on the visual editor.
As a non-experienced user I might click the link… and then I most likely have to create an account. Even though I take the time doing so, I have to understand the various drop-down menus in Bugzilla - challenging. I guess, I would be stressed out and give up before sending the feedback, which is a pity. Don't get me wrong, I think the visual editor is great. I am just thinking aloud and wondering about this and that...
Anyway, Bugzilla works great for me :)
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Lukas Benedix benedix@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote:
I'm not a non-tech-user, but I don't like using bugzilla. here is the new bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/47755
Per my earlier post, I've closed that bug as INVALID (as feedback collection does actually work), with a reference to the bug for making it less sketchy.
There are lines marked as changed in the diff that I never touched: http://lbenedix.monoceres.uberspace.de/screenshots/tlv5b64zcj_(2013-04-26_23... http://lbenedix.monoceres.uberspace.de/screenshots/tlv5b64zcj_%282013-04-26_23.41.46%29.png
Is this a (known) bug?
Not that I'm aware of. Looks like a bug in reference serialization. Could you tell me which page you were editing there?
Roan
On 26 April 2013 15:42, K. Peachey p858snake@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Lukas Benedix benedix@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote:
You can share your feedback on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report problem' is not working for me.
You can report it straight into Bugzilla, As mentioned at the top of that page. Here is the direct link https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=VisualEditor&component=General
That doesn't quite address the issue: surely it's a problem if it's claiming to take feedback but the feedback is going nowhere.
(I've been trying it and flagging seriously buggy behaviour in said comment form, and would be most annoyed to find it was just being flushed.)
- d.
On 27 April 2013 09:25, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 April 2013 15:42, K. Peachey p858snake@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Lukas Benedix benedix@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote:
You can share your feedback on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report problem' is not working for me.
You can report it straight into Bugzilla, As mentioned at the top of that page. Here is the direct link https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=VisualEditor&component=General
That doesn't quite address the issue: surely it's a problem if it's claiming to take feedback but the feedback is going nowhere. (I've been trying it and flagging seriously buggy behaviour in said comment form, and would be most annoyed to find it was just being flushed.)
Could someone please clarify:
When you use the visual editor, and it makes weird changes in the diff, and you click "there's a problem" and note this in the feedback form - where does this end up? Does anyone look at it?
- d.
On 04/29/2013 03:34 PM, David Gerard wrote:
On 27 April 2013 09:25, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote: ...
That doesn't quite address the issue: surely it's a problem if it's claiming to take feedback but the feedback is going nowhere. (I've been trying it and flagging seriously buggy behaviour in said comment form, and would be most annoyed to find it was just being flushed.)
Could someone please clarify:
When you use the visual editor, and it makes weird changes in the diff, and you click "there's a problem" and note this in the feedback form - where does this end up? Does anyone look at it?
Hi David,
As Roan clarified in his emails on this thread, the debugging data collected is sent to the Parsoid server and is stored there. We (the Parsoid team) do look at it and use that for debugging and fixing bugs.
Thanks, Subbu.
On 29 April 2013 12:01, Subramanya Sastry ssastry@wikimedia.org wrote:
As Roan clarified in his emails on this thread, the debugging data collected is sent to the Parsoid server and is stored there. We (the Parsoid team) do look at it and use that for debugging and fixing bugs.
Cool, thank you :-) Every time I've used it lately, it's messing with the <ref> tags. Just now I literally moved a comma and it decided messing with the <ref> tags would be just the thing to do ...
- d.
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 4:36 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Cool, thank you :-) Every time I've used it lately, it's messing with the <ref> tags. Just now I literally moved a comma and it decided messing with the <ref> tags would be just the thing to do ...
Yeah, sorry about that :( . There was a bug where Parsoid duplicated <ref> tags; Lukas's screenshot showed that too. The Parsoid team deployed a fix for this just now, so the duplication bug should be fixed now. There are rumors of other issues with <ref> tags, we're looking into those still.
Roan
Le 26/04/13 15:23, Lukas Benedix a écrit :
I just made a test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzt_2CBfTNI
Seems the VisualEditor feedback is sent to parsoid.wmflabs.org which is most probably wrong.
On 26 April 2013 06:23, Lukas Benedix benedix@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote:
I'm pretty sure the feedback is stored nowhere...
I just made a test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzt_2CBfTNI
You can share your feedback on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report problem' is not working for me.
The "report a problem" link sends the report privately to a Parsoid server. From your video, it appears that the API call to do so failed - could you file a Bugzilla item with more details so we can investigate?
The "leave feedback" link is the normal MediaWiki core tool that posts the contents of your feedback to the bottom of a target local wiki page as a new section.
J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
jforrester@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 9:42 AM, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
The "report a problem" link sends the report privately to a Parsoid server. From your video, it appears that the API call to do so failed
- could you file a Bugzilla item with more details so we can
investigate?
It's sending information to parsoid.wmflabs.org, and for now that's intended behavior. We may change the way this information is collected later, but for now it lives on labs, where the Parsoid developers collect and analyze the information.
Even though Lukas's video shows a failed XHR request in the console, the data was most likely submitted successfully. This is because we use cross-domain AJAX to POST the data, and jQuery's attempt to read the response (which is empty anyway) is blocked because of same-origin restrictions, which causes the error you're seeing. At this point the information has already been submitted, though, so the error is a red herring. This behavior is clearly suboptimal and misleading, but it's a minor issue at this point. It's tracked as https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42974 .
Roan
The feedback tool ("Leave feedback" or "Rückmeldungen hinterlassen") posts your feedback to a page on-wiki (for dewiki, this was https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback but has now been moved to https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/R%C3%BCckmeldungen this morning). The Parsoid bug tool ("Something is wrong" or "Etwas ist schief gelaufen") posts privately to a server so we can work out what went wrong.
J.
On 25 April 2013 10:27, Claudia Müller-Birn clmb@inf.fu-berlin.de wrote:
Hi James,
Great news!
Is the already given feedback publicly available? If yes, where.
Thank you.
Claudia
On Apr 25, 2013, at 7:09 PM, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this and help get the software translated.
This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi, ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
Yours,
James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
jforrester@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Hi James,
Thanks for clarifying.
I am just wondering why the two feedback mechanisms send to different targets which I personally find a bit confusing. What has been the decision behind it?
And why is the "Something is wrong" or "Etwas ist schief gelaufen" a privately sent feedback? Wouldn't be great to have here an open process and not sending the feedback to a black hole?
An additionally question, what would be if the German community decides/wishes/asks for having a slightly different visual editor as for example the English Wikipedia community. Would that be possible at all? I could not find any possibilities to adapt the editor to the local needs on the extension page… just out of curiosity…
Claudia
On Apr 26, 2013, at 6:51 PM, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
The feedback tool ("Leave feedback" or "Rückmeldungen hinterlassen") posts your feedback to a page on-wiki (for dewiki, this was https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback but has now been moved to https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/R%C3%BCckmeldungen this morning). The Parsoid bug tool ("Something is wrong" or "Etwas ist schief gelaufen") posts privately to a server so we can work out what went wrong.
J.
On 25 April 2013 10:27, Claudia Müller-Birn clmb@inf.fu-berlin.de wrote:
Hi James,
Great news!
Is the already given feedback publicly available? If yes, where.
Thank you.
Claudia
On Apr 25, 2013, at 7:09 PM, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this and help get the software translated.
This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi, ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
Yours,
James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
jforrester@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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-- James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
jforrester@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Claudia Müller-Birn clmb@inf.fu-berlin.de wrote:
Hi James,
Thanks for clarifying.
I am just wondering why the two feedback mechanisms send to different targets which I personally find a bit confusing. What has been the decision behind it?
They are different feedback mechanisms with different privacy expectations. The "Leave feedback" flow collects general, free-form feedback about the editor and posts it publicly. Only the text the user types into the form is collected and published. The "Something is wrong" flow is intended to collect data about cases where users see a diff they don't expect. It collects a lot of information to help us figure out what happened and why; this not only helps us find bugs, but it also collects the information we need to track it down and fix it. Because the information collected includes the text the user was attempting to save but apparently chose not to save, we treat it as private information.
So one flow collects general feedback and the text field is all we collect, whereas the other collects data about a specific failure and the text field just serves as a footnote on a lot of technical data we collect along with it and is narrowly focused on the specific problem at hand: what did the user do to trigger the bug. In the general feedback flow, we communicate to the user that what they submit will be public, and it's very easy to explain what will be public (the text they put into the field). In the bad diff report flow, the data we collect (editor contents with an unsubmitted edit, among other things) is a bit more privacy-sensitive and it's hard to explain to the user what we'll be collecting.
And why is the "Something is wrong" or "Etwas ist schief gelaufen" a privately sent feedback? Wouldn't be great to have here an open process and not sending the feedback to a black hole?
This flow is mostly for reporting bugs, and the form asks them to provide details about the specific bug they encountered rather than general feedback. These comments wouldn't be particularly useful without the associated debugging data. The debugging data isn't particularly interesting to the general public, only to developers (that's not an argument for why it shouldn't be public, just one for why it doesn't hurt too much that it's not public). We feel like it would be against the spirit if not the letter of the privacy policy to publish this data without telling the user what we're publishing (especially since unsaved editor contents are privacy-sensitive: there is no expectation they'll be published because they're unsaved). But it's also difficult to explain to the user what exactly it is that we would be publishing.
Contrary to the confusion and other reports on this thread, I can assure you that the data submitted through the "Report problem" interface isn't sent to a black hole. It's being collected by the Parsoid team, and they have in the recent past analyzed it and discovered bugs in both Parsoid and VE.
Roan
Dear Roan,
Thank you very much for your detailed explanations. I appreciate it very much.
Even though, I do not fully agree with all your design decisions (regarding two different feedback mechanisms), they are understandable from your position (as far as I can anticipate it).
Last comment on this, wouldn't be great to integrate both mechanisms in a way. I mean that the user can simply decide whether and when she wants to send some additional information (about the browser used etc.) by just selecting a checkbox (that explains the difference). So in every situation (before and after editing) the user can provide some feedback. The user can easily and understandable (at least I believe) decide about the extent of the feedback. Maybe is this (=my) feedback useful for the beta-testing-version :)
Claudia
On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:52 AM, Roan Kattouw roan.kattouw@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Claudia Müller-Birn clmb@inf.fu-berlin.de wrote:
Hi James,
Thanks for clarifying.
I am just wondering why the two feedback mechanisms send to different targets which I personally find a bit confusing. What has been the decision behind it?
They are different feedback mechanisms with different privacy expectations. The "Leave feedback" flow collects general, free-form feedback about the editor and posts it publicly. Only the text the user types into the form is collected and published. The "Something is wrong" flow is intended to collect data about cases where users see a diff they don't expect. It collects a lot of information to help us figure out what happened and why; this not only helps us find bugs, but it also collects the information we need to track it down and fix it. Because the information collected includes the text the user was attempting to save but apparently chose not to save, we treat it as private information.
So one flow collects general feedback and the text field is all we collect, whereas the other collects data about a specific failure and the text field just serves as a footnote on a lot of technical data we collect along with it and is narrowly focused on the specific problem at hand: what did the user do to trigger the bug. In the general feedback flow, we communicate to the user that what they submit will be public, and it's very easy to explain what will be public (the text they put into the field). In the bad diff report flow, the data we collect (editor contents with an unsubmitted edit, among other things) is a bit more privacy-sensitive and it's hard to explain to the user what we'll be collecting.
And why is the "Something is wrong" or "Etwas ist schief gelaufen" a privately sent feedback? Wouldn't be great to have here an open process and not sending the feedback to a black hole?
This flow is mostly for reporting bugs, and the form asks them to provide details about the specific bug they encountered rather than general feedback. These comments wouldn't be particularly useful without the associated debugging data. The debugging data isn't particularly interesting to the general public, only to developers (that's not an argument for why it shouldn't be public, just one for why it doesn't hurt too much that it's not public). We feel like it would be against the spirit if not the letter of the privacy policy to publish this data without telling the user what we're publishing (especially since unsaved editor contents are privacy-sensitive: there is no expectation they'll be published because they're unsaved). But it's also difficult to explain to the user what exactly it is that we would be publishing.
Contrary to the confusion and other reports on this thread, I can assure you that the data submitted through the "Report problem" interface isn't sent to a black hole. It's being collected by the Parsoid team, and they have in the recent past analyzed it and discovered bugs in both Parsoid and VE.
Roan
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On 30 April 2013 12:30, Claudia Müller-Birn clmb@inf.fu-berlin.de wrote:
Dear Roan,
Thank you very much for your detailed explanations. I appreciate it very much.
Even though, I do not fully agree with all your design decisions (regarding two different feedback mechanisms), they are understandable from your position (as far as I can anticipate it).
Last comment on this, wouldn't be great to integrate both mechanisms in a way. I mean that the user can simply decide whether and when she wants to send some additional information (about the browser used etc.) by just selecting a checkbox (that explains the difference). So in every situation (before and after editing) the user can provide some feedback. The user can easily and understandable (at least I believe) decide about the extent of the feedback. Maybe is this (=my) feedback useful for the beta-testing-version :)
Thanks Claudia; we agree that having two feedback mechanisms is confusing, and we intend to remove the "something is wrong!" feedback link from within the diff quite soon (ahead of the beta version, certainly), once we are confident that Parsoid will never or very rarely corrupt pages on save. We should be able to take normal on-wiki feedback and bug reports alone as enough to debug what has gone wrong, and this will remove the source of confusion.
Yours,
Le 2013-04-25 19:09, James Forrester a écrit :
On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this and help get the software translated.
This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi, ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
In the french version, the label of the checkbox to activate it have to internal links to none-existant pages (red links). The wiki equivalent text is :
Activer VisualEditor (seulement dans les espaces de noms [[Wikipédia:Main namespace|principal]] et [[Espace de nom utilisateur|utilisateur]])
Otherwise I didn't test it yet, but thank you. :)
Yours,
James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
jforrester@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
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2013/4/26 Mathieu Stumpf psychoslave@culture-libre.org:
In the french version, the label of the checkbox to activate it have to internal links to none-existant pages (red links). The wiki equivalent text is :
Activer VisualEditor (seulement dans les espaces de noms [[Wikipédia:Main namespace|principal]] et [[Espace de nom utilisateur|utilisateur]])
That's because this message assumed the existence of these pages in the target wiki:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Main_namespace&redi... * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:User_namespace&redi...
The English Wikipedia has them, but many wikis don't. You can simply create them and write some documentation about namespaces. In the Hebrew Wikipedia I just redirected them both to the general help page about namespaces.
The currently defined names for French are [[Project:Espace de noms utilisateur]] and [[Project:Espace de noms principal]].
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Le 2013-04-25 19:09, James Forrester a écrit :
On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this and help get the software translated.
This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi, ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
I opted in, but I can't see anything else than the classical edit option. I tryed on severa pages I never visited before and also to refresh my browser cache, but steal no new option. Is there a URL param I could try to see if it at least it works this way?
It's currently disabled on IE<9 and Opera. You can test it on them by using the ?vewhitelist=1 parameter (but don't expect much). I'm currently working on Opera support myself (as a volunteer).
2013/4/26, Mathieu Stumpf psychoslave@culture-libre.org:
Le 2013-04-25 19:09, James Forrester a écrit :
On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this and help get the software translated.
This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi, ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
I opted in, but I can't see anything else than the classical edit option. I tryed on severa pages I never visited before and also to refresh my browser cache, but steal no new option. Is there a URL param I could try to see if it at least it works this way?
-- Association Culture-Libre http://www.culture-libre.org/
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Le 2013-04-26 14:19, Bartosz Dziewoński a écrit :
It's currently disabled on IE<9 and Opera. You can test it on them by using the ?vewhitelist=1 parameter (but don't expect much). I'm currently working on Opera support myself (as a volunteer).
I'm using firefex 8.0.1. It works with the parameter work around. By the way, is there some roadmap somewhere for this specific extension? It looks like there's not yet feature to edit tables and I would be interested to know what's planed on this subject.
2013/4/26, Mathieu Stumpf psychoslave@culture-libre.org:
Le 2013-04-25 19:09, James Forrester a écrit :
On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this and help get the software translated.
This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi, ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
I opted in, but I can't see anything else than the classical edit option. I tryed on severa pages I never visited before and also to refresh my browser cache, but steal no new option. Is there a URL param I could try to see if it at least it works this way?
-- Association Culture-Libre http://www.culture-libre.org/
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hoi, Why use such an old browser and why should anybody care if it works ... Current version of Firefox is 20.0.1 Thanks, Gerard
On 26 April 2013 14:52, Mathieu Stumpf psychoslave@culture-libre.orgwrote:
Le 2013-04-26 14:19, Bartosz Dziewoński a écrit :
It's currently disabled on IE<9 and Opera. You can test it on them by
using the ?vewhitelist=1 parameter (but don't expect much). I'm currently working on Opera support myself (as a volunteer).
I'm using firefex 8.0.1. It works with the parameter work around. By the way, is there some roadmap somewhere for this specific extension? It looks like there's not yet feature to edit tables and I would be interested to know what's planed on this subject.
2013/4/26, Mathieu Stumpf <psychoslave@culture-libre.org**>:
Le 2013-04-25 19:09, James Forrester a écrit :
On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this and help get the software translated.
This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi, ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
I opted in, but I can't see anything else than the classical edit option. I tryed on severa pages I never visited before and also to refresh my browser cache, but steal no new option. Is there a URL param I could try to see if it at least it works this way?
-- Association Culture-Libre http://www.culture-libre.org/
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Le 2013-04-26 17:17, Gerard Meijssen a écrit :
Hoi, Why use such an old browser and why should anybody care if it works ... Current version of Firefox is 20.0.1 Thanks, Gerard
Because that's the version which is installed on one of the workstation I use and for which I have no required privileges to install anything else. We should care because we care about all potential contributors, and we don't want to make discrimination based on gender, sexual orientation nor the browser available to them.
On 26 April 2013 14:52, Mathieu Stumpf psychoslave@culture-libre.orgwrote:
Le 2013-04-26 14:19, Bartosz Dziewoński a écrit :
It's currently disabled on IE<9 and Opera. You can test it on them by
using the ?vewhitelist=1 parameter (but don't expect much). I'm currently working on Opera support myself (as a volunteer).
I'm using firefex 8.0.1. It works with the parameter work around. By the way, is there some roadmap somewhere for this specific extension? It looks like there's not yet feature to edit tables and I would be interested to know what's planed on this subject.
2013/4/26, Mathieu Stumpf <psychoslave@culture-libre.org**>:
Le 2013-04-25 19:09, James Forrester a écrit :
On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this and help get the software translated.
This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi, ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
I opted in, but I can't see anything else than the classical edit option. I tryed on severa pages I never visited before and also to refresh my browser cache, but steal no new option. Is there a URL param I could try to see if it at least it works this way?
-- Association Culture-Libre http://www.culture-libre.org/
______________________________**_________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Association Culture-Libre http://www.culture-libre.org/
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Am Mo 29.04.2013 10:09, schrieb Mathieu Stumpf:
We should care because we care about all potential contributors, and we don't want to make discrimination based on gender, sexual orientation nor the browser available to them.
SCNR:
The VisualEditor is not working in IE6, which is used by 25%* of the chinese internet user…
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 14:52:22 +0200, Mathieu Stumpf psychoslave@culture-libre.org wrote:
I'm using firefex 8.0.1.
Only Firefox >= 11 is supported (but I have no idea why; I've just checked the source code to find out).
Here's the current full compatibility map for other browsers, if anyone's interested (it might change at any time):
{ msie: [['>=', 9]], firefox: [['>=', 11]], iceweasel: [['>=', 10]], safari: [['>=', 5]], chrome: [['>=', 19]], opera: false, netscape: false, blackberry: false }
("false" means all versions are blacklisted.)
On 26 April 2013 05:52, Mathieu Stumpf psychoslave@culture-libre.org wrote:
Le 2013-04-26 14:19, Bartosz Dziewoński a écrit :
It's currently disabled on IE<9 and Opera. You can test it on them by using the ?vewhitelist=1 parameter (but don't expect much). I'm currently working on Opera support myself (as a volunteer).
I'm using firefex 8.0.1. It works with the parameter work around.
Yes, it's enabled for MSIE 9+, Firefox 11+, Iceweasel 10+, Safari 5+ and Chrome 19+. If anyone wants to test against earlier versions of these browsers (or other ones) and can help identify what incompatibilities the browser has with standard HTML/JS and ways around them, we'd love to add more (like Matma Rex is doing - thanks!).
By the way, is there some roadmap somewhere for this specific extension? It looks like there's not yet feature to edit tables and I would be interested to know what's planed on this subject.
There's notes on what does and doesn't work in the Quarterly Review slides https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:VisualEditor-Parsoid_-_2012-13_Q3_quarte... - slide 9 has what work for the alpha, and slide 12 has what we expect won't work by the beta.
J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
jforrester@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
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