It's universally liked, is there almost on every wiki, and provides a much needed functionality. Why isn't this deployed as an extension, or better yet - part of core, than as a gadget? Just a matter of someone to do the work?
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
In general, because extensions are not as easy to maintain as wikipages are for Gadget developers. They don't WANT to use gerrit, git, go trough review, etc. It's the same reason why we have a ton of toolserver projects that could easily be extensions.
DJ
On 17 jul. 2013, at 23:52, Yuvi Panda yuvipanda@gmail.com wrote:
It's universally liked, is there almost on every wiki, and provides a much needed functionality. Why isn't this deployed as an extension, or better yet - part of core, than as a gadget? Just a matter of someone to do the work?
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Three years ago I would agree completely and immediately that it should be an extension, especially with localization in mind, but nowadays VE already does category editing quite well.
That said, VE still requires entering the editing mode and then clicking another button. Editing *only* categories is a very frequent scenario. An extension, or a kind of a VE module, that only edits categories would definitely be useful.
Please don't see it as stop energy - it's just a thought.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2013/7/18 Yuvi Panda yuvipanda@gmail.com:
It's universally liked, is there almost on every wiki, and provides a much needed functionality. Why isn't this deployed as an extension, or better yet - part of core, than as a gadget? Just a matter of someone to do the work?
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On 17 July 2013 18:05, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
Three years ago I would agree completely and immediately that it should be an extension, especially with localization in mind, but nowadays VE already does category editing quite well.
This might come as a surprise to those who are trying to use VE to categorize articles; we're not seeing a lot of positive effect on enwiki at present, although perhaps if all the bugs/enhancements are done it might be more workable. I think it would be unfair to the team working on VE right now to suggest that it should be all that close to the top priority, particularly as categorization is almost exclusively done by experienced editors.
I note that someone commented below about WikiLove. While it's a nice extension, it's also had to be disabled on multiple occasions on enwiki for various problems.
Risker
I'd really like to see a review process where Gadgets move from Gadget status to core. To me a Gadget is a great way to explore a new type of functionality and prove it's worth but it comes with a cost - it's very difficult to ensure a Gadget doesn't breaking with core changes or with the installation of some other extension/gadget. I can imagine this would also be the developer equivalent of a barn star - such a promotion I'd hope would be very flattering to authors and would encourage Gadget writing and innovation. Likewise if a gadget is not being used we should not leave it install on a wiki.
If people don't want to put their code through review this is scary to me - surely the standards of any code we put out to users should be of the highest quality..? We should not be scared of code review and see it as a positive thing that builds our knowledge up and makes us be the best we possibly can. If this is seen as a bad thing we really need to ask ourselves questions about the review process.
If people are scared of using Gerrit/Git we should create nicer interfaces into it.. no?
(Note for those not familiar with what HotCat is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:HotCat)
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Yuvi Panda yuvipanda@gmail.com wrote:
It's universally liked, is there almost on every wiki, and provides a much needed functionality. Why isn't this deployed as an extension, or better yet - part of core, than as a gadget? Just a matter of someone to do the work?
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Jon Robson http://jonrobson.me.uk @rakugojon
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 3:38 AM, Jon Robson jdlrobson@gmail.com wrote:
If people are scared of using Gerrit/Git we should create nicer interfaces into it.. no?
:)
This 'upgrade' happened to WikiLove, IIRC. Should also happen to HotCat, IMO.
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
Looking at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Gadget-HotCat.js, it probably could also be vastly simplified by jQuery-fying everything, and dropping support for ancient MW versions.
Perhaps there is already an extension that does this?
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
I agree with this. Just for those who want to take a look at the raw JavaScript code for HotCat: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-HotCat.js
It would probably take me a good week just to understand what's going on in that mess. **It has custom JSON and AJAX functions from when HotCat was developed without jQuery support.** You read that write. Not only does it use a normal edit form rather than attempting to do something with the API (because there is no API module for this), but it also has custom jQuery-like functions.
This could be vastly simplified with a nice extension. But, as said, if VE already has such a feature, maybe it's not even worth it...
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Jon Robson jdlrobson@gmail.com wrote:
I'd really like to see a review process where Gadgets move from Gadget status to core. To me a Gadget is a great way to explore a new type of functionality and prove it's worth but it comes with a cost - it's very difficult to ensure a Gadget doesn't breaking with core changes or with the installation of some other extension/gadget. I can imagine this would also be the developer equivalent of a barn star - such a promotion I'd hope would be very flattering to authors and would encourage Gadget writing and innovation. Likewise if a gadget is not being used we should not leave it install on a wiki.
If people don't want to put their code through review this is scary to me - surely the standards of any code we put out to users should be of the highest quality..? We should not be scared of code review and see it as a positive thing that builds our knowledge up and makes us be the best we possibly can. If this is seen as a bad thing we really need to ask ourselves questions about the review process.
If people are scared of using Gerrit/Git we should create nicer interfaces into it.. no?
(Note for those not familiar with what HotCat is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:HotCat)
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Yuvi Panda yuvipanda@gmail.com wrote:
It's universally liked, is there almost on every wiki, and provides a much needed functionality. Why isn't this deployed as an extension, or better yet - part of core, than as a gadget? Just a matter of someone to do the work?
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Jon Robson http://jonrobson.me.uk @rakugojon
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 3:48 AM, Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com wrote:
This could be vastly simplified with a nice extension. But, as said, if VE already has such a feature, maybe it's not even worth it...
Don't think so. Commons is a use case that comes to mind, but I am guessing that having a quick way to edit categories should exist independent of VE for all wikis regardless.
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
"If people don't want to put their code through review this is scary to me"
They do get their code reviewed. The rules are however usually simple 'it needs to work'. Not everyone has time to spend a gazillion hours on getting familiar with git, gerrit, jshint, git-review, resourceloader, i18n, l10n, the actual review lag, the deploy lag and I don't know what else.
Some ppl just want to edit categories super fast NOW. That's how these tools start and then these people are usually done. A bit of required maintenance, but that's it, they are editing/reviewing/categorizing again. Look at navpopups. With minor changes, that thing has been able to run basically unsupervised since 2006 and it is one of the most popular tools.
So people want to make extensions out of JS code, just do it, but some people don't and you should respect that.
To get what you want, you need:
1: Flagged revisions/review for .css/.js wikipages 2: CSS/JS editor for wikipage with JSHint integrated etc integrated 3: i18n support for gadgets. 4: Global repositories for gadgets 5: Integrated versioning and updating for 'installed' scripts 6: Autogenerated documentation
Then ppl will come flocking.
DJ
On 18 jul. 2013, at 00:08, Jon Robson jdlrobson@gmail.com wrote:
I'd really like to see a review process where Gadgets move from Gadget status to core. To me a Gadget is a great way to explore a new type of functionality and prove it's worth but it comes with a cost - it's very difficult to ensure a Gadget doesn't breaking with core changes or with the installation of some other extension/gadget. I can imagine this would also be the developer equivalent of a barn star - such a promotion I'd hope would be very flattering to authors and would encourage Gadget writing and innovation. Likewise if a gadget is not being used we should not leave it install on a wiki.
If people don't want to put their code through review this is scary to me - surely the standards of any code we put out to users should be of the highest quality..? We should not be scared of code review and see it as a positive thing that builds our knowledge up and makes us be the best we possibly can. If this is seen as a bad thing we really need to ask ourselves questions about the review process.
If people are scared of using Gerrit/Git we should create nicer interfaces into it.. no?
(Note for those not familiar with what HotCat is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:HotCat)
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Yuvi Panda yuvipanda@gmail.com wrote:
It's universally liked, is there almost on every wiki, and provides a much needed functionality. Why isn't this deployed as an extension, or better yet - part of core, than as a gadget? Just a matter of someone to do the work?
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Jon Robson http://jonrobson.me.uk @rakugojon
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Derk-Jan Hartman d.j.hartman+wmf_ml@gmail.com wrote:
"If people don't want to put their code through review this is scary to me"
They do get their code reviewed. The rules are however usually simple 'it needs to work'. Not everyone has time to spend a gazillion hours on getting familiar with git, gerrit, jshint, git-review, resourceloader, i18n, l10n, the actual review lag, the deploy lag and I don't know what else.
Some ppl just want to edit categories super fast NOW. That's how these tools start and then these people are usually done. A bit of required maintenance, but that's it, they are editing/reviewing/categorizing again. Look at navpopups. With minor changes, that thing has been able to run basically unsupervised since 2006 and it is one of the most popular tools.
This seems like a bad habit to have got ourselves into... All it takes is a trailing comma somewhere and a gadget could take out a whole browser. Likewise a bad usage of a css transition can completely kill site performance and make everything laggy. I'm not disagreeing that this workflow gets results - it obviously does - but I think we should be striving to identify good Gadgets and giving them love and attention for the good of everyone.
On 18 jul. 2013, at 00:25, Jon Robson jdlrobson@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Derk-Jan Hartman d.j.hartman+wmf_ml@gmail.com wrote:
"If people don't want to put their code through review this is scary to me"
They do get their code reviewed. The rules are however usually simple 'it needs to work'. Not everyone has time to spend a gazillion hours on getting familiar with git, gerrit, jshint, git-review, resourceloader, i18n, l10n, the actual review lag, the deploy lag and I don't know what else.
Some ppl just want to edit categories super fast NOW. That's how these tools start and then these people are usually done. A bit of required maintenance, but that's it, they are editing/reviewing/categorizing again. Look at navpopups. With minor changes, that thing has been able to run basically unsupervised since 2006 and it is one of the most popular tools.
This seems like a bad habit to have got ourselves into... All it takes is a trailing comma somewhere and a gadget could take out a whole browser. Likewise a bad usage of a css transition can completely kill site performance and make everything laggy. I'm not disagreeing that this workflow gets results - it obviously does - but I think we should be striving to identify good Gadgets and giving them love and attention for the good of everyone.
Like I said, I just don't think that Extensions and our current Developer workflow are a good fit for that love and attention.
DJ
Quick question, is there a way in the API (other than action=edit) to add/remove categories from a page? Because that seems to be one of the main things that would be holding this back from becoming an extension proper.
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Derk-Jan Hartman < d.j.hartman+wmf_ml@gmail.com> wrote:
On 18 jul. 2013, at 00:25, Jon Robson jdlrobson@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Derk-Jan Hartman d.j.hartman+wmf_ml@gmail.com wrote:
"If people don't want to put their code through review this is scary to
me"
They do get their code reviewed. The rules are however usually simple
'it needs to work'. Not everyone has time to spend a gazillion hours on getting familiar with git, gerrit, jshint, git-review, resourceloader, i18n, l10n, the actual review lag, the deploy lag and I don't know what else.
Some ppl just want to edit categories super fast NOW. That's how these
tools start and then these people are usually done. A bit of required maintenance, but that's it, they are editing/reviewing/categorizing again. Look at navpopups. With minor changes, that thing has been able to run basically unsupervised since 2006 and it is one of the most popular tools.
This seems like a bad habit to have got ourselves into... All it takes is a trailing comma somewhere and a gadget could take out a whole browser. Likewise a bad usage of a css transition can completely kill site performance and make everything laggy. I'm not disagreeing that this workflow gets results - it obviously does - but I think we should be striving to identify good Gadgets and giving them love and attention for the good of everyone.
Like I said, I just don't think that Extensions and our current Developer workflow are a good fit for that love and attention.
DJ _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:06 AM, Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com wrote:
Quick question, is there a way in the API (other than action=edit) to add/remove categories from a page? Because that seems to be one of the main things that would be holding this back from becoming an extension proper.
There isn't currently (we hit this in the mobile commons app). Currently we have to get the wikitext, parse out the categories (eek wikitext), and then add/replace/edit them. Regexes all over. Not fun.
But fixing that would take a lot more work, I think.
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
Had a quick chat with jared Zimmerman (cced) around this (who's not on this mailing list)
He says: "HotCat is number one on my list of gadgets to get some UX love and turn into a beta experiment... If everything goes well while its in experiments then it gets integrated into core extensions. Mark H. is coding the desktop beta experiments framework right now (literally while I write this email)"
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Yuvi Panda yuvipanda@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:06 AM, Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com wrote:
Quick question, is there a way in the API (other than action=edit) to add/remove categories from a page? Because that seems to be one of the main things that would be holding this back from becoming an extension proper.
There isn't currently (we hit this in the mobile commons app). Currently we have to get the wikitext, parse out the categories (eek wikitext), and then add/replace/edit them. Regexes all over. Not fun.
But fixing that would take a lot more work, I think.
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Jon Robson jdlrobson@gmail.com wrote:
He says: "HotCat is number one on my list of gadgets to get some UX love and turn into a beta experiment... If everything goes well while its in experiments then it gets integrated into core extensions. Mark H. is coding the desktop beta experiments framework right now (literally while I write this email)"
Can you explain what this means? Is hexmode writing HotCat? Is he writing a framework to enable experiments on desktop? Was that discussed / announced anywhere?
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
CC Lupo, who is the primary maintainer of that Gadget for years.
DJ
On 18 jul. 2013, at 01:27, Jon Robson jdlrobson@gmail.com wrote:
Had a quick chat with jared Zimmerman (cced) around this (who's not on this mailing list)
He says: "HotCat is number one on my list of gadgets to get some UX love and turn into a beta experiment... If everything goes well while its in experiments then it gets integrated into core extensions. Mark H. is coding the desktop beta experiments framework right now (literally while I write this email)"
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Yuvi Panda yuvipanda@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:06 AM, Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com wrote:
Quick question, is there a way in the API (other than action=edit) to add/remove categories from a page? Because that seems to be one of the main things that would be holding this back from becoming an extension proper.
There isn't currently (we hit this in the mobile commons app). Currently we have to get the wikitext, parse out the categories (eek wikitext), and then add/replace/edit them. Regexes all over. Not fun.
But fixing that would take a lot more work, I think.
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Jon Robson http://jonrobson.me.uk @rakugojon
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Parsoid would make pulling out and editing the category tags much easier. This might be an interesting test case for the parsoid-DOM future. --scott On Jul 17, 2013 6:41 PM, "Yuvi Panda" yuvipanda@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:06 AM, Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com wrote:
Quick question, is there a way in the API (other than action=edit) to add/remove categories from a page? Because that seems to be one of the
main
things that would be holding this back from becoming an extension proper.
There isn't currently (we hit this in the mobile commons app). Currently we have to get the wikitext, parse out the categories (eek wikitext), and then add/replace/edit them. Regexes all over. Not fun.
But fixing that would take a lot more work, I think.
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Tyler Romeo wrote:
Quick question, is there a way in the API (other than action=edit) to add/remove categories from a page? Because that seems to be one of the main things that would be holding this back from becoming an extension proper.
In my view, this kind of misses the point entirely: if MediaWiki had a proper API or UI for adding and removing categories (or other metadata), a gadget like HotCat would be almost completely unnecessary. :-) HotCat exists to fill a void left by MediaWiki.
Those interested in this issue can copy themselves on this bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27312.
MZMcBride
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 1:23 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
In my view, this kind of misses the point entirely: if MediaWiki had a proper API or UI for adding and removing categories (or other metadata), a gadget like HotCat would be almost completely unnecessary. :-) HotCat exists to fill a void left by MediaWiki.
Those interested in this issue can copy themselves on this bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27312.
Well I managed to make a quick script that can add/remove categories from wikitext pages (I basically copy/pasted Parser::replaceInternalLinks2). That way at least the category removal happens in PHP and not in JavaScript.
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
Le 18/07/13 19:23, MZMcBride a écrit :
In my view, this kind of misses the point entirely: if MediaWiki had a proper API or UI for adding and removing categories (or other metadata), a gadget like HotCat would be almost completely unnecessary. :-) HotCat exists to fill a void left by MediaWiki.
Lets move the categories in wikidata ? =)
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Antoine Musso hashar+wmf@free.fr wrote:
Lets move the categories in wikidata ? =)
That'd be nice, but how much time would that take to develop?
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On 18 July 2013 22:07, Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Antoine Musso hashar+wmf@free.fr wrote:
Lets move the categories in wikidata ? =)
That'd be nice, but how much time would that take to develop?
They're local to each wiki, but they should indeed be metadata.
- d.
On 18 July 2013 17:18, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 18 July 2013 22:07, Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Antoine Musso hashar+wmf@free.fr
wrote:
Lets move the categories in wikidata ? =)
That'd be nice, but how much time would that take to develop?
They're local to each wiki, but they should indeed be metadata.
What David said. I'm not sure that Wikidata is the right place for very local issues (sockpuppet categories, for example). There seems to be a fairly significant variance between projects in how they categorize pages, as well, particularly as we add sister projects to the mix.
Risker
So, summarizing:
1. MarkTraceur (and the Multimedia Team) is working on a way to do 'beta experiments' on live wikis that do not involve things being left to be Gadgets all the time. This can also eventually help 'promote' gadgets into Extensions / Core. 2. Tyler is working on an Extension for this (or it might already exist, as Krinkle pointed out)
So, is HotCat replacement extension going to plug into the Beta Experiments thingy Mark is working on? I suppose there'll be docs on that at some point of time...
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
On 07/18/2013 05:43 PM, Yuvi Panda wrote:
So, is HotCat replacement extension going to plug into the Beta Experiments thingy Mark is working on? I suppose there'll be docs on that at some point of time...
There are some: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:BetaFeatures
Matt Flaschen
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Yuvi Panda yuvipanda@gmail.com wrote:
- Tyler is working on an Extension for this (or it might already
exist, as Krinkle pointed out)
I looked at the extension Krinkle pointed out, and it's similar to HotCat in that it's completely JavaScript. I'm hoping to make an API module for adding/removing categories (it won't be a redesign, it just moves the parsing and removing logic to PHP), and then from there use JavaScript to call that.
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On 07/18/2013 06:00 PM, Tyler Romeo wrote:
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Yuvi Panda yuvipanda@gmail.com wrote:
- Tyler is working on an Extension for this (or it might already
exist, as Krinkle pointed out)
I looked at the extension Krinkle pointed out, and it's similar to HotCat in that it's completely JavaScript. I'm hoping to make an API module for adding/removing categories (it won't be a redesign, it just moves the parsing and removing logic to PHP), and then from there use JavaScript to call that.
You should consider putting the API module in core, since other projects (including Mobile) have had demand for it.
Matt Flaschen
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 4:08 AM, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.org wrote:
You should consider putting the API module in core, since other projects (including Mobile) have had demand for it.
+1.
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 6:38 PM, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.orgwrote:
You should consider putting the API module in core, since other projects (including Mobile) have had demand for it.
Will do.
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On 07/18/2013 04:04 PM, Antoine Musso wrote:
Le 18/07/13 19:23, MZMcBride a écrit :
In my view, this kind of misses the point entirely: if MediaWiki had a proper API or UI for adding and removing categories (or other metadata), a gadget like HotCat would be almost completely unnecessary. :-) HotCat exists to fill a void left by MediaWiki.
Lets move the categories in wikidata ? =)
Not all data fits the Wikidata data model in a clear way, and categories are probably best kept local for now.
Matt Flaschen
On 07/17/2013 06:25 PM, Jon Robson wrote:
This seems like a bad habit to have got ourselves into... All it takes is a trailing comma somewhere and a gadget could take out a whole browser.
Browsers should not crash due buggy JavaScript. It happens, but in my experience it's not as common as people think.
More importantly, all it takes is one trivial edit to disable a broken gadget.
I'm not disagreeing that this workflow gets results - it obviously does - but I think we should be striving to identify good Gadgets and giving them love and attention for the good of everyone.
I completely agree that there are gadgets that could beneficially be made into extensions or (at least partly) moved to core. And a lot of gadgets could certainly benefit from modernization.
But I don't think we should act like gadgets are a bad thing, merely because they aren't written the same way an extension or core is.
We do need to ensure gadgets are secure and useful. But there's a clear benefit to the way they're developed with fewer constraints, both for experimentation and for local wiki flexibility (flexibility which everyone, including the WMF, has benefited from).
Speaking as a long-time Wikipedian, gadget developer, constant user of useful gadgets (from Navigation popups to Hotcat and more), and now WMF software engineer.
Matt Flaschen
Derk-Jan,
Thanks for that list; I know I'll be coming back to it as my team works to reach out to gadget and userscript developers in the future.
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Derk-Jan Hartman d.j.hartman+wmf_ml@gmail.com wrote: ...
To get what you want, you need:
...
3: i18n support for gadgets. 4: Global repositories for gadgets
aka https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gadgets_2.0
6: Autogenerated documentation
See also: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-January/065751.html
On 07/18/2013 12:08 AM, Jon Robson wrote:
If people don't want to put their code through review this is scary to me - surely the standards of any code we put out to users should be of the highest quality..?
Does it also scare you that people in general prefer Wikipedia over Nupedia? Think of the dynamic effects that were unleashed in 2001 when wiki replaced the formalism of Nupedia, and how all this code review formalism holds creativity back.
2013/7/17 Yuvi Panda yuvipanda@gmail.com
It's universally liked, is there almost on every wiki, and provides a much needed functionality.
Note that this might not be the same version: for example, the HotCatsMulti [1] deployed on the French-language Wikipedia is a fork of the Commons HotCat (from before it had multicategories support, ie a long time ago).
[1] < https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Gadget-HotCatsMulti.js > < https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:JavaScript/Notices/HotCatsMulti >
On Jul 17, 2013, at 11:52 PM, Yuvi Panda yuvipanda@gmail.com wrote:
It's universally liked, is there almost on every wiki, and provides a much needed functionality. Why isn't this deployed as an extension, or better yet - part of core, than as a gadget? Just a matter of someone to do the work?
-- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:InlineCategorizer
-- Krinkle
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org