On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 9:52 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
On 5 April 2013 22:24, phoebe ayers phoebe.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
On 5 April 2013 19:07, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintscher@wikimedia.de wrote:
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 1:00 AM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Sorry, I don't know what this means. I thought Wikidata was already deployed to the English Wikipedia (and possibly other projects as
well).
I've posted an announcement with more details on the technical
village
pump at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Wikidata_pha...
Let me know if anything is still unclear so I can clarify.
Cheers Lydia
Lydia, could you please point me to the discussion on *English
Wikipedia*
where the community indicated an interest in deploying this software? Infoboxes and sourcing to another website completely outside the
control
of
English Wikipedia is a rather big issue, and I would expect to see a Request for Comment with at least 200-300 participants.
Risker/Anne
In my opinion, as a casual Wikidata editor and not-so-casual Wikipedia editor, I think the Commons analogy continues to hold up pretty well. Commons exists. We can use it, as a project. We don't *have* to (and
indeed
don't always, on en:wp, where fair use images are accepted). As I understand it, the same is true with Wikidata -- it will be around, if
and
when it seems appropriate to use. Of course Commons and Wikidata will
both
be more useful and more awesome the more projects do use them. But my
very
non-technical understanding of this deployment is that basically we made the projects able to see that Wikidata exists (correct me if I'm wrong!)
Now as far as I can tell there's a whole lot of work yet to do in order
to
figure out how exactly one might link to data or produce an infobox and what that might look like -- deployment does not seem to mean ready for prime-time, yet -- and of course the data-building itself is just barely getting started. Best practices for infoboxes does seem like a
project-wide
RFC to me. But hopefully, when we get to that point, wikidata will be a useful option.
Well, the problem is that we *are* at that point now. Wikidata II *is* intended to be used in infoboxes. We already have edit skirmishes happening all over the project with people adding infoboxes where they aren't wanted, explicitly to take advantage of wikidata, and using wikidata as their excuse to bring it in.
I fail to see how that's a Wikidata issue. It seems more like a conduct or disagreement between editors.
Load it up, okay. But don't turn it on until the
community discusses whether or not it wants it turned on. It's simply contemptuous of the community to do that. You know as well as I do that as soon as a feature is available, it's used by some people who will fight to the death to keep using it, whether or not it is what the community wants.
The community doesn't vote for every single feature turned on on English Wikipedia. Was their a vote for Scribunto? VisualEditor? PostEdit? Nope. They just got turned on and people lived with it.
(See revision deletion which, as soon as it was turned on for administrators on English Wikipedia before the process had been worked out, immediately resulted in tens of thousands of inappropriate revision deletions in its first week. Even now, at least 30% of revision deletions are inappropriate.) You want to keep editors, you need to actually make sure that the changes you are adding are what they want, not what they'll leave over.
Wikidata is a knowledge base. It's up to individual projects/editors on how to use it. We can try and help, but if people use it incorrectly, there's only so much we (Wikidatians) can do.
I disagree that the Commons analogy holds up. Commons is very active, and easily accessible, and it's pretty obvious how to remove unwanted images/media. It is *not* obvious how to remove wikidata, and it is a site that is extremely not user friendly (I've checked, and even got someone to give me a tour, and it makes wikitext look simple).
Wikidata is even more active than commons (https://wikipulse.herokuapp.com/) but you're right, it might not be immediately obvious what to do. Is Help:Editing (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Editing) not good enough? Maybe we need a better tutorial?
There is a rather big difference between images to articles, which aren't essential but are very complementary, and the information contained in an article. We know for a fact that there are many different versions of even supposedly factual data (dates of birth for well-known people, names of battles, Gdansk/Danzig, etc). In many cases, there has been a careful and sometimes very delicate consensus reached by local editors to address these variations. Now we will have infoboxes with one version and the actual article saying something else - and the information in the infobox will be outside of the control of the editors of the article absent going to another site. So now those wars about content will have to go to two sites at once, one of which will be international. So that means users who have never logged into Wikipedia will have the ability to control the content of the project.
So? You just set up the infobox to have a local override if the field is filled in. Using this data is *optional*. If you want it, use it! If not, it's there if you ever change your mind.
Let's not put this in place until the community decides whether or not it wants it.
Hasn't the community been asking for interwiki transclusion for a while now? Personally I just see this as the first step to that.
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