Having personally been subject of a case of sexual harassment at an unrelated event a few years back where I was supposedly the victim, I have to wonder even about those. Seriously, what the hell /is/ sexual harassment? Because in my case, apparently me butting into a conversation just to be an arse constituted me being sexually harassed, which... just... what? (I only found out about this at all because it was in the godsdamn news.)
Meanwhile we probably actually have real cases of folks being harassed or even assaulted and they don't even realise that's what's going on either because everything's all hushy hush and they've no sensible examples of what's worth going to help for themselves, or anything to show what is or isn't apt to just blow up in their face in practice so they actually feel /safe/ doing so. Seriously, if we don't talk about this stuff, how is anyone supposed to learn from it? How the hell is the current code of conduct supposed to be refined? How are we as a community supposed to address any existing issues?
Obviously we need something to protect the folks involved, but this is just a mess as is. I haven't even felt at all safe going to the CoC folks about other things that have happened in venues subject to the CoC, for much the same reason, and while that was just incidents of frayed nerves overflowing and someone yelling at me for what turned out to be a total miscommunication anyway, I wound up having to remove myself from a D&D game I was a part of as a result because I just couldn't focus properly on anything for awhile afterwards AND YOU KNOW IT WOULD SURE HELP IF WE HAD REASONABLE PEOPLE TO GO TO TO JUST... HELP SMOOTH THINGS OVER AND TELL US IT'S OKAY OR STUFF. WITHOUT HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING BEING MADE WORSE FOR ANYONE INVOLVED OR GETTING BANNED OURSELVES OR CRAP.
Feckin'...
-I
On 08/08/18 20:29, Amir Ladsgroup wrote:
Taking my coc hat off, I'm not representing the committee at all. Several things have been misunderstood imo. I want to address them.
- The use of profanity is not prohibited by the COC, using them against
others or for unconstructive reasons is. If you see the whole discussion, you could clearly see the comment is not made to move discussion forward. These are clear case of disruptive actions. 1.1) the response to these violations depends on the user, very similar to what Wikipedia does. If it was the first case reported about Mz, they wouldn't get this ban. 2) the duration of block which is for one week was determined and communicated in the email. You can check the email as it's public now. 3) not being able to discuss cases clearly also bothers me too as I can't clarify points. But these secrecy is there for a reason. We have cases of sexual harassment in Wikimedia events, do you want us to communicate those too? And if not, where and who supposed to draw the line between public and non-public cases? I'm very much for more transparency but if we don't iron things out before implementing them, it will end up as a disaster.
Sent on my phone, on a vacation. Best On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 21:49 Chad innocentkiller@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 11:48 AM bawolff bawolff+wn@gmail.com wrote:
So MZMcBride is temporarily banned for an unspecified amount of time. I have some concerns: a) The fact all these are secret is a recipe for FUD and misunderstandings. From accusations of partiality of the committee to people being unblocked because people think its an accident, are all natural consequences of things being secret. I think this is bound to create a negative environment in the long term.
This.
b) What is the point of blocking him temporarily and not telling him how long he's banned for. That's just silly.
I'm going to quote someone out of context here, but I think it establishes the point I'd like to make:
"temporary solutions have a terrible habit of becoming permanent, around here"
-Chad _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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