Hi again, I know you probably haven't heard much from me recently. I've been away from Wikipedia for a while due to commitments, but still have a keen interest. I don't know if you've ever come across the website MerrionSteet.ie . It is the "Irish Government News Service". It has a collection of all of the press releases from government departments, as well as images. Previously, the images were under a Creative Commons licence, but recently changed them to full Copyright. The old licence was not acceptable for Wikipedia. Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish governments, release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it was appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC licence (suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain. Regards,Colm King(cargoking)
On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish governments, release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it was appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC licence (suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
- d.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish
governments,
release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it
was
appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC
licence
(suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be
repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone willing to do the legwork?
Cheers,
Asaf
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish
governments,
release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it
was
appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC
licence
(suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be
repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone willing to do the legwork?
So... no?
Asaf
Legwork? I'd be prepared to draft an email/do the research. Colm From: abartov@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:06:38 -0700 To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] MerrionStreet.ie
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish governments,
release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it was
appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC licence
(suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made
into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain
copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone willing to do the legwork?
So... no?
Asaf
Hi Folks,
I have a contact who works in the Dept of Taoiseach. She said to direct any queries about MerrionStreet.ie to editor@merrionstreet.ie
If there's anything else I can do please let me know,
Thanks,
Aisling
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Legwork? I'd be prepared to draft an email/do the research.
Colm
From: abartov@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:06:38 -0700
To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] MerrionStreet.ie
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish
governments,
release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it
was
appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC
licence
(suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be
repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone willing to do the legwork?
So... no?
Asaf-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation
_______________________________________________ WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
Hey guys,
Was away on holidays for a few weeks. Did anything more happen around this? Would be willing to put effort into campaigning (letter writing, phone calling, shoe leather, miscellaneous money, etc.) into this.
I think it would be a very important achievement and not entirely unrealistic.
Oliver
On 29 Jun 2011, at 00:18, Aisling Walsh wrote:
Hi Folks,
I have a contact who works in the Dept of Taoiseach. She said to direct any queries about MerrionStreet.ie to editor@merrionstreet.ie
If there's anything else I can do please let me know,
Thanks,
Aisling
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Legwork? I'd be prepared to draft an email/do the research.
Colm From: abartov@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:06:38 -0700
To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] MerrionStreet.ie
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote: On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote: On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish governments, release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it was appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC licence (suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone willing to do the legwork?
So... no?
Asaf-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation
_______________________________________________ WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
I'm willing to lend a hand in this regard.
-Gabriel
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Hey guys,
Was away on holidays for a few weeks. Did anything more happen around this? Would be willing to put effort into campaigning (letter writing, phone calling, shoe leather, miscellaneous money, etc.) into this.
I think it would be a very important achievement and not entirely unrealistic.
Oliver
On 29 Jun 2011, at 00:18, Aisling Walsh wrote:
Hi Folks,
I have a contact who works in the Dept of Taoiseach. She said to direct any queries about MerrionStreet.ie to editor@merrionstreet.ie
If there's anything else I can do please let me know,
Thanks,
Aisling
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Legwork? I'd be prepared to draft an email/do the research.
Colm
From: abartov@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:06:38 -0700
To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] MerrionStreet.ie
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish
governments,
release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it
was
appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC
licence
(suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be
repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone willing to do the legwork?
So... no?
Asaf-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation
_______________________________________________ WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
Thanks, Gabriel. Aisling and Colm, are you still interested in pursuing this? Jodi, are you interested too? I'm going to contact some people I know offline who may be interested in lending a hand also. Anybody else willing to lend a hand? Or any ideas out there for how we might approach this?
We might also contact the folks at Creative Commons Ireland (http://www.ucc.ie/law/irishlaw/creativecommons/). They may have a sounder understanding of the legal issues involved and may be able to advise us. I see they have already ported a draft the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA to Irish law:
- http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Ireland/3.0/BY-NC-SA/Draft
We might need a full port of a Wikipedia compatible CC license to Irish law before we can definitively ask the government to switch over to one. Is there anyone from Creative Commons Ireland already on this list?
I have done a little reading of the Merrion Street site and dug a little into the issues involved. From that, I see there is a relevant European Directive that requires member states to "ensure that practical arrangements are put in place that facilitate the search for documents available for re-use":
- http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/psi/docs/pdfs/directive/psi_d...
This has been transposed into Irish law under the Statutory Instrument (SI) European Communities (Re-Use of Public Sector Information) Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005). There appears to have been a follow up Statutory Instrument in 2008:
- 2005: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/si/0279.html - 2008: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/si/0103.html
(I haven't read these yet.)
All material on the Merrion Street website (beyond permission for linking, downloading and printing) "is subject to the terms of the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005)." Third-party material is excluded from that permission (what proportion of the site is third-party, I don't know).
Additionally, the copyright page says, "You may re-use the information on this website free of charge in any format." What the implications of that is, I don't know.
As part of the 2005 Statutory Instrument, it seems that a standard license (the "PSI license") was prepared for public material:
- http://psi.gov.ie/files/2010/03/PSI-Licence.pdf
I don't know if this license is Wikipedia compatible. If it is, we may be onto a winner and can just lobby for this license to be used more widely. If it is not, then we may have a fight on our hands.
Given that Merrion Street recently used a CC-BY-NC-ND license, the PSI license may not be widely used. Also, as Colm noted, they have recently changed to "all rights reserved". I don't know what this means with respect to the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations (or if it even applies) or how widely used the PSI license is within the public service.
One tack we might take is to see what aspects of the current PSI license would need to change before it would be compatible with Wikipedia. If there are any copyright lawyers out there — or if we can convince the CC people to help us here — then we could go to the government with something solid. (This is assuming the current license is incompatible.)
Finally, under the appropriate regulations, it would seem that the Minister for Finance (don't ask me why) is the relevant minister for the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulation. A website dealing with information on the Re-use of Public Sector Information is here:
So, in summary, from my quick look four approaches pop out at me:
- Port a Wikipedia-compaitble CC licence to Irish law and convince the Merrion Street (or the Government) to use that. - Identify what aspects of the current PSI license is incompatibe with respect to WIkipeida, convince the Government to change (or adopt it as a secondary license) it and implement it widely (including on Merrion Street). - Lobby directly for Merrion Street to use a Wikipedia-compatible license (port or not) for some or all of it's material. - Develop a relationship with Merrion Street and other agencies so that we can ask them for specific material (or sets of material), which they will release to us under a compatible license at their discretion.
No matter the approach, I think a copyright lawyer would be of great assistance to us.
Best, Oliver
On 14 Jul 2011, at 23:28, Gabriel Beecham wrote:
I'm willing to lend a hand in this regard.
-Gabriel
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys,
Was away on holidays for a few weeks. Did anything more happen around this? Would be willing to put effort into campaigning (letter writing, phone calling, shoe leather, miscellaneous money, etc.) into this.
I think it would be a very important achievement and not entirely unrealistic.
Oliver
On 29 Jun 2011, at 00:18, Aisling Walsh wrote:
Hi Folks,
I have a contact who works in the Dept of Taoiseach. She said to direct any queries about MerrionStreet.ie to editor@merrionstreet.ie
If there's anything else I can do please let me know,
Thanks,
Aisling
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Legwork? I'd be prepared to draft an email/do the research.
Colm From: abartov@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:06:38 -0700
To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] MerrionStreet.ie
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote: On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote: On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish governments, release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it was appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC licence (suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone willing to do the legwork?
So... no?
Asaf-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation
_______________________________________________ WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Thanks, Gabriel. Aisling and Colm, are you still interested in pursuing this? Jodi, are you interested too?
Supporting in principle -- but my time is booked! -J
I'm going to contact some people I know offline who may be interested in lending a hand also. Anybody else willing to lend a hand? Or any ideas out there for how we might approach this?
We might also contact the folks at Creative Commons Ireland ( http://www.ucc.ie/law/irishlaw/creativecommons/). They may have a sounder understanding of the legal issues involved and may be able to advise us. I see they have already ported a draft the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA to Irish law:
We might need a full port of a Wikipedia compatible CC license to Irish law before we can definitively ask the government to switch over to one. Is there anyone from Creative Commons Ireland already on this list?
I have done a little reading of the Merrion Street site and dug a little into the issues involved. From that, I see there is a relevant European Directive that requires member states to "ensure that practical arrangements are put in place that facilitate the search for documents available for re-use":
http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/psi/docs/pdfs/directive/psi_d...
This has been transposed into Irish law under the Statutory Instrument (SI) European Communities (Re-Use of Public Sector Information) Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005). There appears to have been a follow up Statutory Instrument in 2008:
- 2005: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/si/0279.html
- 2008: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/si/0103.html
(I haven't read these yet.)
All material on the Merrion Street website (beyond permission for linking, downloading and printing) "is subject to the terms of the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005)." Third-party material is excluded from that permission (what proportion of the site is third-party, I don't know).
Additionally, the copyright page says, "You may re-use the information on this website free of charge in any format." What the implications of that is, I don't know.
As part of the 2005 Statutory Instrument, it seems that a standard license (the "PSI license") was prepared for public material:
I don't know if this license is Wikipedia compatible. If it is, we may be onto a winner and can just lobby for this license to be used more widely. If it is not, then we may have a fight on our hands.
Given that Merrion Street recently used a CC-BY-NC-ND license, the PSI license may not be widely used. Also, as Colm noted, they have recently changed to "all rights reserved". I don't know what this means with respect to the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations (or if it even applies) or how widely used the PSI license is within the public service.
One tack we might take is to see what aspects of the current PSI license would need to change before it would be compatible with Wikipedia. If there are any copyright lawyers out there — or if we can convince the CC people to help us here — then we could go to the government with something solid. (This is assuming the current license is incompatible.)
Finally, under the appropriate regulations, it would seem that the Minister for Finance (don't ask me why) is the relevant minister for the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulation. A website dealing with information on the Re-use of Public Sector Information is here:
So, in summary, from my quick look four approaches pop out at me:
- Port a Wikipedia-compaitble CC licence to Irish law and convince the
Merrion Street (or the Government) to use that.
- Identify what aspects of the current PSI license is incompatibe with
respect to WIkipeida, convince the Government to change (or adopt it as a secondary license) it and implement it widely (including on Merrion Street).
- Lobby directly for Merrion Street to use a Wikipedia-compatible license
(port or not) for some or all of it's material.
- Develop a relationship with Merrion Street and other agencies so that we
can ask them for specific material (or sets of material), which they will release to us under a compatible license at their discretion.
No matter the approach, I think a copyright lawyer would be of great assistance to us.
Best, Oliver
On 14 Jul 2011, at 23:28, Gabriel Beecham wrote:
I'm willing to lend a hand in this regard.
-Gabriel
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Hey guys,
Was away on holidays for a few weeks. Did anything more happen around this? Would be willing to put effort into campaigning (letter writing, phone calling, shoe leather, miscellaneous money, etc.) into this.
I think it would be a very important achievement and not entirely unrealistic.
Oliver
On 29 Jun 2011, at 00:18, Aisling Walsh wrote:
Hi Folks,
I have a contact who works in the Dept of Taoiseach. She said to direct any queries about MerrionStreet.ie to editor@merrionstreet.ie
If there's anything else I can do please let me know,
Thanks,
Aisling
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Legwork? I'd be prepared to draft an email/do the research.
Colm
From: abartov@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:06:38 -0700
To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] MerrionStreet.ie
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish
governments,
release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it
was
appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC
licence
(suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be
repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone willing to do the legwork?
So... no?
Asaf-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation
_______________________________________________ WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
And do any of you have a local copyright lawyer in your networks who might be interested in helping pro bono? If not, do we know of a prominent copyright lawyer who could be engaged for this?
Cheers,
Asaf
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Thanks, Gabriel. Aisling and Colm, are you still interested in pursuing this? Jodi, are you interested too? I'm going to contact some people I know offline who may be interested in lending a hand also. Anybody else willing to lend a hand? Or any ideas out there for how we might approach this?
We might also contact the folks at Creative Commons Ireland ( http://www.ucc.ie/law/irishlaw/creativecommons/). They may have a sounder understanding of the legal issues involved and may be able to advise us. I see they have already ported a draft the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA to Irish law:
We might need a full port of a Wikipedia compatible CC license to Irish law before we can definitively ask the government to switch over to one. Is there anyone from Creative Commons Ireland already on this list?
I have done a little reading of the Merrion Street site and dug a little into the issues involved. From that, I see there is a relevant European Directive that requires member states to "ensure that practical arrangements are put in place that facilitate the search for documents available for re-use":
http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/psi/docs/pdfs/directive/psi_d...
This has been transposed into Irish law under the Statutory Instrument (SI) European Communities (Re-Use of Public Sector Information) Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005). There appears to have been a follow up Statutory Instrument in 2008:
- 2005: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/si/0279.html
- 2008: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/si/0103.html
(I haven't read these yet.)
All material on the Merrion Street website (beyond permission for linking, downloading and printing) "is subject to the terms of the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005)." Third-party material is excluded from that permission (what proportion of the site is third-party, I don't know).
Additionally, the copyright page says, "You may re-use the information on this website free of charge in any format." What the implications of that is, I don't know.
As part of the 2005 Statutory Instrument, it seems that a standard license (the "PSI license") was prepared for public material:
I don't know if this license is Wikipedia compatible. If it is, we may be onto a winner and can just lobby for this license to be used more widely. If it is not, then we may have a fight on our hands.
Given that Merrion Street recently used a CC-BY-NC-ND license, the PSI license may not be widely used. Also, as Colm noted, they have recently changed to "all rights reserved". I don't know what this means with respect to the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations (or if it even applies) or how widely used the PSI license is within the public service.
One tack we might take is to see what aspects of the current PSI license would need to change before it would be compatible with Wikipedia. If there are any copyright lawyers out there — or if we can convince the CC people to help us here — then we could go to the government with something solid. (This is assuming the current license is incompatible.)
Finally, under the appropriate regulations, it would seem that the Minister for Finance (don't ask me why) is the relevant minister for the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulation. A website dealing with information on the Re-use of Public Sector Information is here:
So, in summary, from my quick look four approaches pop out at me:
- Port a Wikipedia-compaitble CC licence to Irish law and convince the
Merrion Street (or the Government) to use that.
- Identify what aspects of the current PSI license is incompatibe with
respect to WIkipeida, convince the Government to change (or adopt it as a secondary license) it and implement it widely (including on Merrion Street).
- Lobby directly for Merrion Street to use a Wikipedia-compatible license
(port or not) for some or all of it's material.
- Develop a relationship with Merrion Street and other agencies so that we
can ask them for specific material (or sets of material), which they will release to us under a compatible license at their discretion.
No matter the approach, I think a copyright lawyer would be of great assistance to us.
Best, Oliver
On 14 Jul 2011, at 23:28, Gabriel Beecham wrote:
I'm willing to lend a hand in this regard.
-Gabriel
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Hey guys,
Was away on holidays for a few weeks. Did anything more happen around this? Would be willing to put effort into campaigning (letter writing, phone calling, shoe leather, miscellaneous money, etc.) into this.
I think it would be a very important achievement and not entirely unrealistic.
Oliver
On 29 Jun 2011, at 00:18, Aisling Walsh wrote:
Hi Folks,
I have a contact who works in the Dept of Taoiseach. She said to direct any queries about MerrionStreet.ie to editor@merrionstreet.ie
If there's anything else I can do please let me know,
Thanks,
Aisling
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Legwork? I'd be prepared to draft an email/do the research.
Colm
From: abartov@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:06:38 -0700
To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] MerrionStreet.ie
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish
governments,
release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it
was
appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC
licence
(suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be
repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone willing to do the legwork?
So... no?
Asaf-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation
_______________________________________________ WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
Actually, I can think of one individual in intellectual property law whom it would be worth approaching. If you can give me an idea of what exactly his services might be required for, I will contact him regarding this.
Gabriel
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:05 AM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
And do any of you have a local copyright lawyer in your networks who might be interested in helping pro bono? If not, do we know of a prominent copyright lawyer who could be engaged for this?
Cheers,
Asaf
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Thanks, Gabriel. Aisling and Colm, are you still interested in pursuing this? Jodi, are you interested too? I'm going to contact some people I know offline who may be interested in lending a hand also. Anybody else willing to lend a hand? Or any ideas out there for how we might approach this?
We might also contact the folks at Creative Commons Ireland ( http://www.ucc.ie/law/irishlaw/creativecommons/). They may have a sounder understanding of the legal issues involved and may be able to advise us. I see they have already ported a draft the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA to Irish law:
We might need a full port of a Wikipedia compatible CC license to Irish law before we can definitively ask the government to switch over to one. Is there anyone from Creative Commons Ireland already on this list?
I have done a little reading of the Merrion Street site and dug a little into the issues involved. From that, I see there is a relevant European Directive that requires member states to "ensure that practical arrangements are put in place that facilitate the search for documents available for re-use":
http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/psi/docs/pdfs/directive/psi_d...
This has been transposed into Irish law under the Statutory Instrument (SI) European Communities (Re-Use of Public Sector Information) Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005). There appears to have been a follow up Statutory Instrument in 2008:
- 2005: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/si/0279.html
- 2008: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/si/0103.html
(I haven't read these yet.)
All material on the Merrion Street website (beyond permission for linking, downloading and printing) "is subject to the terms of the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005)." Third-party material is excluded from that permission (what proportion of the site is third-party, I don't know).
Additionally, the copyright page says, "You may re-use the information on this website free of charge in any format." What the implications of that is, I don't know.
As part of the 2005 Statutory Instrument, it seems that a standard license (the "PSI license") was prepared for public material:
I don't know if this license is Wikipedia compatible. If it is, we may be onto a winner and can just lobby for this license to be used more widely. If it is not, then we may have a fight on our hands.
Given that Merrion Street recently used a CC-BY-NC-ND license, the PSI license may not be widely used. Also, as Colm noted, they have recently changed to "all rights reserved". I don't know what this means with respect to the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations (or if it even applies) or how widely used the PSI license is within the public service.
One tack we might take is to see what aspects of the current PSI license would need to change before it would be compatible with Wikipedia. If there are any copyright lawyers out there — or if we can convince the CC people to help us here — then we could go to the government with something solid. (This is assuming the current license is incompatible.)
Finally, under the appropriate regulations, it would seem that the Minister for Finance (don't ask me why) is the relevant minister for the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulation. A website dealing with information on the Re-use of Public Sector Information is here:
So, in summary, from my quick look four approaches pop out at me:
- Port a Wikipedia-compaitble CC licence to Irish law and convince the
Merrion Street (or the Government) to use that.
- Identify what aspects of the current PSI license is incompatibe with
respect to WIkipeida, convince the Government to change (or adopt it as a secondary license) it and implement it widely (including on Merrion Street).
- Lobby directly for Merrion Street to use a Wikipedia-compatible license
(port or not) for some or all of it's material.
- Develop a relationship with Merrion Street and other agencies so that
we can ask them for specific material (or sets of material), which they will release to us under a compatible license at their discretion.
No matter the approach, I think a copyright lawyer would be of great assistance to us.
Best, Oliver
On 14 Jul 2011, at 23:28, Gabriel Beecham wrote:
I'm willing to lend a hand in this regard.
-Gabriel
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Hey guys,
Was away on holidays for a few weeks. Did anything more happen around this? Would be willing to put effort into campaigning (letter writing, phone calling, shoe leather, miscellaneous money, etc.) into this.
I think it would be a very important achievement and not entirely unrealistic.
Oliver
On 29 Jun 2011, at 00:18, Aisling Walsh wrote:
Hi Folks,
I have a contact who works in the Dept of Taoiseach. She said to direct any queries about MerrionStreet.ie to editor@merrionstreet.ie
If there's anything else I can do please let me know,
Thanks,
Aisling
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Legwork? I'd be prepared to draft an email/do the research.
Colm
From: abartov@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:06:38 -0700
To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] MerrionStreet.ie
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.comwrote:
On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish
governments,
release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it
was
appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC
licence
(suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be
repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone willing to do the legwork?
So... no?
Asaf-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation
_______________________________________________ WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
Thanks for getting this going again, Asaf.
A contact of mine was able to suggest an individual (a lawyer) in Creative Commons Ireland, who I contacted this morning. Apologies for dropping the ball on this, I had this contact on the 16th but neglected to pursue it. That email is attached. Gabriel, maybe that email will useful for you in contacting the individual you know.
I don't know about others, but I find it quite difficult to get the ball rolling at the early stages of something like this through email alone. Particularly when we are all strangers to each other.
Gabriel, Aisling and Colm and Jodi - and anyone else who may be interested - would you be willing to hold an informal Skype call some evening next week? We could introduce ourselves and toss out some ideas for how we could approach this. Nothing too big or intimidating :-)
Best, Oliver
On 29 July 2011 06:26, Gabriel Beecham gabriel.beecham@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, I can think of one individual in intellectual property law whom it would be worth approaching. If you can give me an idea of what exactly his services might be required for, I will contact him regarding this.
Gabriel
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:05 AM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.orgwrote:
And do any of you have a local copyright lawyer in your networks who might be interested in helping pro bono? If not, do we know of a prominent copyright lawyer who could be engaged for this?
Cheers,
Asaf
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Thanks, Gabriel. Aisling and Colm, are you still interested in pursuing this? Jodi, are you interested too? I'm going to contact some people I know offline who may be interested in lending a hand also. Anybody else willing to lend a hand? Or any ideas out there for how we might approach this?
We might also contact the folks at Creative Commons Ireland ( http://www.ucc.ie/law/irishlaw/creativecommons/). They may have a sounder understanding of the legal issues involved and may be able to advise us. I see they have already ported a draft the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA to Irish law:
We might need a full port of a Wikipedia compatible CC license to Irish law before we can definitively ask the government to switch over to one. Is there anyone from Creative Commons Ireland already on this list?
I have done a little reading of the Merrion Street site and dug a little into the issues involved. From that, I see there is a relevant European Directive that requires member states to "ensure that practical arrangements are put in place that facilitate the search for documents available for re-use":
http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/psi/docs/pdfs/directive/psi_d...
This has been transposed into Irish law under the Statutory Instrument (SI) European Communities (Re-Use of Public Sector Information) Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005). There appears to have been a follow up Statutory Instrument in 2008:
- 2005: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/si/0279.html
- 2008: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/si/0103.html
(I haven't read these yet.)
All material on the Merrion Street website (beyond permission for linking, downloading and printing) "is subject to the terms of the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005)." Third-party material is excluded from that permission (what proportion of the site is third-party, I don't know).
Additionally, the copyright page says, "You may re-use the information on this website free of charge in any format." What the implications of that is, I don't know.
As part of the 2005 Statutory Instrument, it seems that a standard license (the "PSI license") was prepared for public material:
I don't know if this license is Wikipedia compatible. If it is, we may be onto a winner and can just lobby for this license to be used more widely. If it is not, then we may have a fight on our hands.
Given that Merrion Street recently used a CC-BY-NC-ND license, the PSI license may not be widely used. Also, as Colm noted, they have recently changed to "all rights reserved". I don't know what this means with respect to the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations (or if it even applies) or how widely used the PSI license is within the public service.
One tack we might take is to see what aspects of the current PSI license would need to change before it would be compatible with Wikipedia. If there are any copyright lawyers out there — or if we can convince the CC people to help us here — then we could go to the government with something solid. (This is assuming the current license is incompatible.)
Finally, under the appropriate regulations, it would seem that the Minister for Finance (don't ask me why) is the relevant minister for the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulation. A website dealing with information on the Re-use of Public Sector Information is here:
So, in summary, from my quick look four approaches pop out at me:
- Port a Wikipedia-compaitble CC licence to Irish law and convince the
Merrion Street (or the Government) to use that.
- Identify what aspects of the current PSI license is incompatibe with
respect to WIkipeida, convince the Government to change (or adopt it as a secondary license) it and implement it widely (including on Merrion Street).
- Lobby directly for Merrion Street to use a Wikipedia-compatible
license (port or not) for some or all of it's material.
- Develop a relationship with Merrion Street and other agencies so that
we can ask them for specific material (or sets of material), which they will release to us under a compatible license at their discretion.
No matter the approach, I think a copyright lawyer would be of great assistance to us.
Best, Oliver
On 14 Jul 2011, at 23:28, Gabriel Beecham wrote:
I'm willing to lend a hand in this regard.
-Gabriel
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Hey guys,
Was away on holidays for a few weeks. Did anything more happen around this? Would be willing to put effort into campaigning (letter writing, phone calling, shoe leather, miscellaneous money, etc.) into this.
I think it would be a very important achievement and not entirely unrealistic.
Oliver
On 29 Jun 2011, at 00:18, Aisling Walsh wrote:
Hi Folks,
I have a contact who works in the Dept of Taoiseach. She said to direct any queries about MerrionStreet.ie to editor@merrionstreet.ie
If there's anything else I can do please let me know,
Thanks,
Aisling
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Legwork? I'd be prepared to draft an email/do the research.
Colm
From: abartov@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:06:38 -0700
To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] MerrionStreet.ie
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.comwrote:
On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish
governments,
release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt
it was
appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC
licence
(suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be
repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone willing to do the legwork?
So... no?
Asaf-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation
_______________________________________________ WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
Sorry, keep me posted but I don't have time for a call. -J
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Thanks for getting this going again, Asaf.
A contact of mine was able to suggest an individual (a lawyer) in Creative Commons Ireland, who I contacted this morning. Apologies for dropping the ball on this, I had this contact on the 16th but neglected to pursue it. That email is attached. Gabriel, maybe that email will useful for you in contacting the individual you know.
I don't know about others, but I find it quite difficult to get the ball rolling at the early stages of something like this through email alone. Particularly when we are all strangers to each other.
Gabriel, Aisling and Colm and Jodi - and anyone else who may be interested
- would you be willing to hold an informal Skype call some evening next
week? We could introduce ourselves and toss out some ideas for how we could approach this. Nothing too big or intimidating :-)
Best, Oliver
On 29 July 2011 06:26, Gabriel Beecham gabriel.beecham@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, I can think of one individual in intellectual property law whom it would be worth approaching. If you can give me an idea of what exactly his services might be required for, I will contact him regarding this.
Gabriel
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:05 AM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.orgwrote:
And do any of you have a local copyright lawyer in your networks who might be interested in helping pro bono? If not, do we know of a prominent copyright lawyer who could be engaged for this?
Cheers,
Asaf
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Thanks, Gabriel. Aisling and Colm, are you still interested in pursuing this? Jodi, are you interested too? I'm going to contact some people I know offline who may be interested in lending a hand also. Anybody else willing to lend a hand? Or any ideas out there for how we might approach this?
We might also contact the folks at Creative Commons Ireland ( http://www.ucc.ie/law/irishlaw/creativecommons/). They may have a sounder understanding of the legal issues involved and may be able to advise us. I see they have already ported a draft the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA to Irish law:
We might need a full port of a Wikipedia compatible CC license to Irish law before we can definitively ask the government to switch over to one. Is there anyone from Creative Commons Ireland already on this list?
I have done a little reading of the Merrion Street site and dug a little into the issues involved. From that, I see there is a relevant European Directive that requires member states to "ensure that practical arrangements are put in place that facilitate the search for documents available for re-use":
http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/psi/docs/pdfs/directive/psi_d...
This has been transposed into Irish law under the Statutory Instrument (SI) European Communities (Re-Use of Public Sector Information) Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005). There appears to have been a follow up Statutory Instrument in 2008:
- 2005: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/si/0279.html
- 2008: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/si/0103.html
(I haven't read these yet.)
All material on the Merrion Street website (beyond permission for linking, downloading and printing) "is subject to the terms of the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005)." Third-party material is excluded from that permission (what proportion of the site is third-party, I don't know).
Additionally, the copyright page says, "You may re-use the information on this website free of charge in any format." What the implications of that is, I don't know.
As part of the 2005 Statutory Instrument, it seems that a standard license (the "PSI license") was prepared for public material:
I don't know if this license is Wikipedia compatible. If it is, we may be onto a winner and can just lobby for this license to be used more widely. If it is not, then we may have a fight on our hands.
Given that Merrion Street recently used a CC-BY-NC-ND license, the PSI license may not be widely used. Also, as Colm noted, they have recently changed to "all rights reserved". I don't know what this means with respect to the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations (or if it even applies) or how widely used the PSI license is within the public service.
One tack we might take is to see what aspects of the current PSI license would need to change before it would be compatible with Wikipedia. If there are any copyright lawyers out there — or if we can convince the CC people to help us here — then we could go to the government with something solid. (This is assuming the current license is incompatible.)
Finally, under the appropriate regulations, it would seem that the Minister for Finance (don't ask me why) is the relevant minister for the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulation. A website dealing with information on the Re-use of Public Sector Information is here:
So, in summary, from my quick look four approaches pop out at me:
- Port a Wikipedia-compaitble CC licence to Irish law and convince the
Merrion Street (or the Government) to use that.
- Identify what aspects of the current PSI license is incompatibe with
respect to WIkipeida, convince the Government to change (or adopt it as a secondary license) it and implement it widely (including on Merrion Street).
- Lobby directly for Merrion Street to use a Wikipedia-compatible
license (port or not) for some or all of it's material.
- Develop a relationship with Merrion Street and other agencies so that
we can ask them for specific material (or sets of material), which they will release to us under a compatible license at their discretion.
No matter the approach, I think a copyright lawyer would be of great assistance to us.
Best, Oliver
On 14 Jul 2011, at 23:28, Gabriel Beecham wrote:
I'm willing to lend a hand in this regard.
-Gabriel
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Hey guys,
Was away on holidays for a few weeks. Did anything more happen around this? Would be willing to put effort into campaigning (letter writing, phone calling, shoe leather, miscellaneous money, etc.) into this.
I think it would be a very important achievement and not entirely unrealistic.
Oliver
On 29 Jun 2011, at 00:18, Aisling Walsh wrote:
Hi Folks,
I have a contact who works in the Dept of Taoiseach. She said to direct any queries about MerrionStreet.ie to editor@merrionstreet.ie
If there's anything else I can do please let me know,
Thanks,
Aisling
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Colm King cargoking@live.comwrote:
Legwork? I'd be prepared to draft an email/do the research.
Colm
From: abartov@wikimedia.org Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:06:38 -0700
To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] MerrionStreet.ie
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.comwrote:
On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
> Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish governments, > release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it was > appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC licence > (suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be
repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone?
I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone willing to do the legwork?
So... no?
Asaf-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation
_______________________________________________ WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
WikimediaIE mailing list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie
July 2011
Hi,
I have been following this discussion with interest.
There is a specific Wikipedia *copyright clean up* team for those who are interested in copyright vio and gaining experience of working on copyright issues
Also it might be best to start by contacting the Irish political parties as a change to creative commons would be a matter of policy re: Copyright. We could start perhaps by emailing one of the smaller parties eg. the Green Party or the Labour Party who might be helpful.
Yours
Kieran Moore
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Jodi Schneider jschneider@pobox.comwrote:
Sorry, keep me posted but I don't have time for a call. -J
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Thanks for getting this going again, Asaf.
A contact of mine was able to suggest an individual (a lawyer) in Creative Commons Ireland, who I contacted this morning. Apologies for dropping the ball on this, I had this contact on the 16th but neglected to pursue it. That email is attached. Gabriel, maybe that email will useful for you in contacting the individual you know.
I don't know about others, but I find it quite difficult to get the ball rolling at the early stages of something like this through email alone. Particularly when we are all strangers to each other.
Gabriel, Aisling and Colm and Jodi - and anyone else who may be interested
- would you be willing to hold an informal Skype call some evening next
week? We could introduce ourselves and toss out some ideas for how we could approach this. Nothing too big or intimidating :-)
Best, Oliver
On 29 July 2011 06:26, Gabriel Beecham gabriel.beecham@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, I can think of one individual in intellectual property law whom it would be worth approaching. If you can give me an idea of what exactly his services might be required for, I will contact him regarding this.
Gabriel
On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:05 AM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.orgwrote:
And do any of you have a local copyright lawyer in your networks who might be interested in helping pro bono? If not, do we know of a prominent copyright lawyer who could be engaged for this?
Cheers,
Asaf
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Oliver Moran oliver.moran@gmail.comwrote:
Thanks, Gabriel. Aisling and Colm, are you still interested in pursuing this? Jodi, are you interested too? I'm going to contact some people I know offline who may be interested in lending a hand also. Anybody else willing to lend a hand? Or any ideas out there for how we might approach this?
We might also contact the folks at Creative Commons Ireland ( http://www.ucc.ie/law/irishlaw/creativecommons/). They may have a sounder understanding of the legal issues involved and may be able to advise us. I see they have already ported a draft the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA to Irish law:
We might need a full port of a Wikipedia compatible CC license to Irish law before we can definitively ask the government to switch over to one. Is there anyone from Creative Commons Ireland already on this list?
I have done a little reading of the Merrion Street site and dug a little into the issues involved. From that, I see there is a relevant European Directive that requires member states to "ensure that practical arrangements are put in place that facilitate the search for documents available for re-use":
http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/psi/docs/pdfs/directive/psi_d...
This has been transposed into Irish law under the Statutory Instrument (SI) European Communities (Re-Use of Public Sector Information) Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005). There appears to have been a follow up Statutory Instrument in 2008:
- 2005: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/si/0279.html
- 2008: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/si/0103.html
(I haven't read these yet.)
All material on the Merrion Street website (beyond permission for linking, downloading and printing) "is subject to the terms of the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations 2005 (SI 279 of 2005)." Third-party material is excluded from that permission (what proportion of the site is third-party, I don't know).
Additionally, the copyright page says, "You may re-use the information on this website free of charge in any format." What the implications of that is, I don't know.
As part of the 2005 Statutory Instrument, it seems that a standard license (the "PSI license") was prepared for public material:
I don't know if this license is Wikipedia compatible. If it is, we may be onto a winner and can just lobby for this license to be used more widely. If it is not, then we may have a fight on our hands.
Given that Merrion Street recently used a CC-BY-NC-ND license, the PSI license may not be widely used. Also, as Colm noted, they have recently changed to "all rights reserved". I don't know what this means with respect to the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations (or if it even applies) or how widely used the PSI license is within the public service.
One tack we might take is to see what aspects of the current PSI license would need to change before it would be compatible with Wikipedia. If there are any copyright lawyers out there — or if we can convince the CC people to help us here — then we could go to the government with something solid. (This is assuming the current license is incompatible.)
Finally, under the appropriate regulations, it would seem that the Minister for Finance (don't ask me why) is the relevant minister for the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulation. A website dealing with information on the Re-use of Public Sector Information is here:
So, in summary, from my quick look four approaches pop out at me:
- Port a Wikipedia-compaitble CC licence to Irish law and convince the
Merrion Street (or the Government) to use that.
- Identify what aspects of the current PSI license is incompatibe with
respect to WIkipeida, convince the Government to change (or adopt it as a secondary license) it and implement it widely (including on Merrion Street).
- Lobby directly for Merrion Street to use a Wikipedia-compatible
license (port or not) for some or all of it's material.
- Develop a relationship with Merrion Street and other agencies so
that we can ask them for specific material (or sets of material), which they will release to us under a compatible license at their discretion.
No matter the approach, I think a copyright lawyer would be of great assistance to us.
Best, Oliver
On 14 Jul 2011, at 23:28, Gabriel Beecham wrote:
I'm willing to lend a hand in this regard.
-Gabriel
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Oliver Moran <oliver.moran@gmail.com
wrote:
Hey guys,
Was away on holidays for a few weeks. Did anything more happen around this? Would be willing to put effort into campaigning (letter writing, phone calling, shoe leather, miscellaneous money, etc.) into this.
I think it would be a very important achievement and not entirely unrealistic.
Oliver
On 29 Jun 2011, at 00:18, Aisling Walsh wrote:
Hi Folks,
I have a contact who works in the Dept of Taoiseach. She said to direct any queries about MerrionStreet.ie to editor@merrionstreet.ie
If there's anything else I can do please let me know,
Thanks,
Aisling
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Colm King cargoking@live.comwrote:
> > Legwork? I'd be prepared to draft an email/do the research. > > Colm > ------------------------------ > From: abartov@wikimedia.org > Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:06:38 -0700 > > To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] MerrionStreet.ie > > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.orgwrote: > > On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.comwrote: > > On 10 June 2011 13:26, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote: > > > Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish > governments, > > release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt > it was > > appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC > licence > > (suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain. > > > There's been some work at data.gov.uk to get UK Crown Copyright made > into something two-way compatible with CC-by - that is, they retain > copyright, and change the licence. Perhaps that UK work could be > > repurposed for IE. I'm vague on the fine details ... anyone? > > > I think this would be an excellent achievement for WMIE. Is anyone > willing to do the legwork? > > > So... no? > > Asaf > -- > Asaf Bartov > Wikimedia Foundation > > > _______________________________________________ WikimediaIE mailing > list WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie > > _______________________________________________ > WikimediaIE mailing list > WikimediaIE@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaie > > _______________________________________________
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If anyone has contacts at http://merrionstreet.ie/ , this copyright issue might deserve followup. -Jodi
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Colm King cargoking@live.com Date: Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:26 PM Subject: [Wikimedia IE] MerrionStreet.ie To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org
Hi again,
I know you probably haven't heard much from me recently. I've been away from Wikipedia for a while due to commitments, but still have a keen interest.
I don't know if you've ever come across the website MerrionSteet.ie . It is the "Irish Government News Service". It has a collection of all of the press releases from government departments, as well as images.
Previously, the images were under a Creative Commons licence, but recently changed them to full Copyright. The old licence was not acceptable for Wikipedia.
Considering that other governments, such as the US and Polish governments, release their images for free, I was wondering if anybody else felt it was appropriate to lobby the website to release their images under a CC licence (suitable for Wiki) or into the public domain.
Regards, Colm King (cargoking)
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