I just want to be absolutely clear, for the purposes of solving this problem and staying on topic, we are *not* discussing:
* Whether VE is a good product or not (it clearly is) * Whether VE should be deployed or not (it already is) * Whether VE should have an option to be disabled (it already has)
The real root of this discussion is whether or not the method through which VE is disabled is done as a Gadget or as a user preference. Both methods are already implemented, it's just a matter of a configuration variable.
With that said, I'd like to see more points on what real motivation there is to force users to have a gadget to do something that an existing user preference already does.
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Derric Atzrott < datzrott@alizeepathology.com> wrote:
However, from a user's standpoint, it still doesn't make a ton of sense to do it that way. If I just want to add a category, I shouldn't have to invoke an editing surface at all. Similarly, if I want to turn a page into a redirect, I shouldn't have to edit the page at all. As most of you know, some gadgets like HotCat already operate on a similar principle.
Why should VE be doing this if you're not entering the editor. HotCat (and the future extension based on it) can handle categories just fine. The VE team should focus on fixing its current issues before attempting to introduce new features.
I agree with Tyler here. This should really be deployed as a separate extension that perhaps makes use of Visual Editor. I also agree with the sentiment that we need to fix the current issues before we try to add more features, though looking towards the future is still reasonable.
Also I don't see why we can't work out that problem though when it arrives. Currently we have a very immediate issue though of the masses politely requesting and then demanding that this option be added back. If we need to remove it again later, I don't see why we can't.
There were a large number of us who argued that this deployment was inappropriate to begin with, and I personally still stand by that. Visual Editor is not yet ready for the masses and the masses have made it clear that they don't want to use it (see source edits vs visual edits as discussed earlier). We're not asking that you disable Visual Editor as the default editor, if you still feel that it needs to be the default in order to collect the data you need for bug testing, that's fine by me (though I continue to disagree with the decision), go ahead and do that. For the people though that do not foresee themselves using Visual Editor anytime soon, it would be nice for them to have an option that isn’t a hack.
I know I'm repeating arguments here that have already been covered in previous posts, but I really think that adding the option back is the way to go. I would go as far as to say enable the option and then continue the discussion as to whether or not the option is appropriate. Every day that passes that it is not around is another huge PR hit for all of us developer types.
From what I have seen on this mailing list the past few days, please correct me if I am wrong, is that the community feels frustrated that the product team for Visual Editor is failing to acknowledge their needs. Enabling this preference would likely clear the air a lot and allow us to have a much saner discussion as to the direction this project needs to go.
Thank you, Derric Atzrott
ps. Really looking forward to when Visual Editor is done. This has been the most exciting extension I've seen in a long time and I really do want it to succeed. I've seen a large many people turned off by Wikitext, but we can't afford to create the rift we are making right now.
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