Hello,
I am new at wikitech-l, so I dont know what is said before to the theme "sinle-sign-on" (yes I know I could read the archive and I tried, but it is too long for today :-)...) but here are some thoughts from me...
If I`ve got it, we have 3 main problems:
1. There could exists users on different lang-WPs with the same name. 2. There is no (good) way to find out automatically which accounds with the same name in different lang-WPs belong to different persons and which belong to the one person. 3. We have actually no good solution for the first problem but as long as we wait the problem gets larger.
So we should think first about to solve the third problem. This should be very easy since we just have to create a new account in a new database for each account in the old databases. Each account gets a new ID, the old name, says from which lang-WP it is and which ID belongs to it there (and all the other stuff belonging to the account).
If someone creates a new account, he/she has to take a name which is not used in the new DB. A new account creates a new entry in the new database without pointing to an lang-WP and an ID.
The lang-WPs have to use the new user-DB (and before that should be translated to this, meaning the IDs has to be changed in the right way).
If this is done, the old user-dbs can be thrown away. (But we still need the rows with the pointers to the old lang-WPs and the corresponding ID in the new database as I will explain below.)
Thus we have the following situation: we have one single new user-database, where it is allowed just for old uses to have accounts with the same name like other users (or have more as one account with the same name).
These users have one big problem, they have to use there new ID to log in, so they have a reason to solve there name-conflicts as described below.
Now we have everything we wanted and just the small name-conflict-problem described above.
In the second step we have time to solve the problem with the names.
We could send automatically E-Mails to all accounts which have no unique name (if the adresses are known) telling them which (new) IDs belong to the old accounts (by telling them from which lang-WP there are, we even could tell them there old ID: Ahh, for this we still need the informations!) and invite them to merge the accounts which belongs to them! (Of course this needs a special formular, where you have to enter the new IDs, and the old (and new) password for each ID. Merging accounts could be a new feature of course).
We even could give them (and all others) the possibility to change there name (which also should be a new feature), but of course just to unique names which does not exist. This feature is somehow special, since for several reasons the old name should be save for a longer time, i.e. it should not be allowed for other persons to choose it for this time (but this is another topic).
Thus the new user-database can be cleaned up to a better level. If there would be users which does not want to change there name to solve the name-conflict with other persons they can mark there account(s) as "under conflict". This may will be the hard problems later.
After a while each account, whichs is not marked as "under conflict", but has a name-conflict with an other account is changed automatically to a new name (gets a additional number in the end of it...).
This may solves some "under-conflict"-accounts since may all other accounts with the same name are may changed, cause they was not marked as "under-conflict".
What to do with the rest could be discussed later...
Regards Ivo Köthnig
On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 04:34:35PM +0100, Ivo Köthnig wrote:
- There is no (good) way to find out automatically which accounds with the same name in different lang-WPs belong to different persons and which belong to the one person.
EMAIL !!!
Am Donnerstag, 15. Januar 2004 18:25 schrieb Thomas R. Koll:
On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 04:34:35PM +0100, Ivo Köthnig wrote:
- There is no (good) way to find out automatically which accounds with
the same name in different lang-WPs belong to different persons and which belong to the one person.
EMAIL !!!
I used different email-adresses and as I know you don't have to give one. Of course you can manage some problematic cases, but surly not all...
Regards Ivo Köthnig
Ivo wrote:
Hello,
I am new at wikitech-l, so I dont know what is said before to the theme "sinle-sign-on" (yes I know I could read the archive and I tried, but it is too long for today :-)...) but here are some thoughts from me...
I've always supported the idea of a single "sign-on", but would be highly sceptical of the single "sing-on" suggested in the title. Many of us may not have the vocal skills to enable us to continue with Wikipedia. :-)
If I`ve got it, we have 3 main problems:
- There could exists users on different lang-WPs with the same name.
- There is no (good) way to find out automatically which accounds with the
same name in different lang-WPs belong to different persons and which belong to the one person. 3. We have actually no good solution for the first problem but as long as we wait the problem gets larger.
So we should think first about to solve the third problem.
Certainly, one begins with new users and preventing them from choosing a name which duplicates anything already being used in any of the projects. All existing unambiguous names can also be moved immediately.
Ec
Am Donnerstag, 15. Januar 2004 19:09 schrieb Ray Saintonge:
Ivo wrote:
Hello,
I am new at wikitech-l, so I dont know what is said before to the theme "sinle-sign-on" (yes I know I could read the archive and I tried, but it is too long for today :-)...) but here are some thoughts from me...
I've always supported the idea of a single "sign-on", but would be highly sceptical of the single "sing-on" suggested in the title. Many of us may not have the vocal skills to enable us to continue with Wikipedia. :-)
Your right, this would disqualify me too... :-)
On Jan 15, 2004, at 1:09 PM, Ray Saintonge wrote:
Certainly, one begins with new users and preventing them from choosing a name which duplicates anything already being used in any of the projects. All existing unambiguous names can also be moved immediately.
I'd be curious to know how many "duplicate" users across wikis there might be. If there aren't that many -- and somehow, I don't think there would be (aside from maybe Meta and en) -- it could probably be a simple matter for someone to go through on a case-by-case basis and clear or resolve the two user names.
I've got a question based on some previous discussion I read on the list: do the people using Wikipedia in other languages think that combining user bases is a good idea? As I understand it, not everyone would like the idea of combining the user accounts in such a fashion. (Personally, I've got no stake in the matter; I even think that combining the users would be a great idea, because I've got accounts on both en and meta. I just think the issue might need addressing, is all. :-))
Dan Carlson (aka User:MinutiaeMan)
Am Freitag, 16. Januar 2004 00:22 schrieb Dan Carlson:
On Jan 15, 2004, at 1:09 PM, Ray Saintonge wrote:
Certainly, one begins with new users and preventing them from choosing a name which duplicates anything already being used in any of the projects. All existing unambiguous names can also be moved immediately.
I'd be curious to know how many "duplicate" users across wikis there might be. If there aren't that many -- and somehow, I don't think there would be (aside from maybe Meta and en) -- it could probably be a simple matter for someone to go through on a case-by-case basis and clear or resolve the two user names.
I've got a question based on some previous discussion I read on the list: do the people using Wikipedia in other languages think that combining user bases is a good idea? As I understand it, not everyone would like the idea of combining the user accounts in such a fashion. (Personally, I've got no stake in the matter; I even think that combining the users would be a great idea, because I've got accounts on both en and meta. I just think the issue might need addressing, is all. :-))
i guess in other languages it is more likely, that users prefer this since they may have an account at their own language, at en: and at meta:.
Ivo Köthnig
Would the maintenance of old user accounts be necessary or desirable in order to preserve more exact details of authorship?
Best, Sascha Noyes
Ivo Köthnig wrote:
Hello,
I am new at wikitech-l, so I dont know what is said before to the theme "sinle-sign-on"
There is additional problem with single sign-on which I do not think has yet been considered.
Let's imagine we've implement it. (yay! :) ) I go to the Swedish Wikipedia to make langlinks, but I make a mistake and mess it up. My user page on se: is blank, because I've never edited there before. How do the people on se: know to find my user page on en: ?
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:03:30 +0000, tarquin wrote:
How do the people on se: know to find my user page on en: ?
That's the same thing for other content really- if content exists in English but not in one of the more 'exotic' languages there should be a way to offer the existing languages for the article.
My proposal UI-wise is to display the full list of languages in a <select>, with the no-yet written one alphabetically below and propably greyed out. The existing ones should be alphabetically sorted above. Alternatively the existing ones could be sorted by article length, to give an idea about the comprehensiveness.
This way if you went to the not-yet written swedish version of your user page, you could see which languages exist in the dropdown.
When you want to translate an article, just select one of the greyed-out entries and start typing.
Gabriel Wicke wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:03:30 +0000, tarquin wrote:
How do the people on se: know to find my user page on en: ?
That's the same thing for other content really- if content exists in English but not in one of the more 'exotic' languages there should be a way to offer the existing languages for the article.
My proposal UI-wise is to display the full list of languages in a <select>, with the no-yet written one alphabetically below and propably greyed out. The existing ones should be alphabetically sorted above. Alternatively the existing ones could be sorted by article length, to give an idea about the comprehensiveness.
This way if you went to the not-yet written swedish version of your user page, you could see which languages exist in the dropdown.
I think it's a mistake the see langlinks as "translations" of each article -- rather, they are points of contact between the different versions of the encyclopedia. As has been pointed out many times, there are not always one-to-one correspondences between articles.
Am Donnerstag, 15. Januar 2004 21:03 schrieb tarquin:
Ivo Köthnig wrote:
Hello,
I am new at wikitech-l, so I dont know what is said before to the theme "sinle-sign-on"
There is additional problem with single sign-on which I do not think has yet been considered.
Let's imagine we've implement it. (yay! :) ) I go to the Swedish Wikipedia to make langlinks, but I make a mistake and mess it up. My user page on se: is blank, because I've never edited there before. How do the people on se: know to find my user page on en: ?
I think there should be no difference to the actual situation. You than can create userpages on each lang-WP but you dont need to do this.
Otherns actually find your userpage also just there where you have created one!
Regards Ivo Köthnig
tarquin wrote:
Let's imagine we've implement it. (yay! :) ) I go to the Swedish Wikipedia to make langlinks, but I make a mistake and mess it up. My user page on se: is blank, because I've never edited there before. How do the people on se: know to find my user page on en: ?
I would say that this isn't "an additional problem" with single sign-on, but a good example of what single sign-on has the potential to solve. The solution is that if we had single sign-on, the system could theoretically detect all of the wikis at which you have a userpage, and automagically link to them on your user pages.
See additional user pages for this user at: [en] [se] [fr].
Right now, there's no guarantee that your id at en is the same person as the same id at se.
tarquin wrote:
Ivo Khnig wrote:
Hello,
I am new at wikitech-l, so I dont know what is said before to the theme "sinle-sign-on"
There is additional problem with single sign-on which I do not think has yet been considered.
Let's imagine we've implement it. (yay! :) ) I go to the Swedish Wikipedia to make langlinks, but I make a mistake and mess it up. My user page on se: is blank, because I've never edited there before. How do the people on se: know to find my user page on en: ?
If it finds no user page for you on se it could redirect to your primary user page wherever that may be. If you have more than one user page you could designate which is primary. I suppose too that there may be other ways to deal with this problem.
Ec
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