Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits: * tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials * tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event * scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars, professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event. * more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
For Wikimania 2012, I remember that we wanted to make sure the largest number of people could attend. DC was an expensive enough city that we felt if registration prices were too high, it may discourage some of the people who didn't get scholarships from attending.
That being said, there's no reason why future Wikimanias shouldn't offer various pricing options, like higher "individual sponsorship" registration for those who want to sponsor on a smaller level, student registration, etc.
Sincerely, Nicholas Michael Bashour
Sent from my iPhone
Am 22.03.2014 um 19:21 schrieb Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
My impression was that the prices took into account that (a) most members of the Wikimedia community are volunteers (b) most attendees have paid many hundreds, if not thousands of US$ in airfares/accommodation costs to attend, on top of the ticket price. Volunteers also have to use up their own annual leave (or forgo wages) if their Wikimedia activities are not on behalf of their employer.
You could get away with having separate rates. The other conference I have experience with, Linux.conf.au, has rates which differ by almost an order of magnitude: Professional $899, Hobbyist $399, Student $99. (These prices are Australian dollars, which is approx USD +/- 10%) (IMHO the Hobbyist rate here is still a bit high for a volunteer.) This conference is, however, a major source of income for Linux Australia, whereas Wikimania is indirectly supported by donations to WMF.
Regards,
Charles
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Bashour < nicholasbashour@gmail.com> wrote:
For Wikimania 2012, I remember that we wanted to make sure the largest number of people could attend. DC was an expensive enough city that we felt if registration prices were too high, it may discourage some of the people who didn't get scholarships from attending.
That being said, there's no reason why future Wikimanias shouldn't offer various pricing options, like higher "individual sponsorship" registration for those who want to sponsor on a smaller level, student registration, etc.
Sincerely, Nicholas Michael Bashour
Sent from my iPhone
Am 22.03.2014 um 19:21 schrieb Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania indeed has a tradition of setting artificially low entry prices for the reasons Nicholas described earlier in this thread. Of course, there's nothing to stop Wikimania 2014 from raising ticket prices. I should remind though that until 2013 we basically have a hierarchy of 4 ticket prices:
1. Non-Wikimedian price: supposedly the full cost (but is still effectively slightly subsidised) 2. Wikimedian price: substantially subsidised entry and food, for those who've paid a lot to travel to the venue from the other side of the world 3. Partial scholarship: for those who can almost / just about afford to attend Wikimania on their own budget, but would use up their savings unless their air travel was subsidised. The partial scholarship encourages them to go to *more* Wikimanias. 4. Full scholarship (for those who simply can't afford Wikimania)
In 2014, the partial scholarship is removed, so I would hesitate to raise the Wikimedian ticket prices, lest we disincentivise "medium-income" Wikimedians (particularly students) from attending. However, by all means consider raising the non-Wikimedian price, or even have a "donor price" (full cost + £100, say?) with a shiny badge to let generous attendees pay more!
Deryck
Deryck On 23 Mar 2014 08:07, "Charles Gregory" wmau.lists@chuq.net wrote:
My impression was that the prices took into account that (a) most members of the Wikimedia community are volunteers (b) most attendees have paid many hundreds, if not thousands of US$ in airfares/accommodation costs to attend, on top of the ticket price. Volunteers also have to use up their own annual leave (or forgo wages) if their Wikimedia activities are not on behalf of their employer.
You could get away with having separate rates. The other conference I have experience with, Linux.conf.au, has rates which differ by almost an order of magnitude: Professional $899, Hobbyist $399, Student $99. (These prices are Australian dollars, which is approx USD +/- 10%) (IMHO the Hobbyist rate here is still a bit high for a volunteer.) This conference is, however, a major source of income for Linux Australia, whereas Wikimania is indirectly supported by donations to WMF.
Regards,
Charles
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Bashour < nicholasbashour@gmail.com> wrote:
For Wikimania 2012, I remember that we wanted to make sure the largest number of people could attend. DC was an expensive enough city that we felt if registration prices were too high, it may discourage some of the people who didn't get scholarships from attending.
That being said, there's no reason why future Wikimanias shouldn't offer various pricing options, like higher "individual sponsorship" registration for those who want to sponsor on a smaller level, student registration, etc.
Sincerely, Nicholas Michael Bashour
Sent from my iPhone
Am 22.03.2014 um 19:21 schrieb Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Two general thoughts that I think are important. Firstly, most attendees will pay the conference fee themselves. You cannot compare with the general conference where those (high) fees are paid by the university or company of the attendee.
Secondly, selection of Wikimania 2015 location is a voting process with the public, as such bidders will try to keep to conference fees as low as possible.
I personally support Chan's "four group" hierarchy: Non-Wikimedian price, Wikimedian price, Partial scholarship, Full scholarship, and his hesitance to raise general prices.
Maarten Wikimania Cape Townhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015_bids/Cape_Town
2014-03-23 2:54 GMT+01:00 Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com:
Wikimania indeed has a tradition of setting artificially low entry prices for the reasons Nicholas described earlier in this thread. Of course, there's nothing to stop Wikimania 2014 from raising ticket prices. I should remind though that until 2013 we basically have a hierarchy of 4 ticket prices:
- Non-Wikimedian price: supposedly the full cost (but is still
effectively slightly subsidised) 2. Wikimedian price: substantially subsidised entry and food, for those who've paid a lot to travel to the venue from the other side of the world 3. Partial scholarship: for those who can almost / just about afford to attend Wikimania on their own budget, but would use up their savings unless their air travel was subsidised. The partial scholarship encourages them to go to *more* Wikimanias. 4. Full scholarship (for those who simply can't afford Wikimania)
In 2014, the partial scholarship is removed, so I would hesitate to raise the Wikimedian ticket prices, lest we disincentivise "medium-income" Wikimedians (particularly students) from attending. However, by all means consider raising the non-Wikimedian price, or even have a "donor price" (full cost + £100, say?) with a shiny badge to let generous attendees pay more!
Deryck
Deryck On 23 Mar 2014 08:07, "Charles Gregory" wmau.lists@chuq.net wrote:
My impression was that the prices took into account that (a) most members of the Wikimedia community are volunteers (b) most attendees have paid many hundreds, if not thousands of US$ in airfares/accommodation costs to attend, on top of the ticket price. Volunteers also have to use up their own annual leave (or forgo wages) if their Wikimedia activities are not on behalf of their employer.
You could get away with having separate rates. The other conference I have experience with, Linux.conf.au, has rates which differ by almost an order of magnitude: Professional $899, Hobbyist $399, Student $99. (These prices are Australian dollars, which is approx USD +/- 10%) (IMHO the Hobbyist rate here is still a bit high for a volunteer.) This conference is, however, a major source of income for Linux Australia, whereas Wikimania is indirectly supported by donations to WMF.
Regards,
Charles
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Bashour < nicholasbashour@gmail.com> wrote:
For Wikimania 2012, I remember that we wanted to make sure the largest number of people could attend. DC was an expensive enough city that we felt if registration prices were too high, it may discourage some of the people who didn't get scholarships from attending.
That being said, there's no reason why future Wikimanias shouldn't offer various pricing options, like higher "individual sponsorship" registration for those who want to sponsor on a smaller level, student registration, etc.
Sincerely, Nicholas Michael Bashour
Sent from my iPhone
Am 22.03.2014 um 19:21 schrieb Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
As Wikimedia movement, we have the luxury to approach this question backwards. Instead of thinking about how we will pay for the event (we have many sponsorship opportunities and even a good amount of donations), we can look at who we would want to attend the event. We could design our pricing system such to accommodate that.
So, maybe we should first answer that question - what would our ideal attendance look like?
Best, Lodewijk
2014-03-23 13:48 GMT+01:00 maarten deneckere < maartendeneckere+wikimania@gmail.com>:
Two general thoughts that I think are important. Firstly, most attendees will pay the conference fee themselves. You cannot compare with the general conference where those (high) fees are paid by the university or company of the attendee.
Secondly, selection of Wikimania 2015 location is a voting process with the public, as such bidders will try to keep to conference fees as low as possible.
I personally support Chan's "four group" hierarchy: Non-Wikimedian price, Wikimedian price, Partial scholarship, Full scholarship, and his hesitance to raise general prices.
Maarten Wikimania Cape Townhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015_bids/Cape_Town
2014-03-23 2:54 GMT+01:00 Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com:
Wikimania indeed has a tradition of setting artificially low entry prices
for the reasons Nicholas described earlier in this thread. Of course, there's nothing to stop Wikimania 2014 from raising ticket prices. I should remind though that until 2013 we basically have a hierarchy of 4 ticket prices:
- Non-Wikimedian price: supposedly the full cost (but is still
effectively slightly subsidised) 2. Wikimedian price: substantially subsidised entry and food, for those who've paid a lot to travel to the venue from the other side of the world 3. Partial scholarship: for those who can almost / just about afford to attend Wikimania on their own budget, but would use up their savings unless their air travel was subsidised. The partial scholarship encourages them to go to *more* Wikimanias. 4. Full scholarship (for those who simply can't afford Wikimania)
In 2014, the partial scholarship is removed, so I would hesitate to raise the Wikimedian ticket prices, lest we disincentivise "medium-income" Wikimedians (particularly students) from attending. However, by all means consider raising the non-Wikimedian price, or even have a "donor price" (full cost + £100, say?) with a shiny badge to let generous attendees pay more!
Deryck
Deryck On 23 Mar 2014 08:07, "Charles Gregory" wmau.lists@chuq.net wrote:
My impression was that the prices took into account that (a) most members of the Wikimedia community are volunteers (b) most attendees have paid many hundreds, if not thousands of US$ in airfares/accommodation costs to attend, on top of the ticket price. Volunteers also have to use up their own annual leave (or forgo wages) if their Wikimedia activities are not on behalf of their employer.
You could get away with having separate rates. The other conference I have experience with, Linux.conf.au, has rates which differ by almost an order of magnitude: Professional $899, Hobbyist $399, Student $99. (These prices are Australian dollars, which is approx USD +/- 10%) (IMHO the Hobbyist rate here is still a bit high for a volunteer.) This conference is, however, a major source of income for Linux Australia, whereas Wikimania is indirectly supported by donations to WMF.
Regards,
Charles
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Bashour < nicholasbashour@gmail.com> wrote:
For Wikimania 2012, I remember that we wanted to make sure the largest number of people could attend. DC was an expensive enough city that we felt if registration prices were too high, it may discourage some of the people who didn't get scholarships from attending.
That being said, there's no reason why future Wikimanias shouldn't offer various pricing options, like higher "individual sponsorship" registration for those who want to sponsor on a smaller level, student registration, etc.
Sincerely, Nicholas Michael Bashour
Sent from my iPhone
Am 22.03.2014 um 19:21 schrieb Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
A word from the trenches;
I am very keen to keep Wikimania prices low. It's not quite decided yet, but I think our ticket prices will be less than $100, which compared to any conference of comparable size is absurdly low; it would be worth buying a ticket for the catering alone. It's not unusual for large conferences to cost fifty times this.
However, for the past six months a significant amount of the (volunteer) Wikimania team's time has been dedicated to fundraising, so there is a cost to this.
*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org * facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia * twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia * 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 23 March 2014 22:03, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
As Wikimedia movement, we have the luxury to approach this question backwards. Instead of thinking about how we will pay for the event (we have many sponsorship opportunities and even a good amount of donations), we can look at who we would want to attend the event. We could design our pricing system such to accommodate that.
So, maybe we should first answer that question - what would our ideal attendance look like?
Best, Lodewijk
2014-03-23 13:48 GMT+01:00 maarten deneckere < maartendeneckere+wikimania@gmail.com>:
Two general thoughts that I think are important. Firstly, most attendees will pay the conference fee themselves. You cannot compare with the general conference where those (high) fees are paid by the university or company of the attendee.
Secondly, selection of Wikimania 2015 location is a voting process with the public, as such bidders will try to keep to conference fees as low as possible.
I personally support Chan's "four group" hierarchy: Non-Wikimedian price, Wikimedian price, Partial scholarship, Full scholarship, and his hesitance to raise general prices.
Maarten Wikimania Cape Townhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015_bids/Cape_Town
2014-03-23 2:54 GMT+01:00 Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com:
Wikimania indeed has a tradition of setting artificially low entry prices
for the reasons Nicholas described earlier in this thread. Of course, there's nothing to stop Wikimania 2014 from raising ticket prices. I should remind though that until 2013 we basically have a hierarchy of 4 ticket prices:
- Non-Wikimedian price: supposedly the full cost (but is still
effectively slightly subsidised) 2. Wikimedian price: substantially subsidised entry and food, for those who've paid a lot to travel to the venue from the other side of the world 3. Partial scholarship: for those who can almost / just about afford to attend Wikimania on their own budget, but would use up their savings unless their air travel was subsidised. The partial scholarship encourages them to go to *more* Wikimanias. 4. Full scholarship (for those who simply can't afford Wikimania)
In 2014, the partial scholarship is removed, so I would hesitate to raise the Wikimedian ticket prices, lest we disincentivise "medium-income" Wikimedians (particularly students) from attending. However, by all means consider raising the non-Wikimedian price, or even have a "donor price" (full cost + £100, say?) with a shiny badge to let generous attendees pay more!
Deryck
Deryck On 23 Mar 2014 08:07, "Charles Gregory" wmau.lists@chuq.net wrote:
My impression was that the prices took into account that (a) most members of the Wikimedia community are volunteers (b) most attendees have paid many hundreds, if not thousands of US$ in airfares/accommodation costs to attend, on top of the ticket price. Volunteers also have to use up their own annual leave (or forgo wages) if their Wikimedia activities are not on behalf of their employer.
You could get away with having separate rates. The other conference I have experience with, Linux.conf.au, has rates which differ by almost an order of magnitude: Professional $899, Hobbyist $399, Student $99. (These prices are Australian dollars, which is approx USD +/- 10%) (IMHO the Hobbyist rate here is still a bit high for a volunteer.) This conference is, however, a major source of income for Linux Australia, whereas Wikimania is indirectly supported by donations to WMF.
Regards,
Charles
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Bashour < nicholasbashour@gmail.com> wrote:
For Wikimania 2012, I remember that we wanted to make sure the largest number of people could attend. DC was an expensive enough city that we felt if registration prices were too high, it may discourage some of the people who didn't get scholarships from attending.
That being said, there's no reason why future Wikimanias shouldn't offer various pricing options, like higher "individual sponsorship" registration for those who want to sponsor on a smaller level, student registration, etc.
Sincerely, Nicholas Michael Bashour
Sent from my iPhone
Am 22.03.2014 um 19:21 schrieb Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Thanks Ed. Since I know your team has thought a lot about who you want to attract: a restating of Lodewijk's Q: how do you expect your pricing to influence who attends, from the city / region / around the world? On Mar 23, 2014 9:24 AM, "Edward Saperia" ed@wikimanialondon.org wrote:
A word from the trenches;
I am very keen to keep Wikimania prices low. It's not quite decided yet, but I think our ticket prices will be less than $100, which compared to any conference of comparable size is absurdly low; it would be worth buying a ticket for the catering alone. It's not unusual for large conferences to cost fifty times this.
However, for the past six months a significant amount of the (volunteer) Wikimania team's time has been dedicated to fundraising, so there is a cost to this.
*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org * facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia
- twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia * 07796955572
133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 23 March 2014 22:03, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
As Wikimedia movement, we have the luxury to approach this question backwards. Instead of thinking about how we will pay for the event (we have many sponsorship opportunities and even a good amount of donations), we can look at who we would want to attend the event. We could design our pricing system such to accommodate that.
So, maybe we should first answer that question - what would our ideal attendance look like?
Best, Lodewijk
2014-03-23 13:48 GMT+01:00 maarten deneckere < maartendeneckere+wikimania@gmail.com>:
Two general thoughts that I think are important. Firstly, most attendees will pay the conference fee themselves. You cannot compare with the general conference where those (high) fees are paid by the university or company of the attendee.
Secondly, selection of Wikimania 2015 location is a voting process with the public, as such bidders will try to keep to conference fees as low as possible.
I personally support Chan's "four group" hierarchy: Non-Wikimedian price, Wikimedian price, Partial scholarship, Full scholarship, and his hesitance to raise general prices.
Maarten Wikimania Cape Townhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015_bids/Cape_Town
2014-03-23 2:54 GMT+01:00 Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com:
Wikimania indeed has a tradition of setting artificially low entry
prices for the reasons Nicholas described earlier in this thread. Of course, there's nothing to stop Wikimania 2014 from raising ticket prices. I should remind though that until 2013 we basically have a hierarchy of 4 ticket prices:
- Non-Wikimedian price: supposedly the full cost (but is still
effectively slightly subsidised) 2. Wikimedian price: substantially subsidised entry and food, for those who've paid a lot to travel to the venue from the other side of the world 3. Partial scholarship: for those who can almost / just about afford to attend Wikimania on their own budget, but would use up their savings unless their air travel was subsidised. The partial scholarship encourages them to go to *more* Wikimanias. 4. Full scholarship (for those who simply can't afford Wikimania)
In 2014, the partial scholarship is removed, so I would hesitate to raise the Wikimedian ticket prices, lest we disincentivise "medium-income" Wikimedians (particularly students) from attending. However, by all means consider raising the non-Wikimedian price, or even have a "donor price" (full cost + £100, say?) with a shiny badge to let generous attendees pay more!
Deryck
Deryck On 23 Mar 2014 08:07, "Charles Gregory" wmau.lists@chuq.net wrote:
My impression was that the prices took into account that (a) most members of the Wikimedia community are volunteers (b) most attendees have paid many hundreds, if not thousands of US$ in airfares/accommodation costs to attend, on top of the ticket price. Volunteers also have to use up their own annual leave (or forgo wages) if their Wikimedia activities are not on behalf of their employer.
You could get away with having separate rates. The other conference I have experience with, Linux.conf.au, has rates which differ by almost an order of magnitude: Professional $899, Hobbyist $399, Student $99. (These prices are Australian dollars, which is approx USD +/- 10%) (IMHO the Hobbyist rate here is still a bit high for a volunteer.) This conference is, however, a major source of income for Linux Australia, whereas Wikimania is indirectly supported by donations to WMF.
Regards,
Charles
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Bashour < nicholasbashour@gmail.com> wrote:
For Wikimania 2012, I remember that we wanted to make sure the largest number of people could attend. DC was an expensive enough city that we felt if registration prices were too high, it may discourage some of the people who didn't get scholarships from attending.
That being said, there's no reason why future Wikimanias shouldn't offer various pricing options, like higher "individual sponsorship" registration for those who want to sponsor on a smaller level, student registration, etc.
Sincerely, Nicholas Michael Bashour
Sent from my iPhone
> Am 22.03.2014 um 19:21 schrieb Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com: > > Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially > low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have > run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices? > > In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each > person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for > local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & > community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps > ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets > are more expensive. > > This has a few benefits: > * tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials > * tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event > * scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars, > professionals, academics all getting covered by their home > institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those > people attending the event. > * more accurate headcounts in advance. > > Warmly, > Sam > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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I am told London is one of the cheapest cities in the world to get to, and the European community is very large; I am hoping we can convene more of the community than has ever been in one place before. Certainly the higher the ticket price, the fewer people will attend, and in fact the WMF has given us strict limits on our maximum prices. I am very proud to be able to offer a cheap tickets, but it's meant that we're spending a lot of our time working on fundraising (which is not as straightforward a process as it sounds, as it turns out corporate sponsors don't particularly care about supporting The Mission), and depending on our fundraising success various aspects of the event may not be as good or professional as they could be: it turns out catering companies don't particularly care about supporting The Mission either.
Given the size of the community as a whole, I continue to be amazed at how small the conference has historically been. Wikimedia is a fascinating thing, so much so that millions of people have volunteered their time to take part. My hypothesis is that there are large groups of Wikimedia participants who are not really aware of the conference, or for one reason or another do not feel welcome to attend, or are unsure of whether the content will be interesting to them; perhaps some people edit articles about a certain subject because they are interested in that subject, not because they're interested in the act of editing. Wikimania - at least from my impressions of HongKong - is really a conference about meta, which makes sense. What else would Wikimedians discuss when they are together except for what it means to be Wikimedian?
A lot of the work I have been doing over the past year has been trying to unpack what "meta wikimedia" is, for people who either haven't really considered it in abstract terms, or for people who are interested in the structure and process of knowledge but have never considered Wikimedia to be relevant to them (e.g. librarians, data scientists, etc) - this train of thought lead to this Wikimania's five themes; Social Machines, The Future of Education, Free Culture, Open Scholarship and Open Data. They're the most concise expression I could find for the subjects that were discussed at Wikimania last year, using only words non-wiki*edians would understand.
Something I'm very keen to do this year is have high quality livestreams of the talks, and have the recordings edited and posted online as quickly as possible. I am sure the number of people who would be interested in watching these talks far exceeds those who are able and willing to physically travel to the event. I would very much like to advertise these livestreams during the conference as centralnotices, but the infrastructure to do this and support the resulting traffic might be something that we can't afford.
I'm not really sure if this answered your question... just some thoughts I've been mulling over recently.
*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org * facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia * twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia * 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 24 March 2014 05:12, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Ed. Since I know your team has thought a lot about who you want to attract: a restating of Lodewijk's Q: how do you expect your pricing to influence who attends, from the city / region / around the world? On Mar 23, 2014 9:24 AM, "Edward Saperia" ed@wikimanialondon.org wrote:
A word from the trenches;
I am very keen to keep Wikimania prices low. It's not quite decided yet, but I think our ticket prices will be less than $100, which compared to any conference of comparable size is absurdly low; it would be worth buying a ticket for the catering alone. It's not unusual for large conferences to cost fifty times this.
However, for the past six months a significant amount of the (volunteer) Wikimania team's time has been dedicated to fundraising, so there is a cost to this.
*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org * facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia
- twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia * 07796955572
133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 23 March 2014 22:03, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
As Wikimedia movement, we have the luxury to approach this question backwards. Instead of thinking about how we will pay for the event (we have many sponsorship opportunities and even a good amount of donations), we can look at who we would want to attend the event. We could design our pricing system such to accommodate that.
So, maybe we should first answer that question - what would our ideal attendance look like?
Best, Lodewijk
2014-03-23 13:48 GMT+01:00 maarten deneckere < maartendeneckere+wikimania@gmail.com>:
Two general thoughts that I think are important. Firstly, most attendees will pay the conference fee themselves. You cannot compare with the general conference where those (high) fees are paid by the university or company of the attendee.
Secondly, selection of Wikimania 2015 location is a voting process with the public, as such bidders will try to keep to conference fees as low as possible.
I personally support Chan's "four group" hierarchy: Non-Wikimedian price, Wikimedian price, Partial scholarship, Full scholarship, and his hesitance to raise general prices.
Maarten Wikimania Cape Townhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015_bids/Cape_Town
2014-03-23 2:54 GMT+01:00 Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com:
Wikimania indeed has a tradition of setting artificially low entry
prices for the reasons Nicholas described earlier in this thread. Of course, there's nothing to stop Wikimania 2014 from raising ticket prices. I should remind though that until 2013 we basically have a hierarchy of 4 ticket prices:
- Non-Wikimedian price: supposedly the full cost (but is still
effectively slightly subsidised) 2. Wikimedian price: substantially subsidised entry and food, for those who've paid a lot to travel to the venue from the other side of the world 3. Partial scholarship: for those who can almost / just about afford to attend Wikimania on their own budget, but would use up their savings unless their air travel was subsidised. The partial scholarship encourages them to go to *more* Wikimanias. 4. Full scholarship (for those who simply can't afford Wikimania)
In 2014, the partial scholarship is removed, so I would hesitate to raise the Wikimedian ticket prices, lest we disincentivise "medium-income" Wikimedians (particularly students) from attending. However, by all means consider raising the non-Wikimedian price, or even have a "donor price" (full cost + £100, say?) with a shiny badge to let generous attendees pay more!
Deryck
Deryck On 23 Mar 2014 08:07, "Charles Gregory" wmau.lists@chuq.net wrote:
My impression was that the prices took into account that (a) most members of the Wikimedia community are volunteers (b) most attendees have paid many hundreds, if not thousands of US$ in airfares/accommodation costs to attend, on top of the ticket price. Volunteers also have to use up their own annual leave (or forgo wages) if their Wikimedia activities are not on behalf of their employer.
You could get away with having separate rates. The other conference I have experience with, Linux.conf.au, has rates which differ by almost an order of magnitude: Professional $899, Hobbyist $399, Student $99. (These prices are Australian dollars, which is approx USD +/- 10%) (IMHO the Hobbyist rate here is still a bit high for a volunteer.) This conference is, however, a major source of income for Linux Australia, whereas Wikimania is indirectly supported by donations to WMF.
Regards,
Charles
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Bashour < nicholasbashour@gmail.com> wrote:
> For Wikimania 2012, I remember that we wanted to make sure the > largest number of people could attend. DC was an expensive enough city that > we felt if registration prices were too high, it may discourage some of the > people who didn't get scholarships from attending. > > That being said, there's no reason why future Wikimanias shouldn't > offer various pricing options, like higher "individual sponsorship" > registration for those who want to sponsor on a smaller level, student > registration, etc. > > Sincerely, > Nicholas Michael Bashour > > Sent from my iPhone > > > Am 22.03.2014 um 19:21 schrieb Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com: > > > > Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially > > low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who > have > > run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices? > > > > In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each > > person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for > > local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & > > community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps > > ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute > tickets > > are more expensive. > > > > This has a few benefits: > > * tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials > > * tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the > event > > * scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars, > > professionals, academics all getting covered by their home > > institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those > > people attending the event. > > * more accurate headcounts in advance. > > > > Warmly, > > Sam > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimania-l mailing list > > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
As a quick note, the ticket prices for GLAM-Wiki in 2013 were set in two tiers - simply "individual" and "institutional", and we left it to people to figure out what they felt was appropriate in their case. I don't think there was a "Wikimedian" rate, but this was implicitly who we were targeting with "individual".
Both were probably below-cost, at £20 and £50 (?) for two days, but I don't have a copy of the calculations to hand to be sure by how much - in any case, the only major cost was that of catering for two days, as the venue and technical support were covered either by the BL or WMUK, and a part-contribution to the cost of speakers travel.
One issue that might be worth bearing in mind is that a below-cost ticket for Wikimania 2014 might well cost substantially more than an above-cost ticket for Wikimania 2005 - as Wikimania has grown, it's being run at a pretty high standard and the costs are no doubt climbing to match. If we want a cheaper conference - should we be scaling back to something less expensive and less professional?
Andrew.
On 23 March 2014 01:54, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com wrote:
Wikimania indeed has a tradition of setting artificially low entry prices for the reasons Nicholas described earlier in this thread. Of course, there's nothing to stop Wikimania 2014 from raising ticket prices. I should remind though that until 2013 we basically have a hierarchy of 4 ticket prices:
- Non-Wikimedian price: supposedly the full cost (but is still effectively
slightly subsidised) 2. Wikimedian price: substantially subsidised entry and food, for those who've paid a lot to travel to the venue from the other side of the world 3. Partial scholarship: for those who can almost / just about afford to attend Wikimania on their own budget, but would use up their savings unless their air travel was subsidised. The partial scholarship encourages them to go to *more* Wikimanias. 4. Full scholarship (for those who simply can't afford Wikimania)
In 2014, the partial scholarship is removed, so I would hesitate to raise the Wikimedian ticket prices, lest we disincentivise "medium-income" Wikimedians (particularly students) from attending. However, by all means consider raising the non-Wikimedian price, or even have a "donor price" (full cost + £100, say?) with a shiny badge to let generous attendees pay more!
Deryck
Deryck
On 23 Mar 2014 08:07, "Charles Gregory" wmau.lists@chuq.net wrote:
My impression was that the prices took into account that (a) most members of the Wikimedia community are volunteers (b) most attendees have paid many hundreds, if not thousands of US$ in airfares/accommodation costs to attend, on top of the ticket price. Volunteers also have to use up their own annual leave (or forgo wages) if their Wikimedia activities are not on behalf of their employer.
You could get away with having separate rates. The other conference I have experience with, Linux.conf.au, has rates which differ by almost an order of magnitude: Professional $899, Hobbyist $399, Student $99. (These prices are Australian dollars, which is approx USD +/- 10%) (IMHO the Hobbyist rate here is still a bit high for a volunteer.) This conference is, however, a major source of income for Linux Australia, whereas Wikimania is indirectly supported by donations to WMF.
Regards,
Charles
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Bashour nicholasbashour@gmail.com wrote:
For Wikimania 2012, I remember that we wanted to make sure the largest number of people could attend. DC was an expensive enough city that we felt if registration prices were too high, it may discourage some of the people who didn't get scholarships from attending.
That being said, there's no reason why future Wikimanias shouldn't offer various pricing options, like higher "individual sponsorship" registration for those who want to sponsor on a smaller level, student registration, etc.
Sincerely, Nicholas Michael Bashour
Sent from my iPhone
Am 22.03.2014 um 19:21 schrieb Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
There's an important question which hasn't been asked in this thread so far: Wikimania 2014 will be big and outreach-focused, with plans for a parallel "wikifest". How will the ticket price of Wikifest compare to Wikimania?
A random idea from me: maybe we should make wikifest more like a museum exhibition, without complementary food, so we can keep the price low? If they want included food, they can pay extra for the non-Wikimedian ticket to Wikimania. On 24 Mar 2014 20:35, "Andrew Gray" andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk wrote:
As a quick note, the ticket prices for GLAM-Wiki in 2013 were set in two tiers - simply "individual" and "institutional", and we left it to people to figure out what they felt was appropriate in their case. I don't think there was a "Wikimedian" rate, but this was implicitly who we were targeting with "individual".
Both were probably below-cost, at £20 and £50 (?) for two days, but I don't have a copy of the calculations to hand to be sure by how much - in any case, the only major cost was that of catering for two days, as the venue and technical support were covered either by the BL or WMUK, and a part-contribution to the cost of speakers travel.
One issue that might be worth bearing in mind is that a below-cost ticket for Wikimania 2014 might well cost substantially more than an above-cost ticket for Wikimania 2005 - as Wikimania has grown, it's being run at a pretty high standard and the costs are no doubt climbing to match. If we want a cheaper conference - should we be scaling back to something less expensive and less professional?
Andrew.
On 23 March 2014 01:54, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com wrote:
Wikimania indeed has a tradition of setting artificially low entry prices for the reasons Nicholas described earlier in this thread. Of course, there's nothing to stop Wikimania 2014 from raising ticket prices. I
should
remind though that until 2013 we basically have a hierarchy of 4 ticket prices:
- Non-Wikimedian price: supposedly the full cost (but is still
effectively
slightly subsidised) 2. Wikimedian price: substantially subsidised entry and food, for those who've paid a lot to travel to the venue from the other side of the world 3. Partial scholarship: for those who can almost / just about afford to attend Wikimania on their own budget, but would use up their savings
unless
their air travel was subsidised. The partial scholarship encourages them
to
go to *more* Wikimanias. 4. Full scholarship (for those who simply can't afford Wikimania)
In 2014, the partial scholarship is removed, so I would hesitate to raise the Wikimedian ticket prices, lest we disincentivise "medium-income" Wikimedians (particularly students) from attending. However, by all means consider raising the non-Wikimedian price, or even have a "donor price" (full cost + £100, say?) with a shiny badge to let generous attendees pay more!
Deryck
Deryck
On 23 Mar 2014 08:07, "Charles Gregory" wmau.lists@chuq.net wrote:
My impression was that the prices took into account that (a) most
members
of the Wikimedia community are volunteers (b) most attendees have paid
many
hundreds, if not thousands of US$ in airfares/accommodation costs to
attend,
on top of the ticket price. Volunteers also have to use up their own
annual
leave (or forgo wages) if their Wikimedia activities are not on behalf
of
their employer.
You could get away with having separate rates. The other conference I have experience with, Linux.conf.au, has rates which differ by almost
an
order of magnitude: Professional $899, Hobbyist $399, Student $99.
(These
prices are Australian dollars, which is approx USD +/- 10%) (IMHO the Hobbyist rate here is still a bit high for a volunteer.) This
conference
is, however, a major source of income for Linux Australia, whereas
Wikimania
is indirectly supported by donations to WMF.
Regards,
Charles
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Bashour nicholasbashour@gmail.com wrote:
For Wikimania 2012, I remember that we wanted to make sure the largest number of people could attend. DC was an expensive enough city that we
felt
if registration prices were too high, it may discourage some of the
people
who didn't get scholarships from attending.
That being said, there's no reason why future Wikimanias shouldn't
offer
various pricing options, like higher "individual sponsorship"
registration
for those who want to sponsor on a smaller level, student
registration, etc.
Sincerely, Nicholas Michael Bashour
Sent from my iPhone
Am 22.03.2014 um 19:21 schrieb Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Just my two cents on ticket prices for Wikimedia conferences:
* I can confirm with what has been said about other, professional conferences. Note the term "professional".
* Having a voluntarily higher price for supportive participants is something we could try. We could even try to distinguish between Wikimedians (a broader definition than scholarship recipients, eg. connected to the voting rights which already define reasonable criteria) and "outsiders".
My personal experience with setting prices for Wikimedia conferences: Concerning WikiCon 2012 we were thinking it from the perspective of the attendee. We wanted to get people who are not Wikimedians to attend as well. So we offered day tickets and set their price according to what we thought would be the max of what somebody who doesn't exactly know what to expect and is just curious would be willing to pay. In that case we came up with 5 EUR, a price level comparable to a visit of a mid-level museum or a disco. The price for the whole conference was then interpolated from that.
So the question is: What is our target group and what makes sense to them to pay? * again, splitting between Wikimedians and non-Wikimedians came to my mind (how does the LinuxConf.au distinguish whether one is hobbyist or professional)? * I agree with what has been said on volunteers not willing to have to pay for their hobby, if they already contribute so much else, no matter what they actually earn.
/Manuel
On Mar 23, 2014 3:30 PM, "Manuel Schneider" manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch wrote:
(how does the LinuxConf.au distinguish whether one is hobbyist or professional)?
They give additional perks to piratical l professional attendees, like more swag, a listing on the web site (IIRC), employer name on badge (IIRC) and a ticket to the Professional Delegates Networking Dinner. But mostly it's the honor system: people are told that if their employer is paying for their attendance, they are expected to get a professional ticket, so people paying their own way can get a hobbyist or student ticket. In my experience most companies respect this: the honor system seems to be working pretty well for them.
Roan
Am 23.03.2014 22:08, schrieb Roan Kattouw:
On Mar 23, 2014 3:30 PM, "Manuel Schneider" <manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch mailto:manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
(how does the LinuxConf.au distinguish whether one is hobbyist or professional)?
They give additional perks to piratical l professional attendees, like more swag, a listing on the web site (IIRC), employer name on badge (IIRC) and a ticket to the Professional Delegates Networking Dinner. But mostly it's the honor system: people are told that if their employer is paying for their attendance, they are expected to get a professional ticket, so people paying their own way can get a hobbyist or student ticket. In my experience most companies respect this: the honor system seems to be working pretty well for them.
thanks for that information.
So back to my question in the last mail: What are our target groups? Would such a system make sense for us - do we have professional visitors?
On the other hand: offering a "sponsorship attendance fee" would be something similar for whoever wants.
/Manuel
On Mar 23, 2014 8:30 PM, "Manuel Schneider" manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch wrote:
Just my two cents on ticket prices for Wikimedia conferences:
- I can confirm with what has been said about other, professional
conferences. Note the term "professional".
- Having a voluntarily higher price for supportive participants is
something we could try. We could even try to distinguish between Wikimedians (a broader definition than scholarship recipients, eg. connected to the voting rights which already define reasonable criteria) and "outsiders".
Maybe just add an extra field in the registration form for (optional) donations? If people want, can pay more. (what they think is worth or whatever)
We do that for Wikimedia DC chapter memberships, although not sure how many people put extra donation.
Katie
My personal experience with setting prices for Wikimedia conferences: Concerning WikiCon 2012 we were thinking it from the perspective of the attendee. We wanted to get people who are not Wikimedians to attend as well. So we offered day tickets and set their price according to what we thought would be the max of what somebody who doesn't exactly know what to expect and is just curious would be willing to pay. In that case we came up with 5 EUR, a price level comparable to a visit of a mid-level museum or a disco. The price for the whole conference was then interpolated from that.
So the question is: What is our target group and what makes sense to them to pay?
- again, splitting between Wikimedians and non-Wikimedians came to my
mind (how does the LinuxConf.au distinguish whether one is hobbyist or professional)?
- I agree with what has been said on volunteers not willing to have to
pay for their hobby, if they already contribute so much else, no matter what they actually earn.
/Manuel
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch
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Where are you seeing the proposed prices? We haven't completely finalized them which is why I am curious.
On Mar 22, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 3/22/2014 4:21 PM, Samuel Klein wrote:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This could be a reasonable approach, but it would need significant effort to ensure awareness of the different options, particularly low-cost tickets for attendees with limited resources. I know part of the reason for keeping them low in the past is that we have wanted to avoid Wikimania becoming the kind of high-priced conference attended exclusively by people with institutional support (corporate or academic types), so that it's still feasible for individuals wanting to attend at their own expense.
For people who are price-sensitive, either because the money is coming out of their own pocket or because they simply don't have the resources, listing higher ticket prices is a major deterrent to attending. They may not even get as far as investigating options to reduce the cost, such as scholarships, because the initial amount seems out of reach. This is particularly true if they are looking at significant travel expenses beyond just the cost of entry to the conference.
--Michael Snow
Ellie - I was looking at the proposed ticket prices in the 2015 bids :)
On 3/22/2014 4:21 PM, Samuel Klein wrote:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In particular, I mean full price tickets. Our most expensive tickets are regularly less than the full cost of participation.
Deryck - I agree, the price community members must pay to attend should not rise. Rupert - yes, subsidizing the cost of helping contributors meet one another is important. But I think we can be more clear about the size of the subsidy: we should know what a "full cost" ticket is, and allow those who can pay it to do so. And perhaps we could also have a "donor" ticket option as Deryck suggests.
Michael Snow writes:
This could be a reasonable approach, but it would need significant effort to ensure awareness of the different options, particularly low-cost tickets for attendees with limited resources.
What about a self-identifying system where anyone can claim a low-cost community ticket? Also noting on the same page the full cost of attending, and offering tickets at that price too.
listing higher ticket prices is a major deterrent to attending.
Worth exploring with data: what inspires or deters attendance. That may be affected by all of: the various prices listed, the difference between the high and low prices listed, presentation of other options, banner text used, &c.
Sam.
On 3/23/2014 12:47 AM, Samuel Klein wrote:
listing higher ticket prices is a major deterrent to attending.
Worth exploring with data: what inspires or deters attendance. That may be affected by all of: the various prices listed, the difference between the high and low prices listed, presentation of other options, banner text used, &c.
Okay, but we should look for existing knowledge and research related to the subject to begin with. Answers for Wikimania ticket pricing are not as straightforward to determine by A/B testing as fundraising approaches. The population involved is a much smaller sample, motivating factors may be more diverse, and the impact on the test subjects perhaps a little too personal for that to be appropriate.
--Michael Snow
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Michael Snow wikipedia@frontier.com wrote:
On 3/23/2014 12:47 AM, Samuel Klein wrote:
listing higher ticket prices is a major deterrent to attending.
Worth exploring with data: what inspires or deters attendance. That may be affected by all of: the various prices listed, the difference between the high and low prices listed, presentation of other options, banner text used, &c.
Okay, but we should look for existing knowledge and research related to the subject to begin with. Answers for Wikimania ticket pricing are not as straightforward to determine by A/B testing as fundraising approaches. The population involved is a much smaller sample, motivating factors may be more diverse, and the impact on the test subjects perhaps a little too personal for that to be appropriate.
Very true. Worth exploring with research, and gathering passive data on current behavior, for a start.
(We do currently show the Wikimania banners to 100M+ readers, I believe, so we have a large sample at that level.)
SJ
I've been surprised at the low prices at Wikimania in Hongkong.
When I attend scientific conferences, the conference fee is typically a few hundred Euro (or Dollar), usually enough to cover the full cost of the conference. That said, these conferences are often organised ad-hoc, or within a very small scientific organisation without much external funding. Moreover, the fees are not really paid by the attendees, but rather by universities or research grants.
I found the low price for Wikimania a very positive thing.
On the other hand, I would prefer to have a tighter, more focussed, and better structured program. Breaks should be breaks, sessions should be strictly time-boxed, session chairs should be in control of timing, and maybe the rate of acceptance of talks should be stricter. While I like the bazaar-like atmosphere, it made it very hard to get to talks in time, and very frustrating for speakers who had to deal with large audience fluctuations much of the time.
Bye,
Stephan
On 23 Mar 2014, at 09:44, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Michael Snow wikipedia@frontier.com wrote:
On 3/23/2014 12:47 AM, Samuel Klein wrote:
listing higher ticket prices is a major deterrent to attending.
Worth exploring with data: what inspires or deters attendance. That may be affected by all of: the various prices listed, the difference between the high and low prices listed, presentation of other options, banner text used, &c.
Okay, but we should look for existing knowledge and research related to the subject to begin with. Answers for Wikimania ticket pricing are not as straightforward to determine by A/B testing as fundraising approaches. The population involved is a much smaller sample, motivating factors may be more diverse, and the impact on the test subjects perhaps a little too personal for that to be appropriate.
Very true. Worth exploring with research, and gathering passive data on current behavior, for a start.
(We do currently show the Wikimania banners to 100M+ readers, I believe, so we have a large sample at that level.)
SJ
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- -------------------------- It can be done! --------------------------------- Please email me as schulz@eprover.org (Stephan Schulz) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Stephan,
Am 23.03.2014 09:51, schrieb Stephan Schulz:
On the other hand, I would prefer to have a tighter, more focussed, and better structured program. Breaks should be breaks, sessions should be strictly time-boxed, session chairs should be in control of timing, and maybe the rate of acceptance of talks should be stricter. While I like the bazaar-like atmosphere, it made it very hard to get to talks in time, and very frustrating for speakers who had to deal with large audience fluctuations much of
I fully agree with that and want to support that. Since several years I am fighting an invisible war against "programmeritis" Wikimania has fallen for.
* have less talks, focus on quality and that people are actually able to digest the information - less is more!
* have a clear, simple schedule. Not several talks in the same slot. It is unmanagable, the time is never shared fairly, people can hardly move between talks happening in the same slot. So you are bound to decide for one slot and than hear all two / three talks before the next break where you can move again.
In the conferences I have organized my worked with a very simple schedule: * every slot is exactly one hour, but the talks are only 45 minutes, the rest is headroom for discussions, break time, time to move rooms, prepare the next talk etc.
* workshop may last several slots to allow a more indepth-treatment of a topic
* to make up for the time there are no coffee breaks etc. - instead coffee and drinks are available in a free space somewhere near the workshop rooms, so people can a) have a drink or snack whenever they want b) we save the time for these breaks c) less crowded cafeteria / buffets as people come at different times
* to allow people to relax one could think about an afternoon break where deliberately nothing is being offered, that allows people to really have a break - and they don't even need to rush to the cafeteria to get their coffee in that time, we normally scheduled 30 minutes for that in midway between Lunch and Dinner
* to cater for informal / on the spot meetings an "Open Space" was offered, a session room adjacent to the other rooms, ideally right next to the coffee buffet, where one can put a pinboard in an area everyone walks by several times during the day. Cards, felt-tip pens, pins and a printed schedule with empty slots are being provided. So people write down their topic and "schedule" it by pinning it in one of the empty slots. Instead of having meetings right on the spot and somewhere on the floor in the hallway, they are a bit more structured, allow for some time to gather people, other people can become interested and join and a real, quite session room with proper chairs and tables can be used for an efficient meeting.
This concept in has lead to less stressful conferences. People are more free what to do, when to relax and have a coffee and are more concetrated during the actual sessions - which also have a bit more time. It has also shown that there is only little problems with sessions taking to long, blowing up the schedule, because there is enough headroom to absorb this.
/Manuel
Manuel Schneider, 24/03/2014 11:07:
I fully agree with that and want to support that. Since several years I am fighting an invisible war against "programmeritis" Wikimania has fallen for.
- have less talks, focus on quality and that people are actually able to
digest the information - less is more!
+1 The counterpart to (falsely) conveying the idea that Wikimania attendance has near-zero cost for attendees (both in terms of finance and personal effort/involvement) is that many people, to get financial support, are forced by the respective organisations/funders to prove they're going to "get stuff done", to "deliver" (usually a presentation, because it's the obvious thing). Instead, we shold have a Wikimania in which we believe enough as to consider it valuable in itself and where people only do stuff they're truly engaged in.
Nemo
Am 24.03.2014 14:45, schrieb Federico Leva (Nemo):
to "deliver" (usually a presentation, because it's the obvious thing).
thanks, yes: I have heard about this last year in fact. A Wikimedian criticed that there were scholarships for people "who do not even give a talk". I found this funny, like having a conference where everyone is talking and nobody listening.
Now I see that this was not just a single weird mind but is actually a real problem.
/Manuel
hi sam,
from time to time you manage to puzzle me. discussions with you are in general path-leading and very inspiring. i appreciate this :) you know why i edit wikipedia? (1) because i want to find that information online afterwards, freely available, no strings attached. and (2) because i love to meet people around the movement so (1) is easier to achieve. you know why people pay money (i.e. donate)? because they like this as well.
you know what would make me stop edit? if you want me to pay additional money only because i am an interested volunteer. this is independent of how much money i earn.
just in case you try to say: i get it cheaper because i am poor, a student, a woman, disabled, or my organisation pays for it. i want to be treated as a normal person, and i want to pay a normal price. i want my organisation to pay a normal price for me in case they pay. i am not a beggar. my organisation is not a beggar. and i do not need WMF to make me one. i want that our local GLAMs who are funded by by tax money i pay are not ripped off additionally by wikimedia foundation triggering high entry prices. this is also valid for people like anasuya sengupta. as she is not contributing, she is not eligible somebody pays her flight and entry to the conference. please do not rip off people like her as well.
so - low ticket prices for everybody - and using donations to make contributing people meet is a good thing. i volunteer to edit wikipedia and i engage myself in fundraising and tax exemption to allow this to people. besides (1) contributing contents, and (2) contributing software, meeting is imo one of the three core functions of the movement.
rupert. https://twitter.com/swissglammies
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 12:21 AM, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 11:41 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.comwrote:
hi sam,
from time to time you manage to puzzle me. discussions with you are in general path-leading and very inspiring. i appreciate this :) you know why i edit wikipedia? (1) because i want to find that information online afterwards, freely available, no strings attached. and (2) because i love to meet people around the movement so (1) is easier to achieve. you know why people pay money (i.e. donate)? because they like this as well.
you know what would make me stop edit? if you want me to pay additional money only because i am an interested volunteer. this is independent of how much money i earn.
just in case you try to say: i get it cheaper because i am poor, a student, a woman, disabled, or my organisation pays for it. i want to be treated as a normal person, and i want to pay a normal price. i want my organisation to pay a normal price for me in case they pay. i am not a beggar. my organisation is not a beggar. and i do not need WMF to make me one. i want that our local GLAMs who are funded by by tax money i pay are not ripped off additionally by wikimedia foundation triggering high entry prices. this is also valid for people like anasuya sengupta. as she is not contributing, she is not eligible somebody pays her flight and entry to the conference. please do not rip off people like her as well.
so - low ticket prices for everybody - and using donations to make contributing people meet is a good thing. i volunteer to edit wikipedia and i engage myself in fundraising and tax exemption to allow this to people. besides (1) contributing contents, and (2) contributing software, meeting is imo one of the three core functions of the movement.
I didn't get that sense from SJ's post at all. Progressive and appropriate pricing that preserves the ability of Wikimedians to attend Wikimania is simply sensible management of donor funds. As a charitable organization that depends on donations, the WMF (and chapters) should not be using those funds to subsidize attendance for those who don't need it. Pricing tickets to all attendees below the cost of participation is a subsidy for all them that many don't need, and it makes sense to me for the WMF to limit subsidies to those participants who have requested it.
Samuel Klein, 23/03/2014 00:21:
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
I agree on the benefits. I wish I could have paid "real" tickets/registration fees in the years when I attended Wikimania: (my time, and secondarily) travel and accommodation would have still been the main costs, but I would have avoided the feeling of being what in Italian is called a "mangia pane a ufo".
Nemo
I am not sure it is the right approach to expect attendees to pay the full price of the per capita conference cost instead of relying on sponsors and donors to cover the majority of the costs.
Having some entry price can serve for creating an interest in the attendee for taking advantage of the conference (after all, they have paid for it, they would not want to waste their own resources), but the overall goal of Wikimania should be to be as inclusive as possible. (The less inclusive it is, the less value it provides to donors, one could argue.)
To achieve inclusivity, I would recommend not setting up barriers that disadvantage groups, by singling them out as receiving subsidies or by setting prices that they cannot hope to pay. (I would also argue that even regional pricing could possibly cause an effect of people feeling like second class attendees.)
We also need to keep in mind, that despite all efforts, it is not possible to come up with a way that can provide support to all potential attendees that require it (scholarships are scarce, subsidies run out); setting unaffordable prices would mean that we would limit the potential attendees to the number of people rich enough who can self select + the hand picked people that are given some form of subsidy (and who knows what group may be left out in the middle).
And finally, we have to consider the function Wikimania serves for many attendees, which is to be able to meet like minded people and socialize (next to learning) - there is a price point where attending Wikimania can be justified as vacation (albeit one that results in contacts and learning that benefit the world), and above which it becomes a "work engagement" (akin to professional academic conferences), however, one where we expect the "employees" to pay.
Best regards, Bence
On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 12:21 AM, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Bence Damokos, 23/03/2014 13:28:
I am not sure it is the right approach to expect attendees to pay the full price of the per capita conference cost instead of relying on sponsors and donors to cover the majority of the costs.
It may also not be the right approach to expect attendees to have the sort of services they have (accommodation, food etc.) for free. Looking close to us, FOSDEM seems to work rather well*, they have no registration fee at all but what expenses do they have?** Is their "population" so different from ours?
Lodewijk, 23/03/2014 14:03:
So, maybe we should first answer that question - what would our ideal attendance look like?
Seconded. The Esino Lario bid tries to start from this fundamental question by the way. (Though all I said on this thread is just my opinion.)
Nemo
(*) They're also much more efficient than Wikimania, e.g. they publish videos in few days. (**) https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2011-April/001302.html says the budget is somewhere on the wiki but not https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:FOSDEM AFAICS.
I have looked at past editions[1]. In general there have been differences of registration costs for participants (mainly a difference between Wikimedia contributor with username or not), but the registration cost never covered the actual cost per participant (including catering, participant package and parties - the costs that normally registration costs cover).
personally I think: * attending the conference and its sessions should be free (it is the Plato legacy and also in Italy universities do the same: you don’t pay to listen, you pay for additional services :) The only payment which might be necessary is only if an insurance is needed (and the cost would be the cost of the personal insurence only). * services should be covered by the registration fee: catering, participant package and parties. This also means that there should be much more scholarships available (for volunteers, contributors, people we want to target specifically). * general costs (i.e. venue, technical, promotional materials, communication, keynotes) should be covered by sponsors and donors.
this system is much more transparent. People can attend the conference without having lunch in the venue (a sandwich in a cafe or a self-service menu is always cheaper than the catering), without a printed booklet and t-shirt and without going to the party. Also if they do not use those services, in any case they will have to register (this facilitates the planning). At the same time scholarship and institutions normally cover registration costs; this means that staff from chapters, WMF, universities and institutions attending Wikimania will cover a reasonable cost per person (and indeed they will not benefit from not covering those costs).
Registration could be 200 $ (for 3 lunches 30$ each, the participant’s package 10$, and two parties 50 $ each). Higher registration costs (differences between pre-registration and registration and between institutions and volunteers/contributors) can be used to contribute to scholarships. iolanda / iopensa
[1] The data available are not very precise but here is a comparative summery https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania/Comparative#Registration and you can find in the upper menu the details for each conference when information are available.
Il giorno 23/mar/2014, alle ore 00:21, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com ha scritto:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I like this idea, Iolanda. It makes sense to have more people attend the conference proper than buy into catering and parties. And also makes sense to let the whole world listen to the lectures.
Though for events that are expected to be oversold, you might need another solution, since not everyone will fit in the main room. But there can be overflow rooms streaming the session for everyone.
Sam.
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Iolanda Pensa iolanda@pensa.it wrote:
I have looked at past editions[1]. In general there have been differences of registration costs for
participants (mainly a difference between Wikimedia contributor with username or not), but the registration cost never covered the actual cost per participant (including catering, participant package and parties - the costs that normally registration costs cover).
personally I think:
- attending the conference and its sessions should be free (it is the
Plato legacy and also in Italy universities do the same: you don't pay to listen, you pay for additional services :) The only payment which might be necessary is only if an insurance is needed (and the cost would be the cost of the personal insurence only).
- services should be covered by the registration fee: catering,
participant package and parties. This also means that there should be much more scholarships available (for volunteers, contributors, people we want to target specifically).
- general costs (i.e. venue, technical, promotional materials,
communication, keynotes) should be covered by sponsors and donors.
this system is much more transparent. People can attend the conference
without having lunch in the venue (a sandwich in a cafe or a self-service menu is always cheaper than the catering), without a printed booklet and t-shirt and without going to the party. Also if they do not use those services, in any case they will have to register (this facilitates the planning).
At the same time scholarship and institutions normally cover registration
costs; this means that staff from chapters, WMF, universities and institutions attending Wikimania will cover a reasonable cost per person (and indeed they will not benefit from not covering those costs).
Registration could be 200 $ (for 3 lunches 30$ each, the participant's
package 10$, and two parties 50 $ each).
Higher registration costs (differences between pre-registration and
registration and between institutions and volunteers/contributors) can be used to contribute to scholarships.
iolanda / iopensa
[1] The data available are not very precise but here is a comparative
summery https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania/Comparative#Registrationand you can find in the upper menu the details for each conference when information are available.
Il giorno 23/mar/2014, alle ore 00:21, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com
ha scritto:
Proposed prices for Wikimania tickets continue to seem artificially low. I'm not sure what the benefit to this is. Could people who have run events in other contexts comment on how you set ticket prices?
In my experience, tickets are set at roughly what it costs for each person to attend. Then there may be different sorts of tickets: for local supporters & volunteers, for school groups, for students & community members, presenters, VIPs & sponsors. Sponsorship helps ensure how many tickets of each type there are. Last-minute tickets are more expensive.
This has a few benefits:
- tickets fully cover the cost of food and materials
- tickets contribute significantly to covering the cost of the event
- scholarships and reimbursements for attendance (for scholars,
professionals, academics all getting covered by their home institutions), in paying for tickets, cover the full cost of those people attending the event.
- more accurate headcounts in advance.
Warmly, Sam
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org