The first and last paras are particularly worth quoting:
Earlier this year I pulled out of a conference because the organiser and I disagreed on code of conducts. Specifically I thought there should be one, and he did not. He did eventually add one, but refused to define unacceptable behaviour. Myself and another woman pulled out.
...
I don’t feel safe because there is a code of conduct. But I tell you one thing that makes me feel unsafe – men who will endlessly, vociferously argue against them. Maybe a code of conduct isn’t meaningful. But at this point, refusing to listen, refusing to have one. Well, that is.
- d.
On 5 September 2015 at 23:07, Oliver Keyes okeyes@wikimedia.org wrote:
On the general subject of codes of conduct and what they bring (or don't bring) in terms of user safety and a sense of inclusion, I recently encountered http://www.catehuston.com/blog/2015/09/02/code-of-conducts-and-worthless-man... on Twitter - it's an interesting read and brings up a couple of points definitely worth thinking about, namely that the intent behind a CoC is not to be the be-all and end-all of user safety but instead to set a very minimum bound of what is acceptable.
On 5 September 2015 at 17:39, Oliver Keyes okeyes@wikimedia.org wrote:
Why don't you comment on any of the three links provided in the email you're replying to? That seems like an obvious venue for concerns you might have.
On 5 September 2015 at 17:32, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Matthew Flaschen mflaschen@wikimedia.org wrote:
There is consensus at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Code_of_conduct_for_technical_spaces/Dra... that the best way to finalize the CoC draft is to focus on a few sections at once (while still allowing people to comment on other ones). This allows progress without requiring people to monitor all sections at once and lets us separate the questions of “what are our goals here?” and “how should this work?”. After these sections are finalized, I recommend minimizing or avoiding later substantive changes to them.
The first sections being finalized are the intro (text before the Principles section), Principles, and Unacceptable behavior. These have been discussed on the talk page for the last two weeks, and appear to have stabilized.
However, there may still be points that need to be refined. Please participate in building consensus on final versions of these sections:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Code_of_conduct_for_technical_spaces/Dra...
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_conduct_for_technical_spaces/Draft
If you are not comfortable contributing to this discussion under your name or a pseudonym, you can email your feedback or suggestions to conduct-discussion@wikimedia.org . Quim Gil, Frances Hocutt, and Kalliope Tsouroupidou will be monitoring this address and will anonymously bring the points raised into the discussion at your request.
lol, consensus among whom, to what? i am against it (i'd love to send the reasons in another mail though), do i count, and it is still consensus? probably not, because i did maybe two unimportant commits for kiwix. i would prefer if you would be so kind to define one measurable criteria for the question "do we need a code of conduct", no matter if entry or success criteria. e.g
- 50 volunteers from different part of the world saying that we need it
- 20% of committers want it
- after one year 20% more volunteer commits are done
other critieria like "people attending conferences", or "mails written" would be a bad idea, as the goal is to have more contributions, not more conference tourists or mailing list tourists. what you think, matt, or quim ?
best, rupert _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Oliver Keyes Count Logula Wikimedia Foundation
-- Oliver Keyes Count Logula Wikimedia Foundation
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