I know there are bigger things to worry about, but...
I'm still having problems with my logo giving a little jump to the right on load - it happens on all the biggest Wikipedia's - except the German and Swedish ones.
Any ideas how I fix this - or should I go on prozac?
Paul
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 22:25:04 +0100, Paul Youlten paul.youlten@gmail.com wrote:
I know there are bigger things to worry about, but...
I'm still having problems with my logo giving a little jump to the right on load - it happens on all the biggest Wikipedia's - except the German and Swedish ones.
Any ideas how I fix this - or should I go on prozac?
Which browser and OS are you using?
If it's really annoying, switch to a different theme.
It only happens in IE (I have v.6 running on XP) - Opera and FireFox (also on XP) seem fine. I can't get images to load in Lynx, but that particular bug is well documented ;-)
Now it's happening on the German Wikipedia! Can anyone else see this or do I need new glasses?
Paul
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomer Chachamu" the.r3m0t@gmail.com To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] jumping logo
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 22:25:04 +0100, Paul Youlten paul.youlten@gmail.com wrote:
I know there are bigger things to worry about, but...
I'm still having problems with my logo giving a little jump to the right on load - it happens on all the biggest Wikipedia's - except the German and Swedish ones.
Any ideas how I fix this - or should I go on prozac?
Which browser and OS are you using?
If it's really annoying, switch to a different theme. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Paul Youlten wrote:
I know there are bigger things to worry about, but...
I'm still having problems with my logo giving a little jump to the right on load - it happens on all the biggest Wikipedia's - except the German and Swedish ones.
Sounds like this problem: http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1084
The bug is marked as fixed, I'm not quite sure what the status is.
I seem to remember seeing a note somewhere about this problem still being there on some wiki (hu.wikipedia.org maybe?) and being fixed by removing some change (or making some removal?) to the [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. Unfortunately I can't find the reference just now.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
--- Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
Paul Youlten wrote:
I know there are bigger things to worry about, but...
I'm still having problems with my logo giving a little jump to the right on load - it happens on all the biggest Wikipedia's - except the German and Swedish ones.
Sounds like this problem: http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1084
The bug is marked as fixed, I'm not quite sure what the status is.
I seem to remember seeing a note somewhere about this problem still being there on some wiki (hu.wikipedia.org maybe?) and being fixed by removing some change (or making some removal?) to the [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. Unfortunately I can't find the reference just now.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
I can confirm that the behavior is still present on en.wikipedia using IE 6.0 SP2 on XP SP2. It is much harder for me to notice than it has been in the past. I suspect at least part of that is the improved performance of the site.
By the way, Paul, if you attached your screen captures, they did not make it to the list (I think they're removed for security). Maybe you could post them at bugzilla.wikimedia.org.
-Rich
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:DE_wikipedia_logo_jump_01.gif
Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Holton" rich_holton@yahoo.com To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 2:02 AM Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] jumping logo
--- Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
Paul Youlten wrote:
I know there are bigger things to worry about, but...
I'm still having problems with my logo giving a little jump to the right on load - it happens on all the biggest Wikipedia's - except the German and Swedish ones.
Sounds like this problem: http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1084
The bug is marked as fixed, I'm not quite sure what the status is.
I seem to remember seeing a note somewhere about this problem still being there on some wiki (hu.wikipedia.org maybe?) and being fixed by removing some change (or making some removal?) to the [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. Unfortunately I can't find the reference just now.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
I can confirm that the behavior is still present on en.wikipedia using IE 6.0 SP2 on XP SP2. It is much harder for me to notice than it has been in the past. I suspect at least part of that is the improved performance of the site.
By the way, Paul, if you attached your screen captures, they did not make it to the list (I think they're removed for security). Maybe you could post them at bugzilla.wikimedia.org.
-Rich
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Tuesday 08 February 2005 11:43, Paul Youlten wrote:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:DE_wikipedia_logo_jump_01.gif
Why you don't use Mozilla?
Good idea, neither FireFox nor Opera have the jumping logo problem.
The trouble is that it's not just me - the vast majority of visitors to my site (and the different wikipedias) use IE.
Paul Youlten ----- Original Message ----- From: "NSK" nsk2@wikinerds.org To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] jumping logo
On Tuesday 08 February 2005 11:43, Paul Youlten wrote:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:DE_wikipedia_logo_jump_01.gif
Why you don't use Mozilla?
-- NSK http://portal.wikinerds.org/slashdotting2005feb4 _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Tuesday 08 February 2005 12:12, Paul Youlten wrote:
The trouble is that it's not just me - the vast majority of visitors to my site (and the different wikipedias) use IE.
Just place a Mozilla or Firefox icon on the site.
Mozilla and Mozilla Firefox are different things: Firefox is just the lightweight version of Mozilla and doesn't contain all the features of Mozilla.
NSK (nsk2@wikinerds.org) [050208 21:32]:
On Tuesday 08 February 2005 12:12, Paul Youlten wrote:
The trouble is that it's not just me - the vast majority of visitors to my site (and the different wikipedias) use IE.
Just place a Mozilla or Firefox icon on the site. Mozilla and Mozilla Firefox are different things: Firefox is just the lightweight version of Mozilla and doesn't contain all the features of Mozilla.
"This site optimised for arguing with customers" is not actually a good thing. While IE is undoubtedly an inferior browser in many ways, a browser used by 80% of Wikipedia users and 90% of web accesses in general is a reasonable target for at least graceful degradation rather than breakage, even if the actual problem is IE's horrible CSS implementation.
- d.
On Tuesday 08 February 2005 12:54, David Gerard wrote:
used by 80% of Wikipedia users and 90% of web accesses in general is a
Where did you got these statistics? I don't think they are correct:
According to the statistics of my site for February, 60% of users use Firefox, 15% IE, 10% Mozilla, 5% Safari, 3% Opera, 3% Konqueror, 1% Netscape.
In addition, only 60% of my readers and users run Windows. 30% run GNU/Linux, 8% MacOS, 1% FreeBSD.
The most common combination is Windows and Firefox.
I say it again: Only 15% of my users run MSIE.
NSK (nsk2@wikinerds.org) [050208 22:06]:
On Tuesday 08 February 2005 12:54, David Gerard wrote:
used by 80% of Wikipedia users and 90% of web accesses in general is a
Where did you got these statistics? I don't think they are correct:
I understood non-IE was 20% on Wikipedia - I don't have a reference to hand.
90% general is from the most recent widely-publicised WebTrends report which showed IE dipping just below 90% for the first time in a few years.
Given the content of yours, I can well believe it's only 15% IE!
(I currently use IE at work to keep from browsing too much specifically because it's such a bad experience ;-)
- d.
On Tuesday 08 February 2005 13:10, David Gerard wrote:
I understood non-IE was 20% on Wikipedia - I don't have a reference to
Well, if it's only 20% you need to do something to promote free browsers, shouldn't you? Think about it: You are a free encyclopedia which should be browsed with a free browser.
(I currently use IE at work to keep from browsing too much specifically because it's such a bad experience ;-)
;-)
I think you'll find that IE comes free with every installation of Windoze XP ($200).
Mac users can down load it free from Mactopia.
I expect that BG will admit defeat soon and launch a version for Debian Linux.
Paul Youlten ----- Original Message ----- From: "NSK" nsk2@wikinerds.org To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] jumping logo
On Tuesday 08 February 2005 13:10, David Gerard wrote:
I understood non-IE was 20% on Wikipedia - I don't have a reference to
Well, if it's only 20% you need to do something to promote free browsers, shouldn't you? Think about it: You are a free encyclopedia which should be browsed with a free browser.
(I currently use IE at work to keep from browsing too much specifically because it's such a bad experience ;-)
;-)
-- NSK http://portal.wikinerds.org/slashdotting2005feb4 _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Paul Youlten wrote:
I think you'll find that IE comes free with every installation of Windoze XP ($200).
Mac users can down load it free from Mactopia.
I expect that BG will admit defeat soon and launch a version for Debian Linux.
As a Debian user, I have mixed feelings about that . . .
-- Chad
So 15% of your users aren't real wikinerds? What else does that prove? ;-)
Paul Youlten mobile: +44(0)7814 517 807 ----- Original Message ----- From: "NSK" nsk2@wikinerds.org To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] jumping logo
On Tuesday 08 February 2005 12:54, David Gerard wrote:
used by 80% of Wikipedia users and 90% of web accesses in general is a
Where did you got these statistics? I don't think they are correct:
According to the statistics of my site for February, 60% of users use Firefox, 15% IE, 10% Mozilla, 5% Safari, 3% Opera, 3% Konqueror, 1% Netscape.
In addition, only 60% of my readers and users run Windows. 30% run GNU/Linux, 8% MacOS, 1% FreeBSD.
The most common combination is Windows and Firefox.
I say it again: Only 15% of my users run MSIE.
-- NSK http://portal.wikinerds.org/slashdotting2005feb4 _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Tuesday 08 February 2005 13:12, Paul Youlten wrote:
So 15% of your users aren't real wikinerds? What else does that prove? ;-)
Hey, I suspect they are just free browser users who are lying ;-)
There are some uber-geeks with customised id-strings, too: http://nsk.wikinerds.org/blog/index.php?p=136
or we could add:
"This site is NOT optimized for Microsoft(tm) Internet Explorer(tm) - if you don't like the way the Wikipedia logo jumps when you first load the page please go quietly to encarta.com"
That should solve the problem ;-)
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 12:41:05 +0200, NSK nsk2@wikinerds.org wrote:
On Tuesday 08 February 2005 12:12, Paul Youlten wrote:
The trouble is that it's not just me - the vast majority of visitors to my site (and the different wikipedias) use IE.
Just place a Mozilla or Firefox icon on the site.
Mozilla and Mozilla Firefox are different things: Firefox is just the lightweight version of Mozilla and doesn't contain all the features of Mozilla.
-- NSK http://portal.wikinerds.org/slashdotting2005feb4 _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
NSK wrote:
Mozilla and Mozilla Firefox are different things: Firefox is just the lightweight version of Mozilla and doesn't contain all the features of Mozilla.
This is somewhat off-topic, but . . .
Err, that's not really accurate. Firefox includes features Mozilla lacks, and its interface works differently. I haven't looked into the technical details, but I'm sure there are some "under the hood" differences as well.
The way the interface works is, in my experience, actually closer to the way the IE interface works than to that of Mozilla. For instance, Firefox allows one to use Ctrl+Enter to automatically navigate to .com domains, and will refresh the page when the F5 key is pressed. These are both features borrowed from IE, and not from Mozilla.
I suspect the interface functionality is much of the reason Firefox is stealing away IE users far more effectively than Mozilla ever did: it attracts people who stuck with IE because they didn't like the Mozilla interface, but would prefer something other than IE, and it attracts people who are just now waking up to browsers other than IE and don't want to have to learn a new way of doing things.
I've rambled on enough about that. Back to the subject at hand:
Maybe the logo image is just loading at an inopportune moment. I haven't checked the code for it, but it might be worth investigating. If the logo is loading before some formatting that affects its placement, that would account for the jump. On the other hand, if it's actually just a bug in IE (which I'm inclined to believe), and it doesn't actually affect the usability, functionality, or final appearance of the page, it might also be worth ignoring if no simple solution appears.
-- Chad
Chad,
I think you have the right idea - if you look at http://www.guitarwiki.com - you see something even more strange - first it loads the navigation menu then the logo graphic with a blue background - then the google ads come in under the navigation box and the blue background is swapped for a transparent one. It also does an impressive jump up - as well as the traditional right.
Bizarre...
I tried 2 things: First I enlarged the size of the logo to see if maybe there was some problem related to a change in width of the table column on the arrival of the navigation column - that made no difference.
then I made a new headbg.jpg (the background image) into which I pasted my wiki logo. After some pixel pushing I got the position right and I solved the problem. Not pretty but at least I'm not twitching anymore.
I'll add a note explaining what I did to the 1084 bug as a kind of work-around.
... and I'll email Nohat and tell him about it too.
Hasta manana todos.
Paul Youlten ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Perrin" perrin@apotheon.com To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] jumping logo
NSK wrote:
Mozilla and Mozilla Firefox are different things: Firefox is just the lightweight version of Mozilla and doesn't contain all the features of Mozilla.
This is somewhat off-topic, but . . .
Err, that's not really accurate. Firefox includes features Mozilla lacks, and its interface works differently. I haven't looked into the technical details, but I'm sure there are some "under the hood" differences as well.
The way the interface works is, in my experience, actually closer to the way the IE interface works than to that of Mozilla. For instance, Firefox allows one to use Ctrl+Enter to automatically navigate to .com domains, and will refresh the page when the F5 key is pressed. These are both features borrowed from IE, and not from Mozilla.
I suspect the interface functionality is much of the reason Firefox is stealing away IE users far more effectively than Mozilla ever did: it attracts people who stuck with IE because they didn't like the Mozilla interface, but would prefer something other than IE, and it attracts people who are just now waking up to browsers other than IE and don't want to have to learn a new way of doing things.
I've rambled on enough about that. Back to the subject at hand:
Maybe the logo image is just loading at an inopportune moment. I haven't checked the code for it, but it might be worth investigating. If the logo is loading before some formatting that affects its placement, that would account for the jump. On the other hand, if it's actually just a bug in IE (which I'm inclined to believe), and it doesn't actually affect the usability, functionality, or final appearance of the page, it might also be worth ignoring if no simple solution appears.
-- Chad _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Paul Youlten wrote:
Chad,
I think you have the right idea - if you look at http://www.guitarwiki.com - you see something even more strange - first it loads the navigation menu then the logo graphic with a blue background - then the google ads come in under the navigation box and the blue background is swapped for a transparent one. It also does an impressive jump up - as well as the traditional right.
Bizarre...
I tried 2 things: First I enlarged the size of the logo to see if maybe there was some problem related to a change in width of the table column on the arrival of the navigation column - that made no difference.
then I made a new headbg.jpg (the background image) into which I pasted my wiki logo. After some pixel pushing I got the position right and I solved the problem. Not pretty but at least I'm not twitching anymore.
I'll add a note explaining what I did to the 1084 bug as a kind of work-around.
... and I'll email Nohat and tell him about it too.
Yay, I fixed it! I hereby claim credit for all good things.
Ahem. Whoops. I mean: Good. I'm glad that helped in your search for a solution.
-- Chad
"Paul" == Paul Youlten paul.youlten@gmail.com writes:
I know there are bigger things to worry about, but... I'm still having problems with my logo giving a little jump to the right on load - it happens on all the biggest Wikipedia's - except the German and Swedish ones.
Any ideas how I fix this - or should I go on prozac?
FOUC?
http://www.bluerobot.com/web/css/fouc.asp
FOUCing hell - that is amazing! ... But it's not the jumping logo.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:DE_wikipedia_logo_jump_01.gif
Paul Youlten ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@wikimedia.org To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] jumping logo
"Paul" == Paul Youlten paul.youlten@gmail.com writes:
I know there are bigger things to worry about, but... I'm still having problems with my logo giving a little jump to the right on load - it happens on all the biggest Wikipedia's - except the German and Swedish ones.
Any ideas how I fix this - or should I go on prozac?
FOUC?
http://www.bluerobot.com/web/css/fouc.asp
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org