Ray Saintonge wrote:
Tim Starling wrote:
This comes from a thread on wikitech-l, I'm cross-posting it to wikipedia-l. Please reply on one list only.
Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, When developers aren't interested in working on functionality for the various projects of the foundation, we should find developers that are.
Who is "we"? I joined Wikipedia well before the Foundation was formed, I've watched it develop. I can't help but feel that myself and those who share my views are underrepresented. I've argued for focus but I've been ignored. Wikipedia has grown but has barely matured, the date for "Wikipedia 1.0" keeps being pushed back with virtually no progress made. Instead, any enthusiastic newcomer with an idea for a word we can prepend "wiki" to is greeted with open arms, especially if they come bearing money.
I can't comment on the money aspect, but apart from that there is much to what you say. I find Gerard's comment somewhat increditible, and totally failing to understand people. Imagine firing all the developers who do not jump to bring out someone's pet project! :-D I wonder what his next trick would be. I don't have the zeal for a lot of gadgety features, I very much prefer a solid system that works with a high degree of predictability. I see Gerard trumpeting his Ultimate Wiktionary, yet he disclaims ability to programme this project. I agree with you about the 1.0 but I see the problems there as being more social than technical. ... and that just brings us back to the question of leadership.
Who gives you the impression that programmers are to be fired ? What gives you this idea ? The idea is to find programmers that are willing to develop the functionality that is asked for. So if anything I am looking for more developers. As to my programming skills, I have quite a bit of experience but on different platforms. I have been spending my time on other things than learning new platforms and programming languages. A more relevant question on programming; would you prefer me to program Ultimate Wiktionary or would you prefer Erik Moeller ? I understand the complexity involved so I am happy to have a more able person do the programming.
It would be all very well if Wikipedia could manage itself, but I don't think it can, I think it lacks strong leadership. I don't think it's any surprise that the German Wikipedia, with enthusiastic leadership largely independent of the Foundation, has had more success with distribution and quality control than the English Wikipedia.
The projects long ago passed the point where one person could maintain leadership over everything. Some of the democracy that I've seen around has only served to strengthen my faith in dictatorship. Sometimes leadership a question of decisiveness when the need to take action becomes stronger than being right or wrong. We are attractive to those who on a mass scale would recreate their ersatz world of diletantes and poetasters with a historical perspective as deep as the latest video game. Policy discussions go around in circles with no-one knowing how, or having the courage to escape from the circle.
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If you want to break out of endless talk, stop talking and do something. It is possible to get many things done. It is just a matter of doing them. What you have to try to do is to explain what you are doing. The process of Ultimate Wiktionary is a lengthy one, it will have taken a year to go from initial concept to realisation. It is an experiment so it will at first be running next to the existing wiktionaries. The problems will proppably be solved and when it has proven itself, wiktionaries will die off. It it does not they will not. So yes, you may accuse me of decisiveness because I have a dream and I work on making it a reality. When people do not understand what I am working on, I am happy to explain. When you call for dictatorship, you mean that you want things your way. I urge you to create your way and make plain why your way is best. You do this by proving your point practically not by rubbishing other people's efforts.
Thanks, GerardM
PS There are plenty of other tricks. I do publish about them, they are not a secret.