Good evening Wikimaniacs!
We now have a distributed effort by multiple volunteers in Hong Kong to upload all the video footage from Wikimania 2013 onto YouTube. If you gave a presentation or workshop at Wikimania (and haven't requested that we don't video you), keep an eye on WMHK's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/WikimediaHK
The plan is that all videos will be available by the end of February.
We'd be grateful if you can watch your video and see if there are any defects, because we can't watch every second of the uploaded videos to check them!
Deryck
On 14-01-18 08:59 AM, Deryck Chan wrote:
Good evening Wikimaniacs!
We now have a distributed effort by multiple volunteers in Hong Kong to upload all the video footage from Wikimania 2013 onto YouTube. If you gave a presentation or workshop at Wikimania (and haven't requested that we don't video you), keep an eye on WMHK's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/WikimediaHK
The plan is that all videos will be available by the end of February.
We'd be grateful if you can watch your video and see if there are any defects, because we can't watch every second of the uploaded videos to check them!
Deryck
It's wonderful to be able to watch these. Much much thanks for continuing the efforts to get them online. (Both in general, and the links in the specific submission pages themselves: https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges )
Quiddity.
Any plans to upload them to Commons or Internet Archive, or is this something we can get volunteers to help with?
The only reason is that in general, downloading and keeping videos from YouTube violates their terms of service. Even if they are CC licensed.
Thanks. -Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com wrote:
Good evening Wikimaniacs!
We now have a distributed effort by multiple volunteers in Hong Kong to upload all the video footage from Wikimania 2013 onto YouTube. If you gave a presentation or workshop at Wikimania (and haven't requested that we don't video you), keep an eye on WMHK's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/WikimediaHK
The plan is that all videos will be available by the end of February.
We'd be grateful if you can watch your video and see if there are any defects, because we can't watch every second of the uploaded videos to check them!
Deryck
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
No. We figured that uploading to YouTube is the only way we can get all the videos out before Wikimania 2014.
(Longer, more technical answer follows) We performed a series of pilot tests in December and early January and found two main technical problems with uploading the videos from Hong Kong to Commons.
The first one is bandwidth. We have about 1TB of video footage. Because Hong Kong is on the opposite side of the planet from the WMF datacenters, we can only eke out an average speed of 50kB/s even on a "fast" connection in Hong Kong. At that rate it'll take 250 computer-days (plus extra time cost due to errors etc) of non-stop uploading to get it done. We don't have that many dedicated volunteers who are willing to donate that much machine time. In contrast, we can get an average speed of 500kB/s uploading to YouTube because they have a local node in Hong Kong. Enoch Tam (aka. "ET", many of you will remember him for all the errands he ran at Wikimania) and myself are donating all our machine idle time to the task, so we're confident it'll be done in less than a month.
The second challenge is rendering. YouTube isn't just a video CDN; it is a combined rendering and distribution service. The footage we got from SocRec is in unedited 2-4GB chunks of M2T and MTS files, which Commons cannot handle. Uploading to Commons would require the use of rendering software (and a lot of computing) to convert and edit them to OGV. This requires a further amount of volunteer dedication, video-editing software, and computing power which we don't have. The strategy at the moment is that we upload the raw footage to YouTube, then edit them into sessions using YouTube's browser video editor.
To see the details and progress of what we're doing, see https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Video_upload .
We did contemplate, at one point about two weeks ago, that we shouldn't even attempt to upload the videos from Hong Kong, and just mail the 2TB external HDD with the raw footage to WMF or WMUK. Now that Andrew pointed out that downloading and keeping a copy of YouTube videos violates their TOS regardless of licence, I guess we could've just given up back then. I guess the best course of action now is that we continue uploading and editing the videos on YouTube. If someone at WMF or WMUK is willing to render and edit the videos again from scratch, we'll send them the HDD after we're done here.
Deryck
On 20 Jan 2014 23:19, "Andrew Lih" andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
Any plans to upload them to Commons or Internet Archive, or is this something we can get volunteers to help with?
The only reason is that in general, downloading and keeping videos from YouTube violates their terms of service. Even if they are CC licensed.
Thanks. -Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.comwrote:
Good evening Wikimaniacs!
We now have a distributed effort by multiple volunteers in Hong Kong to upload all the video footage from Wikimania 2013 onto YouTube. If you gave a presentation or workshop at Wikimania (and haven't requested that we don't video you), keep an eye on WMHK's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/WikimediaHK
The plan is that all videos will be available by the end of February.
We'd be grateful if you can watch your video and see if there are any defects, because we can't watch every second of the uploaded videos to check them!
Deryck
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Thanks for the extensive explanation, and as someone who's helped with Wikimania video in the past, I absolutely feel your pain and commend you for doing what you have so far.
Downloading from YouTube violates their TOS, though you'll notice people do it all the time.
-Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 11:05 PM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com wrote:
No. We figured that uploading to YouTube is the only way we can get all the videos out before Wikimania 2014.
(Longer, more technical answer follows) We performed a series of pilot tests in December and early January and found two main technical problems with uploading the videos from Hong Kong to Commons.
The first one is bandwidth. We have about 1TB of video footage. Because Hong Kong is on the opposite side of the planet from the WMF datacenters, we can only eke out an average speed of 50kB/s even on a "fast" connection in Hong Kong. At that rate it'll take 250 computer-days (plus extra time cost due to errors etc) of non-stop uploading to get it done. We don't have that many dedicated volunteers who are willing to donate that much machine time. In contrast, we can get an average speed of 500kB/s uploading to YouTube because they have a local node in Hong Kong. Enoch Tam (aka. "ET", many of you will remember him for all the errands he ran at Wikimania) and myself are donating all our machine idle time to the task, so we're confident it'll be done in less than a month.
The second challenge is rendering. YouTube isn't just a video CDN; it is a combined rendering and distribution service. The footage we got from SocRec is in unedited 2-4GB chunks of M2T and MTS files, which Commons cannot handle. Uploading to Commons would require the use of rendering software (and a lot of computing) to convert and edit them to OGV. This requires a further amount of volunteer dedication, video-editing software, and computing power which we don't have. The strategy at the moment is that we upload the raw footage to YouTube, then edit them into sessions using YouTube's browser video editor.
To see the details and progress of what we're doing, see https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Video_upload .
We did contemplate, at one point about two weeks ago, that we shouldn't even attempt to upload the videos from Hong Kong, and just mail the 2TB external HDD with the raw footage to WMF or WMUK. Now that Andrew pointed out that downloading and keeping a copy of YouTube videos violates their TOS regardless of licence, I guess we could've just given up back then. I guess the best course of action now is that we continue uploading and editing the videos on YouTube. If someone at WMF or WMUK is willing to render and edit the videos again from scratch, we'll send them the HDD after we're done here.
Deryck
On 20 Jan 2014 23:19, "Andrew Lih" andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
Any plans to upload them to Commons or Internet Archive, or is this something we can get volunteers to help with?
The only reason is that in general, downloading and keeping videos from YouTube violates their terms of service. Even if they are CC licensed.
Thanks. -Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.comwrote:
Good evening Wikimaniacs!
We now have a distributed effort by multiple volunteers in Hong Kong to upload all the video footage from Wikimania 2013 onto YouTube. If you gave a presentation or workshop at Wikimania (and haven't requested that we don't video you), keep an eye on WMHK's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/WikimediaHK
The plan is that all videos will be available by the end of February.
We'd be grateful if you can watch your video and see if there are any defects, because we can't watch every second of the uploaded videos to check them!
Deryck
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Andrew Lih, 21/01/2014 06:05:
Thanks for the extensive explanation, and as someone who's helped with Wikimania video in the past, I absolutely feel your pain and commend you for doing what you have so far.
Downloading from YouTube violates their TOS, though you'll notice people do it all the time.
I've uploaded thousands of YouTube videos to archive.org, I can do these too with no problem.
Nemo
Oh I can do it, and I know how to do so technically. I'm just pointing out by the letter of YouTube's TOS it's not permitted. :)
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.comwrote:
Andrew Lih, 21/01/2014 06:05:
Thanks for the extensive explanation, and as someone who's helped with
Wikimania video in the past, I absolutely feel your pain and commend you for doing what you have so far.
Downloading from YouTube violates their TOS, though you'll notice people do it all the time.
I've uploaded thousands of YouTube videos to archive.org, I can do these too with no problem.
Nemo
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I already started uploading around 15 of them, not reading the ToS beforehand. :/
I used the script youtube2mediawiki.py so I am not sure I technically have 'downloaded' the files, at least they have never been on my computer.
/Jan
21 januari 2014, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com skrev:
Oh I can do it, and I know how to do so technically. I'm just pointing out by the letter of YouTube's TOS it's not permitted. :)
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki@gmail.com> wrote:
Andrew Lih, 21/01/2014 06:05:
Thanks for the extensive explanation, and as someone who's helped with Wikimania video in the past, I absolutely feel your pain and commend you for doing what you have so far.
Downloading from YouTube violates their TOS, though you'll notice people do it all the time.
I've uploaded thousands of YouTube videos to http://archive.org, I can do these too with no problem.Nemo
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I've just scrutinised the YouTube TOS in detail for the first time. The clause which says you can't download videos is in 5(B): (my emphasis)
You may access Content for your information and personal use solely as
intended through the provided functionality of the Service and as permitted under these Terms of Service. *You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content.* You shall not copy, reproduce, make available online or electronically transmit, publish, adapt, distribute, transmit, broadcast, display, sell, license, or otherwise exploit any Content for any other purposes *without the prior written consent of YouTube or the respective licensors of the Content*. YouTube and its licensors reserve all rights not expressly granted in and to the Service and the Content.
We obviously have the prior written consent to reproduce the videos to Commons. From my reading of the TOS, copying the videos to Commons shouldn't violate the TOS (in part because it wasn't "downloaded" - though "download" wasn't explicitly defined in the TOS).
IANAL.
On 21 January 2014 23:50, Jan Ainali jan@ainali.com wrote:
I already started uploading around 15 of them, not reading the ToS beforehand. :/
I used the script youtube2mediawiki.py so I am not sure I technically have 'downloaded' the files, at least they have never been on my computer.
/Jan
21 januari 2014, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com skrev:
Oh I can do it, and I know how to do so technically. I'm just pointing out by the letter of YouTube's TOS it's not permitted. :)
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.comwrote:
Andrew Lih, 21/01/2014 06:05:
Thanks for the extensive explanation, and as someone who's helped with Wikimania video in the past, I absolutely feel your pain and commend you for doing what you have so far.
Downloading from YouTube violates their TOS, though you'll notice people do it all the time.
I've uploaded thousands of YouTube videos to archive.org, I can do these too with no problem.
Nemo
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I agree. Not only are "we"[1] the owners of the copyright, we are explicitly releasing it under a CC-by-sa license, which _does_ constitute "prior written consent of [...] the respective licensors of the Content".
Kudos to Deryck and Enoch for tackling this bummer of a task for all of us. It's worthwhile labor, and will serve us for years[2].
Cheers,
Asaf
[1] for some definition of "we" [2] I have had occasion to watch a WM2012 session just last week.
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com wrote:
I've just scrutinised the YouTube TOS in detail for the first time. The clause which says you can't download videos is in 5(B): (my emphasis)
You may access Content for your information and personal use solely as
intended through the provided functionality of the Service and as permitted under these Terms of Service. *You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content.* You shall not copy, reproduce, make available online or electronically transmit, publish, adapt, distribute, transmit, broadcast, display, sell, license, or otherwise exploit any Content for any other purposes *without the prior written consent of YouTube or the respective licensors of the Content*. YouTube and its licensors reserve all rights not expressly granted in and to the Service and the Content.
We obviously have the prior written consent to reproduce the videos to Commons. From my reading of the TOS, copying the videos to Commons shouldn't violate the TOS (in part because it wasn't "downloaded" - though "download" wasn't explicitly defined in the TOS).
IANAL.
On 21 January 2014 23:50, Jan Ainali jan@ainali.com wrote:
I already started uploading around 15 of them, not reading the ToS beforehand. :/
I used the script youtube2mediawiki.py so I am not sure I technically have 'downloaded' the files, at least they have never been on my computer.
/Jan
21 januari 2014, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com skrev:
Oh I can do it, and I know how to do so technically. I'm just pointing out by the letter of YouTube's TOS it's not permitted. :)
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki@gmail.com
wrote:
Andrew Lih, 21/01/2014 06:05:
Thanks for the extensive explanation, and as someone who's helped with Wikimania video in the past, I absolutely feel your pain and commend you for doing what you have so far.
Downloading from YouTube violates their TOS, though you'll notice people do it all the time.
I've uploaded thousands of YouTube videos to archive.org, I can do these too with no problem.
Nemo
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Yes, that's related to copyright and permissions of the material, but what about that first sentence:
*You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content*
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com wrote:
I've just scrutinised the YouTube TOS in detail for the first time. The clause which says you can't download videos is in 5(B): (my emphasis)
You may access Content for your information and personal use solely as
intended through the provided functionality of the Service and as permitted under these Terms of Service. *You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content.* You shall not copy, reproduce, make available online or electronically transmit, publish, adapt, distribute, transmit, broadcast, display, sell, license, or otherwise exploit any Content for any other purposes *without the prior written consent of YouTube or the respective licensors of the Content*. YouTube and its licensors reserve all rights not expressly granted in and to the Service and the Content.
We obviously have the prior written consent to reproduce the videos to Commons. From my reading of the TOS, copying the videos to Commons shouldn't violate the TOS (in part because it wasn't "downloaded" - though "download" wasn't explicitly defined in the TOS).
IANAL.
On 21 January 2014 23:50, Jan Ainali jan@ainali.com wrote:
I already started uploading around 15 of them, not reading the ToS beforehand. :/
I used the script youtube2mediawiki.py so I am not sure I technically have 'downloaded' the files, at least they have never been on my computer.
/Jan
21 januari 2014, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com skrev:
Oh I can do it, and I know how to do so technically. I'm just pointing out by the letter of YouTube's TOS it's not permitted. :)
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki@gmail.com
wrote:
Andrew Lih, 21/01/2014 06:05:
Thanks for the extensive explanation, and as someone who's helped with Wikimania video in the past, I absolutely feel your pain and commend you for doing what you have so far.
Downloading from YouTube violates their TOS, though you'll notice people do it all the time.
I've uploaded thousands of YouTube videos to archive.org, I can do these too with no problem.
Nemo
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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On 21 January 2014 21:15, Katie Chan katie.chan@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
What do you mean by edit? Are we just talking about combining the chunks and then rendering? If so, that's doable. The advantages of sending it to WMF however is that someone there have direct access to the server and can upload quicker / accept bigger file size.
Yes. By "edit" I mean "combine the chunks and cut them into sessions".
On 22 January 2014 01:49, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
Yes, that's related to copyright and permissions of the material, but what about that first sentence:
*You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content*
Jan pointed out that youtube2mediawiki.py doesn't actually "download" the video, so I think we're fine with the provisions of licensor's permission in the sentence below.
Commons is ultra-conservative with copyright, but doesn't really care about any other terms and conditions imposed by anyone else. So I think it's fine to transfer the videos from YouTube to Commons - no copyright is violated and the ambiguity in the YouTube TOS works in our favour.
On 22 January 2014 01:49, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
Yes, that's related to copyright and permissions of the material, but what about that first sentence:
*You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content*
Jan pointed out that youtube2mediawiki.py doesn't actually "download" the video, so I think we're fine with the provisions of licensor's permission in the sentence below.
Well not exactly -- just because the downloading is modularized into a Python script doesn't mean it's not downloading. :) The exact code actually does download:
#download video and save to file. u = self.opener.open(url) f = open(filename, 'w') data = True while data: data = u.read(4096) f.write(data) f.close() u.close() return True
Commons is ultra-conservative with copyright, but doesn't really care about any other terms and conditions imposed by anyone else. So I think it's fine to transfer the videos from YouTube to Commons - no copyright is violated and the ambiguity in the YouTube TOS works in our favour.
Yes, I do believe there's not much to worry about in this particular situation. Just be aware that we're running afoul of the TOS, even if Google is lax on enforcement. A violation of TOS could be used to go after users in other less clear-cut cases.
-Andrew
Actually, there's a "Download MP4" button when I'm logged in as Wikimedia Hong Kong (channel owner). So if you want to transfer the videos, email me off-list and I'll add you to the admin list of the WMHK YouTube channel. Then everybody including the YouTube TOS will be happy. On 22 Jan 2014 19:58, "Andrew Lih" andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
On 22 January 2014 01:49, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
Yes, that's related to copyright and permissions of the material, but what about that first sentence:
*You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content*
Jan pointed out that youtube2mediawiki.py doesn't actually "download" the video, so I think we're fine with the provisions of licensor's permission in the sentence below.
Well not exactly -- just because the downloading is modularized into a Python script doesn't mean it's not downloading. :) The exact code actually does download:
#download video and save to file. u = self.opener.open(url) f = open(filename, 'w') data = True while data: data = u.read(4096) f.write(data) f.close() u.close() return True
Commons is ultra-conservative with copyright, but doesn't really care about any other terms and conditions imposed by anyone else. So I think it's fine to transfer the videos from YouTube to Commons - no copyright is violated and the ambiguity in the YouTube TOS works in our favour.
Yes, I do believe there's not much to worry about in this particular situation. Just be aware that we're running afoul of the TOS, even if Google is lax on enforcement. A violation of TOS could be used to go after users in other less clear-cut cases.
-Andrew
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Clever workaround!
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 7:43 AM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, there's a "Download MP4" button when I'm logged in as Wikimedia Hong Kong (channel owner). So if you want to transfer the videos, email me off-list and I'll add you to the admin list of the WMHK YouTube channel. Then everybody including the YouTube TOS will be happy. On 22 Jan 2014 19:58, "Andrew Lih" andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
On 22 January 2014 01:49, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
Yes, that's related to copyright and permissions of the material, but what about that first sentence:
*You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content*
Jan pointed out that youtube2mediawiki.py doesn't actually "download" the video, so I think we're fine with the provisions of licensor's permission in the sentence below.
Well not exactly -- just because the downloading is modularized into a Python script doesn't mean it's not downloading. :) The exact code actually does download:
#download video and save to file. u = self.opener.open(url) f = open(filename, 'w') data = True while data: data = u.read(4096) f.write(data) f.close() u.close() return True
Commons is ultra-conservative with copyright, but doesn't really care about any other terms and conditions imposed by anyone else. So I think it's fine to transfer the videos from YouTube to Commons - no copyright is violated and the ambiguity in the YouTube TOS works in our favour.
Yes, I do believe there's not much to worry about in this particular situation. Just be aware that we're running afoul of the TOS, even if Google is lax on enforcement. A violation of TOS could be used to go after users in other less clear-cut cases.
-Andrew
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Hello Wikimaniacs again!
We've uploaded and released all the available Wikimania 2013 videos onto WMHK's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/wikimediahk
The submission pages now have links to the videos on YouTube. The videos can also be searched on YouTube by name of lead author or title of presentation; some titles have been modified to fit the title length limit.
A few sessions' footage (including the closing ceremony, unfortunately) are corrupt and couldn't be recovered. In a few other sessions, somebody accidentally turned off or forgot to turn on the camera, so only part of the session was recorded; these incomplete videos were uploaded anyway.
Next step: We have two 2TB HDDs, each containing a complete copy of the footage (one of them also has the corrupted footage fragments). We are happy to mail them to someone at WMF or a European / North American chapter so they can process the footage, re-render it (and improve the audio quality!), and upload them to Commons.
Deryck
PS. Thanks Enoch Tam and Walter Wan who contributed to the uploading work!
On 21 January 2014 13:05, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
Thanks for the extensive explanation, and as someone who's helped with Wikimania video in the past, I absolutely feel your pain and commend you for doing what you have so far.
Downloading from YouTube violates their TOS, though you'll notice people do it all the time.
-Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 11:05 PM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.comwrote:
No. We figured that uploading to YouTube is the only way we can get all the videos out before Wikimania 2014.
(Longer, more technical answer follows) We performed a series of pilot tests in December and early January and found two main technical problems with uploading the videos from Hong Kong to Commons.
The first one is bandwidth. We have about 1TB of video footage. Because Hong Kong is on the opposite side of the planet from the WMF datacenters, we can only eke out an average speed of 50kB/s even on a "fast" connection in Hong Kong. At that rate it'll take 250 computer-days (plus extra time cost due to errors etc) of non-stop uploading to get it done. We don't have that many dedicated volunteers who are willing to donate that much machine time. In contrast, we can get an average speed of 500kB/s uploading to YouTube because they have a local node in Hong Kong. Enoch Tam (aka. "ET", many of you will remember him for all the errands he ran at Wikimania) and myself are donating all our machine idle time to the task, so we're confident it'll be done in less than a month.
The second challenge is rendering. YouTube isn't just a video CDN; it is a combined rendering and distribution service. The footage we got from SocRec is in unedited 2-4GB chunks of M2T and MTS files, which Commons cannot handle. Uploading to Commons would require the use of rendering software (and a lot of computing) to convert and edit them to OGV. This requires a further amount of volunteer dedication, video-editing software, and computing power which we don't have. The strategy at the moment is that we upload the raw footage to YouTube, then edit them into sessions using YouTube's browser video editor.
To see the details and progress of what we're doing, see https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Video_upload .
We did contemplate, at one point about two weeks ago, that we shouldn't even attempt to upload the videos from Hong Kong, and just mail the 2TB external HDD with the raw footage to WMF or WMUK. Now that Andrew pointed out that downloading and keeping a copy of YouTube videos violates their TOS regardless of licence, I guess we could've just given up back then. I guess the best course of action now is that we continue uploading and editing the videos on YouTube. If someone at WMF or WMUK is willing to render and edit the videos again from scratch, we'll send them the HDD after we're done here.
Deryck
On 20 Jan 2014 23:19, "Andrew Lih" andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
Any plans to upload them to Commons or Internet Archive, or is this something we can get volunteers to help with?
The only reason is that in general, downloading and keeping videos from YouTube violates their terms of service. Even if they are CC licensed.
Thanks. -Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.comwrote:
Good evening Wikimaniacs!
We now have a distributed effort by multiple volunteers in Hong Kong to upload all the video footage from Wikimania 2013 onto YouTube. If you gave a presentation or workshop at Wikimania (and haven't requested that we don't video you), keep an eye on WMHK's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/WikimediaHK
The plan is that all videos will be available by the end of February.
We'd be grateful if you can watch your video and see if there are any defects, because we can't watch every second of the uploaded videos to check them!
Deryck
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Dear Deryck,
Thanks for your great job!
For the closing ceremony, do you think you can recover from Livestream?
Best regards, Alan Lai Sent on the road
---- Deryck Chan wrote ----
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Alan C Y Lai, 05/02/2014 08:07:
Dear Deryck,
Thanks for your great job!
For the closing ceremony, do you think you can recover from Livestream?
Livestream videos have been on archive.org since the beginning. https://archive.org/search.php?query=wikimania2013-plenary
Nemo
I thought I could, until I realised that the closing ceremony has never been broadcast on livestream! On 5 Feb 2014 15:07, "Alan C Y Lai" alancylai@wikimedia.hk wrote:
Dear Deryck,
Thanks for your great job!
For the closing ceremony, do you think you can recover from Livestream?
Best regards, Alan Lai Sent on the road
---- Deryck Chan wrote ----
Hello Wikimaniacs again!
We've uploaded and released all the available Wikimania 2013 videos onto WMHK's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/wikimediahk
The submission pages now have links to the videos on YouTube. The videos can also be searched on YouTube by name of lead author or title of presentation; some titles have been modified to fit the title length limit.
A few sessions' footage (including the closing ceremony, unfortunately) are corrupt and couldn't be recovered. In a few other sessions, somebody accidentally turned off or forgot to turn on the camera, so only part of the session was recorded; these incomplete videos were uploaded anyway.
Next step: We have two 2TB HDDs, each containing a complete copy of the footage (one of them also has the corrupted footage fragments). We are happy to mail them to someone at WMF or a European / North American chapter so they can process the footage, re-render it (and improve the audio quality!), and upload them to Commons.
Deryck
PS. Thanks Enoch Tam and Walter Wan who contributed to the uploading work!
On 21 January 2014 13:05, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
Thanks for the extensive explanation, and as someone who's helped with Wikimania video in the past, I absolutely feel your pain and commend you for doing what you have so far.
Downloading from YouTube violates their TOS, though you'll notice people do it all the time.
-Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 11:05 PM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.comwrote:
No. We figured that uploading to YouTube is the only way we can get all the videos out before Wikimania 2014.
(Longer, more technical answer follows) We performed a series of pilot tests in December and early January and found two main technical problems with uploading the videos from Hong Kong to Commons.
The first one is bandwidth. We have about 1TB of video footage. Because Hong Kong is on the opposite side of the planet from the WMF datacenters, we can only eke out an average speed of 50kB/s even on a "fast" connection in Hong Kong. At that rate it'll take 250 computer-days (plus extra time cost due to errors etc) of non-stop uploading to get it done. We don't have that many dedicated volunteers who are willing to donate that much machine time. In contrast, we can get an average speed of 500kB/s uploading to YouTube because they have a local node in Hong Kong. Enoch Tam (aka. "ET", many of you will remember him for all the errands he ran at Wikimania) and myself are donating all our machine idle time to the task, so we're confident it'll be done in less than a month.
The second challenge is rendering. YouTube isn't just a video CDN; it is a combined rendering and distribution service. The footage we got from SocRec is in unedited 2-4GB chunks of M2T and MTS files, which Commons cannot handle. Uploading to Commons would require the use of rendering software (and a lot of computing) to convert and edit them to OGV. This requires a further amount of volunteer dedication, video-editing software, and computing power which we don't have. The strategy at the moment is that we upload the raw footage to YouTube, then edit them into sessions using YouTube's browser video editor.
To see the details and progress of what we're doing, see https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Video_upload .
We did contemplate, at one point about two weeks ago, that we shouldn't even attempt to upload the videos from Hong Kong, and just mail the 2TB external HDD with the raw footage to WMF or WMUK. Now that Andrew pointed out that downloading and keeping a copy of YouTube videos violates their TOS regardless of licence, I guess we could've just given up back then. I guess the best course of action now is that we continue uploading and editing the videos on YouTube. If someone at WMF or WMUK is willing to render and edit the videos again from scratch, we'll send them the HDD after we're done here.
Deryck
On 20 Jan 2014 23:19, "Andrew Lih" andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
Any plans to upload them to Commons or Internet Archive, or is this something we can get volunteers to help with?
The only reason is that in general, downloading and keeping videos from YouTube violates their terms of service. Even if they are CC licensed.
Thanks. -Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.comwrote:
Good evening Wikimaniacs!
We now have a distributed effort by multiple volunteers in Hong Kong to upload all the video footage from Wikimania 2013 onto YouTube. If you gave a presentation or workshop at Wikimania (and haven't requested that we don't video you), keep an eye on WMHK's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/WikimediaHK
The plan is that all videos will be available by the end of February.
We'd be grateful if you can watch your video and see if there are any defects, because we can't watch every second of the uploaded videos to check them!
Deryck
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Deryck Chan, 18/01/2014 17:59:
We now have a distributed effort by multiple volunteers in Hong Kong to upload all the video footage from Wikimania 2013 onto YouTube.
Thanks for coordinating and to all the volunteers involved, an amusing effort! I saw that you used the YouTube video editor and there are videos in HD too (1280x720px): Hong Kong beats Washington, arriving first despite a slower start. ;-) Please add your learnings to the Wikimania Handbook. I noticed two things: * WebM format is available at varying qualities, I suppose they're still being derived but I'm not sure. * Some videos/rooms have very poor audio, but it may be my hardware fault too. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciaK855R66g
Nemo
On 21 January 2014 04:35, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
Deryck Chan, 18/01/2014 17:59:
We now have a distributed effort by multiple volunteers in Hong Kong to
upload all the video footage from Wikimania 2013 onto YouTube.
Thanks for coordinating and to all the volunteers involved, an amusing effort! I saw that you used the YouTube video editor and there are videos in HD too (1280x720px): Hong Kong beats Washington, arriving first despite a slower start. ;-) Please add your learnings to the Wikimania Handbook. I noticed two things:
- WebM format is available at varying qualities, I suppose they're still
being derived but I'm not sure.
See my other post to the thread.
* Some videos/rooms have very poor audio, but it may be my hardware fault
too. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciaK855R66g
Yea. Sadly we haven't got many wireless microphones at Wikimania 2013. There's not much we can do with audio quality when the speaker doesn't talk straight into the microphone. Most of us prefer to dance around the stage and entertain the live audience as our only priority.
Nemo
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
And now all the 71 1280x720px videos are on https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Wikimania+2013%22 too. In a couple hours at most they should all have ogv.
Nemo
If anyone has a clever filter (and some computing power) to improve the sound quality of some of the videos, that'll be fabulous :) Deryck On 26 Jan 2014 19:48, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
And now all the 71 1280x720px videos are on https://archive.org/search. php?query=subject%3A%22Wikimania+2013%22 too. In a couple hours at most they should all have ogv.
Nemo
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Nemo++ \o/
A.
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 3:48 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.comwrote:
And now all the 71 1280x720px videos are on https://archive.org/search. php?query=subject%3A%22Wikimania+2013%22 too. In a couple hours at most they should all have ogv.
Nemo
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 01/26/2014 06:48 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
And now all the 71 1280x720px videos are on https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Wikimania+2013%22 too. In a couple hours at most they should all have ogv.
Thanks very much. :)
I've uploaded a few videos to Wikimedia Commons, and added support for linking to Commons video to https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Media (commons_video field):
* https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_2013_-_Make_your_user_expe... * https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_2013_-_What_is_a_product_m... * https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_2013_-_Forget_the_tutorial... * https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_2013_-_Improving_the_user_... * https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_2013_-_Snuggle.ogv#.7B.7Bi...
There is a category at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2013_presentation_vide... , if anyone hasn't seen it yet.
Matt Flaschen
Thanks for sharing. I didn't know of the category. Only 21 videos so far?
rexford | google.com/+nkansahrexford | sent from tab On Mar 25, 2014 8:07 PM, "Matthew Flaschen" mflaschen@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 01/26/2014 06:48 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
And now all the 71 1280x720px videos are on https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Wikimania+2013%22 too. In a couple hours at most they should all have ogv.
Thanks very much. :)
I've uploaded a few videos to Wikimedia Commons, and added support for linking to Commons video to https://wikimania2013. wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Media (commons_video field):
Make_your_user_experience_easy_to_learn_-_A_guided_tour.ogv
What_is_a_product_manager_and_why_does_Wikimedia_need_them% 3F.ogv#.7B.7Bint:filedesc.7D.7D
Forget_the_tutorials,_be_bold.ogv
Improving_the_user_experience_of_language_tools.ogv#.7B. 7Bint:filedesc.7D.7D
Snuggle.ogv#.7B.7Bint:filedesc.7D.7D
There is a category at https://commons.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Category:Wikimania_2013_presentation_videos , if anyone hasn't seen it yet.
Matt Flaschen
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 26 March 2014 04:12, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for sharing. I didn't know of the category. Only 21 videos so far?
There hasn't been a concerted effort to copy the videos because some of us (on this mailing list) are worried that transferring YouTube videos to Commons may violate YouTube's TOS.
rexford | google.com/+nkansahrexford | sent from tab On Mar 25, 2014 8:07 PM, "Matthew Flaschen" mflaschen@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 01/26/2014 06:48 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
And now all the 71 1280x720px videos are on https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Wikimania+2013%22 too. In a couple hours at most they should all have ogv.
Thanks very much. :)
I've uploaded a few videos to Wikimedia Commons, and added support for linking to Commons video to https://wikimania2013. wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Media (commons_video field):
Make_your_user_experience_easy_to_learn_-_A_guided_tour.ogv
What_is_a_product_manager_and_why_does_Wikimedia_need_them% 3F.ogv#.7B.7Bint:filedesc.7D.7D
Forget_the_tutorials,_be_bold.ogv
Improving_the_user_experience_of_language_tools.ogv#.7B. 7Bint:filedesc.7D.7D
Snuggle.ogv#.7B.7Bint:filedesc.7D.7D
There is a category at https://commons.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Category:Wikimania_2013_presentation_videos , if anyone hasn't seen it yet.
Matt Flaschen
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 26 March 2014 04:12, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for sharing. I didn't know of the category. Only 21 videos so far?
There hasn't been a concerted effort to copy the videos because some of us (on this mailing list) are worried that transferring YouTube videos to Commons may violate YouTube's TOS.
rexford | google.com/+nkansahrexford | sent from tab On Mar 25, 2014 8:07 PM, "Matthew Flaschen" mflaschen@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 01/26/2014 06:48 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
And now all the 71 1280x720px videos are on https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Wikimania+2013%22 too. In a couple hours at most they should all have ogv.
Thanks very much. :)
I've uploaded a few videos to Wikimedia Commons, and added support for linking to Commons video to https://wikimania2013. wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Media (commons_video field):
Make_your_user_experience_easy_to_learn_-_A_guided_tour.ogv
What_is_a_product_manager_and_why_does_Wikimedia_need_them% 3F.ogv#.7B.7Bint:filedesc.7D.7D
Forget_the_tutorials,_be_bold.ogv
Improving_the_user_experience_of_language_tools.ogv#.7B. 7Bint:filedesc.7D.7D
Snuggle.ogv#.7B.7Bint:filedesc.7D.7D
There is a category at https://commons.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Category:Wikimania_2013_presentation_videos , if anyone hasn't seen it yet.
Matt Flaschen
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org