* Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content? * Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped.
These mailman options are both enabled for this list. I would argue that they should both be disabled. It is nice to write emails with cutting-edge features like client-side word wrapping and links.
Are there any objections to this change?
-- Tim Starling
Yes please. A mere fifty years after the invention of hyperlinks, it would be great to adopt them here.
Agreed! The word wrapping especially drives me nuts. My phone is just small enough that the last word or two of each line gets wrapped natively, on top of Mailman's wrapping, making any sizable email a difficult read.
~ MA
On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 11:26 PM Gergő Tisza gtisza@gmail.com wrote:
Yes please. A mere fifty years after the invention of hyperlinks, it would be great to adopt them here. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Yes, that would be helpful.
বুধ, ২৩ সেপ্টেম্বর, ২০২০ ৯:০৫ AM তারিখে MusikAnimal musikanimal@gmail.com লিখেছেন:
Agreed! The word wrapping especially drives me nuts. My phone is just small enough that the last word or two of each line gets wrapped natively, on top of Mailman's wrapping, making any sizable email a difficult read.
~ MA
On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 11:26 PM Gergő Tisza gtisza@gmail.com wrote:
Yes please. A mere fifty years after the invention of hyperlinks, it
would
be great to adopt them here. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Agreed, good idea.
On Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 10:31 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, that would be helpful.
বুধ, ২৩ সেপ্টেম্বর, ২০২০ ৯:০৫ AM তারিখে MusikAnimal musikanimal@gmail.com লিখেছেন:
Agreed! The word wrapping especially drives me nuts. My phone is just small enough that the last word or two of each line gets wrapped natively, on top of Mailman's wrapping, making any sizable email a difficult read.
~ MA
On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 11:26 PM Gergő Tisza gtisza@gmail.com wrote:
Yes please. A mere fifty years after the invention of hyperlinks, it
would
be great to adopt them here. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
OK done, and it seems to be working.
Sorry to pre-empt the discussion, but I really wanted to send that triage email as HTML.
We still haven't heard from Faidon who, last I heard, still reads his emails by piping telnet into less or something. But I think he can make sense of multipart/alternative as long as it's not base-64 encoded. You should send the plain text as the first part so he doesn't have to page down too far ;)
-- Tim Starling
On 23/9/20 2:31 pm, Tito Dutta wrote:
Yes, that would be helpful.
বুধ, ২৩ সেপ্টেম্বর, ২০২০ ৯:০৫ AM তারিখে MusikAnimal <musikanimal@gmail.com mailto:musikanimal@gmail.com> লিখেছেন:
Agreed! The word wrapping especially drives me nuts. My phone is just small enough that the last word or two of each line gets wrapped natively, on top of Mailman's wrapping, making any sizable email a difficult read. ~ MA On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 11:26 PM Gergő Tisza <gtisza@gmail.com <mailto:gtisza@gmail.com>> wrote: > Yes please. A mere fifty years after the invention of hyperlinks, it would > be great to adopt them here. > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Tim Starling wrote:
We still haven't heard from Faidon who, last I heard, still reads his emails by piping telnet into less or something. But I think he can make sense of multipart/alternative as long as it's not base-64 encoded...
I'm not Faidon, and I'm not even a regular contributor to this list, but as a data point of almost vanishingly possible interest, I can say that the above isn't even much of an exaggeration for the suitably old-guard set. Me, I read mail using a shell script 'mshow', which boils down to a selective cat from $MAIL into more, and gratuitous base-64 encoding is indeed an issue, causing me to pretty regularly have to type
mshow | mailbody | b64 -d | more
I have really got to automate that some day.
On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 02:45:37PM +1000, Tim Starling wrote:
We still haven't heard from Faidon who, last I heard, still reads his emails by piping telnet into less or something. But I think he can make sense of multipart/alternative as long as it's not base-64 encoded. You should send the plain text as the first part so he doesn't have to page down too far ;)
On behalf of the Mutt & other console email clients user club, we approve of this change. We haven't formed consensus on it yet, but I suspect we'd even be willing to go one step further and negotiate the use of emojis as well (perhaps even emojis in subject lines). No promises for responding in HTML, though; that's probably going to have to wait another century.
Faidon
As long as you guys keep the B-News https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_News bi-directional gateway functioning, I'm fine. And, please, make sure you strip any leading whitespace so as not to tickle the line-eater.
On Sep 23, 2020, at 9:21 AM, Faidon Liambotis faidon@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 02:45:37PM +1000, Tim Starling wrote:
We still haven't heard from Faidon who, last I heard, still reads his emails by piping telnet into less or something. But I think he can make sense of multipart/alternative as long as it's not base-64 encoded. You should send the plain text as the first part so he doesn't have to page down too far ;)
On behalf of the Mutt & other console email clients user club, we approve of this change. We haven't formed consensus on it yet, but I suspect we'd even be willing to go one step further and negotiate the use of emojis as well (perhaps even emojis in subject lines). No promises for responding in HTML, though; that's probably going to have to wait another century.
Faidon
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 9:22 AM Faidon Liambotis faidon@wikimedia.org wrote:
On behalf of the Mutt & other console email clients user club, we approve of this change. We haven't formed consensus on it yet, but I suspect we'd even be willing to go one step further and negotiate the use of emojis as well (perhaps even emojis in subject lines). No promises for responding in HTML, though; that's probably going to have to wait another century.
😆 👍
In at least the past couple years of Linux distribution releases, graphical terminals generally do a good job of emoji rendering by default, for what it's worth. 😎🎉
If you find emoji rendering amiss on your Debian-like system, I recommend first
apt install fonts-noto-color-emoji
and then installing this ~/.config/fontconfig/fonts.conf: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/P12767
Keep it 💯,
*HTML email is a scourge.*
On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 9:35 AM Chris Danis cdanis@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 9:22 AM Faidon Liambotis faidon@wikimedia.org wrote:
On behalf of the Mutt & other console email clients user club, we approve of this change. We haven't formed consensus on it yet, but I suspect we'd even be willing to go one step further and negotiate the use of emojis as well (perhaps even emojis in subject lines). No promises for responding in HTML, though; that's probably going to have to wait another century.
😆 👍
In at least the past couple years of Linux distribution releases, graphical terminals generally do a good job of emoji rendering by default, for what it's worth. 😎🎉
If you find emoji rendering amiss on your Debian-like system, I recommend first
apt install fonts-noto-color-emoji
and then installing this ~/.config/fontconfig/fonts.conf: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/P12767
Keep it 💯,
-- Chris Danis (he/him) Staff Site Reliability Engineer Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
+1 for both of these. This would save me some time in the drafting of Wikitech-l emails.
You will of course still reserve the right to insert line breaks at your own discretion to achieve a particular visual fit. -- Timo
On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 4:03 AM Tim Starling tstarling@wikimedia.org wrote:
- Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content?
- Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This
conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped.
These mailman options are both enabled for this list. I would argue that they should both be disabled. It is nice to write emails with cutting-edge features like client-side word wrapping and links.
Are there any objections to this change?
-- Tim Starling
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
It's fine to allow HTML email, but doing so shifts on the users the burden of fixing their clients so that they produce suitable multipart emails before sending them to the list. With some common email clients and providers (e.g. Gmail webmail) it's surprisingly easy to produce utterly unreadable HTML which wouldn't pass even the most lenient accessibility scrutiny.
Federico
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org