I haven't set up Spam Assassin, but I do run a lot of mailing lists. You can eliminate 99% of all spam on mailing lists by doing two things:
1) Only members of the list can post to the list (I don't think you're doing this, but not sure since I'm not on the other list being discussed)
2) You must answer an email to join the list (I think you already do this)
There are other things that can be done to get rid of the last 1%, but this gets it down to very controlled levels for most mailing lists. If the list admin wants to take this off line, I'd be happy to discuss it, and work with him until the problem is resolved.
-Kelly
At 11:09 AM 1/30/2004, you wrote:
Brion Vibber idly wondered,
Can we install Spam Assassin software on the wikien-l mailing list? How about other mailing lists?
Do you know how to set it up properly as a machine-wide service?
Are you kidding? All I know is VB and Java on Windows. The only service I know anything about takes place on Sundays at my church...
But I know what e-mail filtering is: certain combinations of keywords tip off the software to flag a message as spam, and automatically moves it to another bin. You can either leave the suspected spam in the bin, or double-check it, or just have it automatically deleted.
Ed Poor _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Jan 31, 2004, at 13:52, Kelly Anderson wrote:
I haven't set up Spam Assassin, but I do run a lot of mailing lists. You can eliminate 99% of all spam on mailing lists by doing two things:
- Only members of the list can post to the list (I don't think you're
doing this, but not sure since I'm not on the other list being discussed)
Non-member posts are held for moderation. Most are spam, and easily discarded. However, some of the lists get quite a bit of spam and the admins don't want to sift through it all looking for the "help! i can't get X to work" message from someone who didn't subscribe yet.
- You must answer an email to join the list (I think you already do
this)
Yes, we do this.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
At 02:58 PM 1/31/2004, you wrote:
Non-member posts are held for moderation. Most are spam, and easily discarded. However, some of the lists get quite a bit of spam and the admins don't want to sift through it all looking for the "help! i can't get X to work" message from someone who didn't subscribe yet.
So why not just throw that all away? Just bounce it with a "you must join the list to post" message? It's not all that big a deal for a human to join a mailing list... much harder for a spammer's automated computer.
-Kelly
On Jan 31, 2004, at 15:48, Kelly Anderson wrote:
At 02:58 PM 1/31/2004, you wrote:
Non-member posts are held for moderation. Most are spam, and easily discarded. However, some of the lists get quite a bit of spam and the admins don't want to sift through it all looking for the "help! i can't get X to work" message from someone who didn't subscribe yet.
So why not just throw that all away? Just bounce it with a "you must join the list to post" message? It's not all that big a deal for a human to join a mailing list... much harder for a spammer's automated computer.
We could for most of the lists. (And indeed, people get an automatic response that complains they aren't subscribed.)
There's also a pseudo-list that's used as a contact address for the German Wikipedia, though. For that we _need_ to accept non-subscribed addresses.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Email works on a store and forward protocol. SpamAssassin works on emails in the store part of that mechanism. Unfortunately, email lists are simply a forward multiple times immediately mechanism. Without the store portion, SpamAssassin cannot be made to work in that way (unless it was somehow integrated into the source code for the mail manager.) Now, everyone on the list could install SpamAssassin on their own server, but that's not what you were asking for. If I'm wrong about how SpamAssassin is working (or it works in multiple ways) someone please correct me.
One solution I've used is to use Yahoo Groups email manager rather than majordomo or similar. There is a web interface for approving or rejecting messages from non-members. You can have as many moderators as you want (can get) to approve or reject messages to the list. It's also easier for most people to subscribe or unsubscribe through that interface than through the interface you are currently using.
I understand the desire to use open source projects, but Yahoo Groups is free, and it is very effective in helping to bring this sort of thing under control. I used majordomo myself for about 4 years, and was very reluctant to switch to Yahoo Groups, but I've never looked back.
-Kelly
At 05:02 PM 1/31/2004, you wrote:
On Jan 31, 2004, at 15:48, Kelly Anderson wrote:
At 02:58 PM 1/31/2004, you wrote:
Non-member posts are held for moderation. Most are spam, and easily discarded. However, some of the lists get quite a bit of spam and the admins don't want to sift through it all looking for the "help! i can't get X to work" message from someone who didn't subscribe yet.
So why not just throw that all away? Just bounce it with a "you must join the list to post" message? It's not all that big a deal for a human to join a mailing list... much harder for a spammer's automated computer.
We could for most of the lists. (And indeed, people get an automatic response that complains they aren't subscribed.)
There's also a pseudo-list that's used as a contact address for the German Wikipedia, though. For that we _need_ to accept non-subscribed addresses.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Kelly Anderson wrote:
One solution I've used is to use Yahoo Groups email manager rather than majordomo or similar. There is a web interface for approving or rejecting messages from non-members. You can have as many moderators as you want (can get) to approve or reject messages to the list.
Majordomo has both those features, and a lot more besides.
I understand the desire to use open source projects, but Yahoo Groups is free, and it is very effective in helping to bring this sort of thing under control. I used majordomo myself for about 4 years, and was very reluctant to switch to Yahoo Groups, but I've never looked back.
I'd say that using Yahoo Groups is a cultural impossibility for us, whatever the merits might or might not be.
--Jimbo
At 12:21 PM 2/2/2004, you wrote:
Kelly Anderson wrote:
One solution I've used is to use Yahoo Groups email manager rather than majordomo or similar. There is a web interface for approving or rejecting messages from non-members. You can have as many moderators as you want (can get) to approve or reject messages to the list.
Majordomo has both those features, and a lot more besides.
When I used majordomo, it didn't deal with bounced messages very well.
I understand the desire to use open source projects, but Yahoo Groups is free, and it is very effective in helping to bring this sort of thing under control. I used majordomo myself for about 4 years, and was very reluctant to switch to Yahoo Groups, but I've never looked back.
I'd say that using Yahoo Groups is a cultural impossibility for us, whatever the merits might or might not be.
It's sad IF it actually is better. Mental illness can be defined as not being able to change one's opinion even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I would hate to think that "open source" pride is a mental illness ... :-)
-Kelly
Brion Vibber wrote:
On Jan 31, 2004, at 13:52, Kelly Anderson wrote:
I haven't set up Spam Assassin, but I do run a lot of mailing lists. You can eliminate 99% of all spam on mailing lists by doing two things:
- Only members of the list can post to the list (I don't think you're
doing this, but not sure since I'm not on the other list being discussed)
Non-member posts are held for moderation.
I would support changing this to rejecting non-member posts and not bothering the moderators. There are some slight social implications, of course, but just because our moderators work cheaply, that doesn't mean that their time is worthless. :-)
--Jimbo
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org