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On 19 July 2013 19:56, wikitech-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
Send Wikitech-l mailing list submissions to wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to wikitech-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
You can reach the person managing the list at wikitech-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Wikitech-l digest..."
Today's Topics:
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (C. Scott Ananian)
- Re: Request for Comments: New Search (C. Scott Ananian)
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (Ryan Lane)
- Re: Git config trick. (Tyler Romeo)
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (Jeroen De Dauw)
- Re: Git config trick. (Roan Kattouw)
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (C. Scott Ananian)
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (Tyler Romeo)
- Re: Git config trick. (C. Scott Ananian)
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:20:28 -0400 From: "C. Scott Ananian" cananian@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: < CAK5kH3xYP5RY+gSq3LA3t1Qp7fcPbfPf9Ex0Yz7z0Mdx1P6_uA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
It might also be worth going a "wikibase" release (on its own schedule or else scheduled shortly after each MW release), that contains a particular MW version along with version of the extensions that have been tested to work with it. This is the usual way in which these sorts of dependency chains are dealt with outside of WMF. (Ie, when RedHat Fedora is released, it contains the latest GNOME at that time, which in turn contains a version of GTK+ and various utilities all tested to work well together).
For the admin, it should just be a matter of using "wikibase 1.23" or whatever; they shouldn't have to hunt down individual extensions and figure out compatible versions for themselves. --scott
-- (http://cscott.net)
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:24:52 -0400 From: "C. Scott Ananian" cananian@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Request for Comments: New Search Message-ID: < CAK5kH3xY-D6wvXR1Cy5eMbSaVQdVih+jtKfAbpTu_qnA76NvpQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I wonder if there are queries or use cases we can support that *aren't* already better handled by google. Granted, users of private wikis can't simply use the 'site:' trick to reuse Google search results -- but users of private wikis also probably don't need superduper scalability.
Trying to brainstorm here, not start a flame war. What sorts of useful searches could we excel at? (Maybe these are searches/use cases that will facilitate editor engagement?) --scott
-- (http://cscott.net)
Message: 3 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:27:52 -0700 From: Ryan Lane rlane32@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: < CALKgCA0C6q8ymzidJ5FWhrtgdamBVq7tnxP8iARfXKtae_b1dQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 11:20 AM, C. Scott Ananian cananian@wikimedia.orgwrote:
It might also be worth going a "wikibase" release (on its own schedule or else scheduled shortly after each MW release), that contains a particular MW version along with version of the extensions that have been tested to work with it. This is the usual way in which these sorts of dependency chains are dealt with outside of WMF. (Ie, when RedHat Fedora is
released,
it contains the latest GNOME at that time, which in turn contains a
version
of GTK+ and various utilities all tested to work well together).
For the admin, it should just be a matter of using "wikibase 1.23" or
whatever; they shouldn't have to hunt down individual extensions and
figure
out compatible versions for themselves.
What if you want to use wikibase 1.23 and MyAbominationExtension 1.5 that requires an incompatible version of DataValues and MyAwesomeExtension 1.0 that requires an incompatible version of ValueView?
- Ryan
Message: 4 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:44:15 -0400 From: Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Git config trick. Message-ID: <CAE0Q5ovgSr9yY8rF_TAjwb_vj7kOr=+- xTdp6uXS5FHnzydJ5w@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
This is one of the most useful things I've ever learned. Thanks!
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Ori Livneh ori@wikimedia.org wrote:
In ~/.gitconfig, add:
[url "ssh://
your_username@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/mediawiki/extensions/
"] insteadOf = "ext:"
Now you can:
git clone ext:UploadWizard
!
Ori Livneh ori@wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Message: 5 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:44:58 +0200 From: Jeroen De Dauw jeroendedauw@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: <CAMhmagCrzt= OMcTG+xn22sR-cPRT4ribCUiniv63vu6fWAXc3g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hey,
What if you want to use wikibase 1.23 and MyAbominationExtension 1.5 that
requires an incompatible version of DataValues and MyAwesomeExtension 1.0 that requires an incompatible version of ValueView?
If you have releases of certain software that have requirements that cannot satisfied together, then you cannot install them together. That is a pretty inherent property of incompatible software.
As a user, when I run into such a situation, what I want to know is which versions of the software I am interested in I can install together. That is, after being told the latest releases do not work together. Sounds like we need some kind of package management :) In case of the components created for Wikidata, we have been supporting Composer for a while now, which is a great fit to our needs.
I attempted to install Wikibase the other day and made a fun discovery.
Installing it properly requires the following (12) extensions:
That is somewhat inaccurate, and is misleading with regard to Wikibase installation. Nevertheless, the concerns you bring up are certainly relevant, and currently not really tackled well in the MediaWiki community. That is to bad, as it encourages people to inappropriately bundle things and throw re usability out of the window (plus causing a long list of other problems).
Cheers
-- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 --
Message: 6 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:46:34 -0700 From: Roan Kattouw roan.kattouw@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Git config trick. Message-ID: <CALoQHwFe5HoaEMEzzj2CO6HS0VBwga= eGNCm58a7EUK3kNvVQA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Ori Livneh ori@wikimedia.org wrote:
In ~/.gitconfig, add:
[url "ssh://
your_username@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/mediawiki/extensions/"]
insteadOf = "ext:"Now you can:
git clone ext:UploadWizard
!
"!" indeed. Sweet trick, dude, thanks!
Roan
Message: 7 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:46:46 -0400 From: "C. Scott Ananian" cananian@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: <CAK5kH3yaGphVHi0= HTEcic7m2WT_V0Qzd7q-WCMGWjqUfc20Ow@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Ryan Lane rlane32@gmail.com wrote:
What if you want to use wikibase 1.23 and MyAbominationExtension 1.5 that requires an incompatible version of DataValues and MyAwesomeExtension 1.0 that requires an incompatible version of ValueView?
You file a bug report against MyAbominationExtension and/or MyAwesomeExtension, telling them they should update their extensions to be compatible with the latest wikibase. Or wait for wikibase 1.24, with updated DataValues and ValueViews. Again, the extension authors are responsible to keep up-to-date.
Or the admin can try to upgrade/downgrade individual components themselves, just like a Fedora developer is free to do so. But if that breaks you get to keep both pieces.
--scott
Message: 8 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:46:12 -0400 From: Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: <CAE0Q5otydNx92P_-nT07-BtEhx+SAsp_S0Ak= uCjUBooJvShYA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Man, if only PHP had some sort of dependency management system.....
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Jeroen De Dauw <jeroendedauw@gmail.com
wrote:
Hey,
What if you want to use wikibase 1.23 and MyAbominationExtension 1.5 that
requires an incompatible version of DataValues and MyAwesomeExtension
1.0
that requires an incompatible version of ValueView?
If you have releases of certain software that have requirements that
cannot
satisfied together, then you cannot install them together. That is a
pretty
inherent property of incompatible software.
As a user, when I run into such a situation, what I want to know is which versions of the software I am interested in I can install together. That is, after being told the latest releases do not work together. Sounds
like
we need some kind of package management :) In case of the components created for Wikidata, we have been supporting Composer for a while now, which is a great fit to our needs.
I attempted to install Wikibase the other day and made a fun discovery.
Installing it properly requires the following (12) extensions:
That is somewhat inaccurate, and is misleading with regard to Wikibase installation. Nevertheless, the concerns you bring up are certainly relevant, and currently not really tackled well in the MediaWiki
community.
That is to bad, as it encourages people to inappropriately bundle things and throw re usability out of the window (plus causing a long list of
other
problems).
Cheers
-- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 -- _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Message: 9 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:56:16 -0400 From: "C. Scott Ananian" cananian@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Git config trick. Message-ID: < CAK5kH3wEP6erKWuMqegsTyBk9qzY9LOx022yY1ht94guZJka4Q@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com wrote:
This is one of the most useful things I've ever learned. Thanks!
It's close, but the '-p' option to just-about-every-git-command still wins the "most useful" prize. But close!
I'll suggest a little variant:
[url "https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/p/mediawiki/"] insteadOf="mw:"
...lets you do: $ git clone mw:core $ git clone mw:extensions/Parsoid etc
You should still do 'git review --setup' once you've cloned the extension or whatever. That will set up the "ssh:// username@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/mediawiki/..." remote for gerrit and stuff. --scott
-- (http://cscott.net)
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
End of Wikitech-l Digest, Vol 120, Issue 54
Give them time Edmund.
Alternatively, you can go to the following URL and remove yourself.
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Thank you, Derric Atzrott
-----Original Message----- From: wikitech-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikitech-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Edmund Sent: 19 July 2013 15:25 To: wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikitech-l Digest, Vol 120, Issue 54
HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?HOW ABOUT YOU REMOVE ME FROM THIS MAILING LIST?
On 19 July 2013 19:56, wikitech-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
Send Wikitech-l mailing list submissions to wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to wikitech-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
You can reach the person managing the list at wikitech-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Wikitech-l digest..."
Today's Topics:
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (C. Scott Ananian)
- Re: Request for Comments: New Search (C. Scott Ananian)
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (Ryan Lane)
- Re: Git config trick. (Tyler Romeo)
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (Jeroen De Dauw)
- Re: Git config trick. (Roan Kattouw)
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (C. Scott Ananian)
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (Tyler Romeo)
- Re: Git config trick. (C. Scott Ananian)
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:20:28 -0400 From: "C. Scott Ananian" cananian@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: < CAK5kH3xYP5RY+gSq3LA3t1Qp7fcPbfPf9Ex0Yz7z0Mdx1P6_uA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
It might also be worth going a "wikibase" release (on its own schedule or else scheduled shortly after each MW release), that contains a particular MW version along with version of the extensions that have been tested to work with it. This is the usual way in which these sorts of dependency chains are dealt with outside of WMF. (Ie, when RedHat Fedora is released, it contains the latest GNOME at that time, which in turn contains a version of GTK+ and various utilities all tested to work well together).
For the admin, it should just be a matter of using "wikibase 1.23" or whatever; they shouldn't have to hunt down individual extensions and figure out compatible versions for themselves. --scott
-- (http://cscott.net)
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:24:52 -0400 From: "C. Scott Ananian" cananian@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Request for Comments: New Search Message-ID: < CAK5kH3xY-D6wvXR1Cy5eMbSaVQdVih+jtKfAbpTu_qnA76NvpQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I wonder if there are queries or use cases we can support that *aren't* already better handled by google. Granted, users of private wikis can't simply use the 'site:' trick to reuse Google search results -- but users of private wikis also probably don't need superduper scalability.
Trying to brainstorm here, not start a flame war. What sorts of useful searches could we excel at? (Maybe these are searches/use cases that will facilitate editor engagement?) --scott
-- (http://cscott.net)
Message: 3 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:27:52 -0700 From: Ryan Lane rlane32@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: < CALKgCA0C6q8ymzidJ5FWhrtgdamBVq7tnxP8iARfXKtae_b1dQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 11:20 AM, C. Scott Ananian cananian@wikimedia.orgwrote:
It might also be worth going a "wikibase" release (on its own schedule or else scheduled shortly after each MW release), that contains a particular MW version along with version of the extensions that have been tested to work with it. This is the usual way in which these sorts of dependency chains are dealt with outside of WMF. (Ie, when RedHat Fedora is
released,
it contains the latest GNOME at that time, which in turn contains a
version
of GTK+ and various utilities all tested to work well together).
For the admin, it should just be a matter of using "wikibase 1.23" or
whatever; they shouldn't have to hunt down individual extensions and
figure
out compatible versions for themselves.
What if you want to use wikibase 1.23 and MyAbominationExtension 1.5 that requires an incompatible version of DataValues and MyAwesomeExtension 1.0 that requires an incompatible version of ValueView?
- Ryan
Message: 4 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:44:15 -0400 From: Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Git config trick. Message-ID: <CAE0Q5ovgSr9yY8rF_TAjwb_vj7kOr=+- xTdp6uXS5FHnzydJ5w@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
This is one of the most useful things I've ever learned. Thanks!
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Ori Livneh ori@wikimedia.org wrote:
In ~/.gitconfig, add:
[url "ssh://
your_username@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/mediawiki/extensions/
"] insteadOf = "ext:"
Now you can:
git clone ext:UploadWizard
!
Ori Livneh ori@wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Message: 5 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:44:58 +0200 From: Jeroen De Dauw jeroendedauw@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: <CAMhmagCrzt= OMcTG+xn22sR-cPRT4ribCUiniv63vu6fWAXc3g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hey,
What if you want to use wikibase 1.23 and MyAbominationExtension 1.5 that
requires an incompatible version of DataValues and MyAwesomeExtension 1.0 that requires an incompatible version of ValueView?
If you have releases of certain software that have requirements that cannot satisfied together, then you cannot install them together. That is a pretty inherent property of incompatible software.
As a user, when I run into such a situation, what I want to know is which versions of the software I am interested in I can install together. That is, after being told the latest releases do not work together. Sounds like we need some kind of package management :) In case of the components created for Wikidata, we have been supporting Composer for a while now, which is a great fit to our needs.
I attempted to install Wikibase the other day and made a fun discovery.
Installing it properly requires the following (12) extensions:
That is somewhat inaccurate, and is misleading with regard to Wikibase installation. Nevertheless, the concerns you bring up are certainly relevant, and currently not really tackled well in the MediaWiki community. That is to bad, as it encourages people to inappropriately bundle things and throw re usability out of the window (plus causing a long list of other problems).
Cheers
-- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 --
Message: 6 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:46:34 -0700 From: Roan Kattouw roan.kattouw@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Git config trick. Message-ID: <CALoQHwFe5HoaEMEzzj2CO6HS0VBwga= eGNCm58a7EUK3kNvVQA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Ori Livneh ori@wikimedia.org wrote:
In ~/.gitconfig, add:
[url "ssh://
your_username@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/mediawiki/extensions/"]
insteadOf = "ext:"Now you can:
git clone ext:UploadWizard
!
"!" indeed. Sweet trick, dude, thanks!
Roan
Message: 7 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:46:46 -0400 From: "C. Scott Ananian" cananian@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: <CAK5kH3yaGphVHi0= HTEcic7m2WT_V0Qzd7q-WCMGWjqUfc20Ow@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Ryan Lane rlane32@gmail.com wrote:
What if you want to use wikibase 1.23 and MyAbominationExtension 1.5 that requires an incompatible version of DataValues and MyAwesomeExtension 1.0 that requires an incompatible version of ValueView?
You file a bug report against MyAbominationExtension and/or MyAwesomeExtension, telling them they should update their extensions to be compatible with the latest wikibase. Or wait for wikibase 1.24, with updated DataValues and ValueViews. Again, the extension authors are responsible to keep up-to-date.
Or the admin can try to upgrade/downgrade individual components themselves, just like a Fedora developer is free to do so. But if that breaks you get to keep both pieces.
--scott
Message: 8 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:46:12 -0400 From: Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: <CAE0Q5otydNx92P_-nT07-BtEhx+SAsp_S0Ak= uCjUBooJvShYA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Man, if only PHP had some sort of dependency management system.....
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Jeroen De Dauw <jeroendedauw@gmail.com
wrote:
Hey,
What if you want to use wikibase 1.23 and MyAbominationExtension 1.5 that
requires an incompatible version of DataValues and MyAwesomeExtension
1.0
that requires an incompatible version of ValueView?
If you have releases of certain software that have requirements that
cannot
satisfied together, then you cannot install them together. That is a
pretty
inherent property of incompatible software.
As a user, when I run into such a situation, what I want to know is which versions of the software I am interested in I can install together. That is, after being told the latest releases do not work together. Sounds
like
we need some kind of package management :) In case of the components created for Wikidata, we have been supporting Composer for a while now, which is a great fit to our needs.
I attempted to install Wikibase the other day and made a fun discovery.
Installing it properly requires the following (12) extensions:
That is somewhat inaccurate, and is misleading with regard to Wikibase installation. Nevertheless, the concerns you bring up are certainly relevant, and currently not really tackled well in the MediaWiki
community.
That is to bad, as it encourages people to inappropriately bundle things and throw re usability out of the window (plus causing a long list of
other
problems).
Cheers
-- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 -- _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Message: 9 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:56:16 -0400 From: "C. Scott Ananian" cananian@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Git config trick. Message-ID: < CAK5kH3wEP6erKWuMqegsTyBk9qzY9LOx022yY1ht94guZJka4Q@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com wrote:
This is one of the most useful things I've ever learned. Thanks!
It's close, but the '-p' option to just-about-every-git-command still wins the "most useful" prize. But close!
I'll suggest a little variant:
[url "https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/p/mediawiki/"] insteadOf="mw:"
...lets you do: $ git clone mw:core $ git clone mw:extensions/Parsoid etc
You should still do 'git review --setup' once you've cloned the extension or whatever. That will set up the "ssh:// username@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/mediawiki/..." remote for gerrit and stuff. --scott
-- (http://cscott.net)
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
End of Wikitech-l Digest, Vol 120, Issue 54
_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Also, email filters are your friend. Make a temporary one to move this list's mails to your trash until you are removed.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:29 PM, Derric Atzrott < datzrott@alizeepathology.com> wrote:
Give them time Edmund.
Alternatively, you can go to the following URL and remove yourself.
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Thank you, Derric Atzrott
-----Original Message----- From: wikitech-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikitech-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Edmund Sent: 19 July 2013 15:25 To: wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikitech-l Digest, Vol 120, Issue 54
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On 19 July 2013 19:56, wikitech-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Wikitech-l digest..."
Today's Topics:
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (C. Scott Ananian)
- Re: Request for Comments: New Search (C. Scott Ananian)
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (Ryan Lane)
- Re: Git config trick. (Tyler Romeo)
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (Jeroen De Dauw)
- Re: Git config trick. (Roan Kattouw)
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (C. Scott Ananian)
- Re: MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins (Tyler Romeo)
- Re: Git config trick. (C. Scott Ananian)
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:20:28 -0400 From: "C. Scott Ananian" cananian@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: < CAK5kH3xYP5RY+gSq3LA3t1Qp7fcPbfPf9Ex0Yz7z0Mdx1P6_uA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
It might also be worth going a "wikibase" release (on its own schedule or else scheduled shortly after each MW release), that contains a particular MW version along with version of the extensions that have been tested to work with it. This is the usual way in which these sorts of dependency chains are dealt with outside of WMF. (Ie, when RedHat Fedora is
released,
it contains the latest GNOME at that time, which in turn contains a
version
of GTK+ and various utilities all tested to work well together).
For the admin, it should just be a matter of using "wikibase 1.23" or whatever; they shouldn't have to hunt down individual extensions and
figure
out compatible versions for themselves. --scott
-- (http://cscott.net)
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:24:52 -0400 From: "C. Scott Ananian" cananian@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Request for Comments: New Search Message-ID: < CAK5kH3xY-D6wvXR1Cy5eMbSaVQdVih+jtKfAbpTu_qnA76NvpQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I wonder if there are queries or use cases we can support that *aren't* already better handled by google. Granted, users of private wikis can't simply use the 'site:' trick to reuse Google search results -- but users
of
private wikis also probably don't need superduper scalability.
Trying to brainstorm here, not start a flame war. What sorts of useful searches could we excel at? (Maybe these are searches/use cases that
will
facilitate editor engagement?) --scott
-- (http://cscott.net)
Message: 3 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:27:52 -0700 From: Ryan Lane rlane32@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: < CALKgCA0C6q8ymzidJ5FWhrtgdamBVq7tnxP8iARfXKtae_b1dQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 11:20 AM, C. Scott Ananian cananian@wikimedia.orgwrote:
It might also be worth going a "wikibase" release (on its own schedule
or
else scheduled shortly after each MW release), that contains a
particular
MW version along with version of the extensions that have been tested
to
work with it. This is the usual way in which these sorts of dependency chains are dealt with outside of WMF. (Ie, when RedHat Fedora is
released,
it contains the latest GNOME at that time, which in turn contains a
version
of GTK+ and various utilities all tested to work well together).
For the admin, it should just be a matter of using "wikibase 1.23" or
whatever; they shouldn't have to hunt down individual extensions and
figure
out compatible versions for themselves.
What if you want to use wikibase 1.23 and MyAbominationExtension 1.5 that requires an incompatible version of DataValues and MyAwesomeExtension 1.0 that requires an incompatible version of ValueView?
- Ryan
Message: 4 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:44:15 -0400 From: Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Git config trick. Message-ID: <CAE0Q5ovgSr9yY8rF_TAjwb_vj7kOr=+- xTdp6uXS5FHnzydJ5w@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
This is one of the most useful things I've ever learned. Thanks!
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Ori Livneh ori@wikimedia.org wrote:
In ~/.gitconfig, add:
[url "ssh://
your_username@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/mediawiki/extensions/
"] insteadOf = "ext:"
Now you can:
git clone ext:UploadWizard
!
Ori Livneh ori@wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Message: 5 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 20:44:58 +0200 From: Jeroen De Dauw jeroendedauw@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: <CAMhmagCrzt= OMcTG+xn22sR-cPRT4ribCUiniv63vu6fWAXc3g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hey,
What if you want to use wikibase 1.23 and MyAbominationExtension 1.5 that
requires an incompatible version of DataValues and MyAwesomeExtension
1.0
that requires an incompatible version of ValueView?
If you have releases of certain software that have requirements that
cannot
satisfied together, then you cannot install them together. That is a
pretty
inherent property of incompatible software.
As a user, when I run into such a situation, what I want to know is which versions of the software I am interested in I can install together. That is, after being told the latest releases do not work together. Sounds
like
we need some kind of package management :) In case of the components created for Wikidata, we have been supporting Composer for a while now, which is a great fit to our needs.
I attempted to install Wikibase the other day and made a fun discovery.
Installing it properly requires the following (12) extensions:
That is somewhat inaccurate, and is misleading with regard to Wikibase installation. Nevertheless, the concerns you bring up are certainly relevant, and currently not really tackled well in the MediaWiki
community.
That is to bad, as it encourages people to inappropriately bundle things and throw re usability out of the window (plus causing a long list of
other
problems).
Cheers
-- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 --
Message: 6 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:46:34 -0700 From: Roan Kattouw roan.kattouw@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Git config trick. Message-ID: <CALoQHwFe5HoaEMEzzj2CO6HS0VBwga= eGNCm58a7EUK3kNvVQA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Ori Livneh ori@wikimedia.org wrote:
In ~/.gitconfig, add:
[url "ssh://
your_username@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/mediawiki/extensions/"]
insteadOf = "ext:"Now you can:
git clone ext:UploadWizard
!
"!" indeed. Sweet trick, dude, thanks!
Roan
Message: 7 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:46:46 -0400 From: "C. Scott Ananian" cananian@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: <CAK5kH3yaGphVHi0= HTEcic7m2WT_V0Qzd7q-WCMGWjqUfc20Ow@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Ryan Lane rlane32@gmail.com wrote:
What if you want to use wikibase 1.23 and MyAbominationExtension 1.5
that
requires an incompatible version of DataValues and MyAwesomeExtension
1.0
that requires an incompatible version of ValueView?
You file a bug report against MyAbominationExtension and/or MyAwesomeExtension, telling them they should update their extensions to
be
compatible with the latest wikibase. Or wait for wikibase 1.24, with updated DataValues and ValueViews. Again, the extension authors are responsible to keep up-to-date.
Or the admin can try to upgrade/downgrade individual components
themselves,
just like a Fedora developer is free to do so. But if that breaks you
get
to keep both pieces.
--scott
Message: 8 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:46:12 -0400 From: Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki extensions as core-like libraries: MediaWiki's fun new landmine for admins Message-ID: <CAE0Q5otydNx92P_-nT07-BtEhx+SAsp_S0Ak= uCjUBooJvShYA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Man, if only PHP had some sort of dependency management system.....
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Jeroen De Dauw <jeroendedauw@gmail.com
wrote:
Hey,
What if you want to use wikibase 1.23 and MyAbominationExtension 1.5
that
requires an incompatible version of DataValues and MyAwesomeExtension
1.0
that requires an incompatible version of ValueView?
If you have releases of certain software that have requirements that
cannot
satisfied together, then you cannot install them together. That is a
pretty
inherent property of incompatible software.
As a user, when I run into such a situation, what I want to know is
which
versions of the software I am interested in I can install together.
That
is, after being told the latest releases do not work together. Sounds
like
we need some kind of package management :) In case of the components created for Wikidata, we have been supporting Composer for a while now, which is a great fit to our needs.
I attempted to install Wikibase the other day and made a fun discovery.
Installing it properly requires the following (12) extensions:
That is somewhat inaccurate, and is misleading with regard to Wikibase installation. Nevertheless, the concerns you bring up are certainly relevant, and currently not really tackled well in the MediaWiki
community.
That is to bad, as it encourages people to inappropriately bundle
things
and throw re usability out of the window (plus causing a long list of
other
problems).
Cheers
-- Jeroen De Dauw http://www.bn2vs.com Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3 -- _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Message: 9 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:56:16 -0400 From: "C. Scott Ananian" cananian@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Git config trick. Message-ID: < CAK5kH3wEP6erKWuMqegsTyBk9qzY9LOx022yY1ht94guZJka4Q@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com
wrote:
This is one of the most useful things I've ever learned. Thanks!
It's close, but the '-p' option to just-about-every-git-command still
wins
the "most useful" prize. But close!
I'll suggest a little variant:
[url "https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/p/mediawiki/"] insteadOf="mw:"
...lets you do: $ git clone mw:core $ git clone mw:extensions/Parsoid etc
You should still do 'git review --setup' once you've cloned the extension or whatever. That will set up the "ssh:// username@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/mediawiki/..." remote for gerrit and stuff. --scott
-- (http://cscott.net)
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
End of Wikitech-l Digest, Vol 120, Issue 54
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