Given the context of the previous email you sent, I am assuming this is more a complaint that you didn't get selected than that the other two got selected.

Similarly to the previous time you tried to have this discussion - I feel uncomfortable to make this about individuals.

Is there a way to give rejected applicants more feedback on which factors play a main role, so that they can learn from it, especially if there is something they could improve in their application. I would add two sidenotes here though: it should only be provided on request (no need to rub people's noses into something unnecessarily) and it seems only viable at a level that can be easily extracted from the process (high level).

Perhaps someone who knows the scholarship committee's work intimately could comment.

Best, Lodewijk

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:21 AM, praveenp me.praveen@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

Congratulation to all the selection committee who break the tradition[1] of selecting one of the Malayalam communities two permanent Wikimania attendees, by selecting both of them.

Congratulation to User:Netha Hussain & User:viswaprabha also.

[1] "Granting Scholarship to same persons every year" thread, https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2017-May/008026.html

~User:Praveenp

On Tuesday 15 May 2018 11:19 PM, Ellie Young wrote:

• All, Here's an update on various activities pertaining to the upcoming

Wikimania '18 which is being held July 18-22 in Cape Town, South Africa. WMF Scholarship Program: 135 people were offered and subsequently accepted a full or partial scholarship to attend. The awardees are listed by user names and the list is posted here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholars https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholarsSubmissions: The program committee has just finished its review and deliberations. Rejections and acceptance emails have gone out in the past week. 95% of the accepted submissions are listed at: https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program Plenaries and other sessions will be listed soon and a scheduled program in June. Registration and accommodation information is now up for everyone at: https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registrationhttps://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodation https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/AccommodationIf you are a scholarship or other WMF funded attendee (staff, contractor, board, etc), please wait until you hear from the WMF with your registration and accommodation instructions. If you have any questions about the conference, please email wikimania-info at wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-lPlease spread the word!!!! On behalf of the Wikimania '18 Organizing Team Ellie Young Events Manager, Wikimedia Foundation https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l​ *

-- Ellie Young Events Manager Wikimedia Foundation eyoung@wikimedia.org c. 510 701 8649

---

Wikimania-l mailing listWikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

On 29.05.2018 20:33, praveenp wrote:

I haven't seen any attempt to share the knowledge and wisdom acquired from Wikimania to community through mailing list or wiki. Users including me generally feel that community is being mocked on.

Hi to all, without being too original here, and following praveenp comments - would be good to encourage recipients of WMF scholarship to organize some type of Wikimania follow-up activities back in their groups or chapters.

I do believe that most of them are doing it anyway without any requirements from WMF, but if majority would  do it - we could have something as a ”permanent Wikimania” unfolding globally for a couple of months after the official Wikimania.

regards, /gheorghe

Hi,

As I have said last year, this is not a complaint that I didn't get selected. This is not personal. This is about same persons receiving Wikimania scholarship year after year repeatedly. I am just using familiar user names from a familiar community, who got many repeated scholarships.

Even after I argued that none of these 'permanent scholarship receivers' sharing anything to community, I haven't seen any attempt to share the knowledge and wisdom acquired from Wikimania to community through mailing list or wiki. Users including me generally feel that community is being mocked on.

I tried to keep myself away from local discussion about this, but injustice is so clear. And nobody is ready to discuss it openly, most probably because of the 'incompetency shaming' in almost all replies.

~user:Praveenp

On Tuesday 29 May 2018 11:19 PM, Lodewijk wrote: Given the context of the previous email you sent, I am assuming this is more a complaint that you didn't get selected than that the other two got selected.

Similarly to the previous time you tried to have this discussion - I feel uncomfortable to make this about individuals.

Is there a way to give rejected applicants more feedback on which factors play a main role, so that they can learn from it, especially if there is something they could improve in their application. I would add two sidenotes here though: it should only be provided on request (no need to rub people's noses into something unnecessarily) and it seems only viable at a level that can be easily extracted from the process (high level).

Perhaps someone who knows the scholarship committee's work intimately could comment.

Best, Lodewijk

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:21 AM, praveenp <me.praveen@gmail.com mailto:me.praveen@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Congratulation to all the selection committee who break the tradition[1] of selecting  one of the Malayalam communities two permanent Wikimania attendees, by selecting both of them.

Congratulation to User:Netha Hussain & User:viswaprabha also.

[1] "Granting Scholarship to same persons every year" thread, https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2017-May/008026.html https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2017-May/008026.html

~User:Praveenp

On Tuesday 15 May 2018 11:19 PM, Ellie Young wrote:

All,

Here's an update on various activities pertaining to the upcomingWikimania '18  which is being held July 18-22 in Cape Town, South Africa.

WMF Scholarship Program:  135 people were offered and subsequently accepteda full or partial scholarship to attend.  The awardees are listed by usernames and the list is posted here:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholarshttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholarsSubmissions:  The program committee has just finished its review anddeliberations.  Rejections and acceptance emails  have gone out in the past week.

95% of the accepted submissions are listed at:

https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program

Plenaries and other sessions will be listed soon and a scheduled program  in June.

Registration and accommodation information is now up for everyone at:https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registrationhttps://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registrationhttps://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodationhttps://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/AccommodationIf you are a scholarship or other WMF funded attendee (staff, contractor,board, etc), please wait until you hear from the WMF with your registrationand accommodation instructions.If you have any questions about the conference, please emailwikimania-info at wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-lPlease spread the word!!!!On behalf of the Wikimania '18 Organizing Team

Ellie YoungEvents Manager, Wikimedia Foundationhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l​

Just for the information of all those who read this thread, I did not get selected this year through the normal scholarship filtration process. I happen to be among those who could not attend Wikimania 2017 at Montreal, even after going through all these bashing and grillings and then obtaining a valid scholarship last year, due to the so called 'Canadian visa' problem. So, for me, scholarship to Wikimania 2018 was an automatic fall-in. Please reset your counters. My total Wikimania participation till date: 2012 Washington DC, 2014 London, 2015 Mexico.

Regards, User:Viswaprabha

On 30 May 2018 at 06:19, cs cs@edubkk.org wrote:

I am also concerned about the same people repeatedly receiving scholarships, and this is by no way of complaining that I did not receive one. As I said last year however, I believe it is also inappropriate to inform applicants that they have been placed on a short list. Not only does this raise false hopes, but as many applications are based on the users' intentions to submit a presentation, it incurs a serious waste of volunteers' time.

I also believe that active Wikipedia users who have financed their own participation in the conference multiple times should also be given priority consideration.

I fully understand that the according of scholarships is a complex and difficult task. As a former volunteer scholarship approvals committee member, I think I have some experience in these maters.

Not one single Wikimania has been organised without serious issues which often result in attendees’ negative experience. Perhaps the solution would be to have the entire concept of Wikimania place in the hands of an experienced volunteer task force of former conference organizers, presenters, and attendees who will have learned from previous errors and adminstartive organisational hiccups. Funds should also be made available for face-to-face meetings for the organisation of such an important event.

Having a truly executive Board of Trustees rather than one that simply rubber stamps the way the WMF works, in this and most other areas, may be a step towards addressing these issues.

Kudpung

On 30, May2018, at 01:59, Gheorghe Zugravu zugravu.gheorghe@gmail.com wrote:

On 29.05.2018 20:33, praveenp wrote:

I haven't seen any attempt to share the knowledge and wisdom acquired from Wikimania to community through mailing list or wiki. Users including me generally feel that community is being mocked on.

Hi to all, without being too original here, and following praveenp comments - would be good to encourage recipients of WMF scholarship to organize some type of Wikimania follow-up activities back in their groups or chapters.

I do believe that most of them are doing it anyway without any requirements from WMF, but if majority would do it - we could have something as a ”permanent Wikimania” unfolding globally for a couple of months after the official Wikimania.

regards, /gheorghe

Hi,

As I have said last year, this is not a complaint that I didn't get selected. This is not personal. This is about same persons receiving Wikimania scholarship year after year repeatedly. I am just using familiar user names from a familiar community, who got many repeated scholarships.

Even after I argued that none of these 'permanent scholarship receivers' sharing anything to community, I haven't seen any attempt to share the knowledge and wisdom acquired from Wikimania to community through mailing list or wiki. Users including me generally feel that community is being mocked on.

I tried to keep myself away from local discussion about this, but injustice is so clear. And nobody is ready to discuss it openly, most probably because of the 'incompetency shaming' in almost all replies.

~user:Praveenp

On Tuesday 29 May 2018 11:19 PM, Lodewijk wrote: Given the context of the previous email you sent, I am assuming this is more a complaint that you didn't get selected than that the other two got selected.

Similarly to the previous time you tried to have this discussion - I feel uncomfortable to make this about individuals.

Is there a way to give rejected applicants more feedback on which factors play a main role, so that they can learn from it, especially if there is something they could improve in their application. I would add two sidenotes here though: it should only be provided on request (no need to rub people's noses into something unnecessarily) and it seems only viable at a level that can be easily extracted from the process (high level).

Perhaps someone who knows the scholarship committee's work intimately could comment.

Best, Lodewijk

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:21 AM, praveenp <me.praveen@gmail.com <mailto:me.praveen@gmail.com me.praveen@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Congratulation to all the selection committee who break the tradition[1] of selecting one of the Malayalam communities two permanent Wikimania attendees, by selecting both of them.

Congratulation to User:Netha Hussain & User:viswaprabha also.

[1] "Granting Scholarship to same persons every year" thread, https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2017-May/008026.html https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2017-May/008026.html

~User:Praveenp

On Tuesday 15 May 2018 11:19 PM, Ellie Young wrote:

All,

Here's an update on various activities pertaining to the upcomingWikimania '18 which is being held July 18-22 in Cape Town, South Africa.

WMF Scholarship Program: 135 people were offered and subsequently accepteda full or partial scholarship to attend. The awardees are listed by usernames and the list is posted here:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_ scholarshttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholars Submissions: The program committee has just finished its review anddeliberations. Rejections and acceptance emails have gone out in the past week.

95% of the accepted submissions are listed at:

https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program

Plenaries and other sessions will be listed soon and a scheduled program in June.

Registration and accommodation information is now up for everyone at:https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registrationhttps:// wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registrationhttps:// wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodationhttps:// wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/AccommodationIf you are a scholarship or other WMF funded attendee (staff, contractor,board, etc), please wait until you hear from the WMF with your registrationand accommodation instructions.If you have any questions about the conference, please emailwikimania-info at wikimedia.org<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

...

Please

spread the word!!!!On behalf of the Wikimania '18 Organizing Team

Ellie YoungEvents Manager, Wikimedia Foundationhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l​

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

I think this is the point where we are deviating from the original issue, and where I feel things are getting way too personal. Can we please stay in a general topic and refrain from analyzing who in particular may or may not be getting the long or short end of the stick?

-- Siebrand

Op 30 mei 2018 om 08:42 heeft CS cs@edubkk.org het volgende geschreven:

Visswaprabha,

'2012 Washington DC, 2014 London, 2015 Mexico.'

and for how many of those did you get a scholarship?

Kudpung

...

On 30 May 2018, at 13:28, ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) viswaprabha@gmail.com wrote:

Just for the information of all those who read this thread, I did not get selected this year through the normal scholarship filtration process. I happen to be among those who could not attend Wikimania 2017 at Montreal, even after going through all these bashing and grillings and then obtaining a valid scholarship last year, due to the so called 'Canadian visa' problem. So, for me, scholarship to Wikimania 2018 was an automatic fall-in. Please reset your counters. My total Wikimania participation till date: 2012 Washington DC, 2014 London, 2015 Mexico.

Regards, User:Viswaprabha

...

On 30 May 2018 at 06:19, cs cs@edubkk.org wrote: I am also concerned about the same people repeatedly receiving scholarships, and this is by no way of complaining that I did not receive one. As I said last year however, I believe it is also inappropriate to inform applicants that they have been placed on a short list. Not only does this raise false hopes, but as many applications are based on the users' intentions to submit a presentation, it incurs a serious waste of volunteers' time.

I also believe that active Wikipedia users who have financed their own participation in the conference multiple times should also be given priority consideration.

I fully understand that the according of scholarships is a complex and difficult task. As a former volunteer scholarship approvals committee member, I think I have some experience in these maters.

Not one single Wikimania has been organised without serious issues which often result in attendees’ negative experience. Perhaps the solution would be to have the entire concept of Wikimania place in the hands of an experienced volunteer task force of former conference organizers, presenters, and attendees who will have learned from previous errors and adminstartive organisational hiccups. Funds should also be made available for face-to-face meetings for the organisation of such an important event.

Having a truly executive Board of Trustees rather than one that simply rubber stamps the way the WMF works, in this and most other areas, may be a step towards addressing these issues.

Kudpung

...

On 30, May2018, at 01:59, Gheorghe Zugravu zugravu.gheorghe@gmail.com wrote:

...

On 29.05.2018 20:33, praveenp wrote: I haven't seen any attempt to share the knowledge and wisdom acquired from Wikimania to community through mailing list or wiki. Users including me generally feel that community is being mocked on.

Hi to all, without being too original here, and following praveenp comments - would be good to encourage recipients of WMF scholarship to organize some type of Wikimania follow-up activities back in their groups or chapters.

I do believe that most of them are doing it anyway without any requirements from WMF, but if majority would do it - we could have something as a ”permanent Wikimania” unfolding globally for a couple of months after the official Wikimania.

regards, /gheorghe

...

Hi,

As I have said last year, this is not a complaint that I didn't get selected. This is not personal. This is about same persons receiving Wikimania scholarship year after year repeatedly. I am just using familiar user names from a familiar community, who got many repeated scholarships.

Even after I argued that none of these 'permanent scholarship receivers' sharing anything to community, I haven't seen any attempt to share the knowledge and wisdom acquired from Wikimania to community through mailing list or wiki. Users including me generally feel that community is being mocked on.

I tried to keep myself away from local discussion about this, but injustice is so clear. And nobody is ready to discuss it openly, most probably because of the 'incompetency shaming' in almost all replies.

~user:Praveenp

On Tuesday 29 May 2018 11:19 PM, Lodewijk wrote: Given the context of the previous email you sent, I am assuming this is more a complaint that you didn't get selected than that the other two got selected.

Similarly to the previous time you tried to have this discussion - I feel uncomfortable to make this about individuals.

Is there a way to give rejected applicants more feedback on which factors play a main role, so that they can learn from it, especially if there is something they could improve in their application. I would add two sidenotes here though: it should only be provided on request (no need to rub people's noses into something unnecessarily) and it seems only viable at a level that can be easily extracted from the process (high level).

Perhaps someone who knows the scholarship committee's work intimately could comment.

Best, Lodewijk

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:21 AM, praveenp <me.praveen@gmail.com mailto:me.praveen@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Congratulation to all the selection committee who break the tradition[1] of selecting one of the Malayalam communities two permanent Wikimania attendees, by selecting both of them.

Congratulation to User:Netha Hussain & User:viswaprabha also.

[1] "Granting Scholarship to same persons every year" thread, https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2017-May/008026.html https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2017-May/008026.html

~User:Praveenp

On Tuesday 15 May 2018 11:19 PM, Ellie Young wrote:

All,

Here's an update on various activities pertaining to the upcomingWikimania '18 which is being held July 18-22 in Cape Town, South Africa.

WMF Scholarship Program: 135 people were offered and subsequently accepteda full or partial scholarship to attend. The awardees are listed by usernames and the list is posted here:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholarshttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholarsSubmissions: The program committee has just finished its review anddeliberations. Rejections and acceptance emails have gone out in the past week.

95% of the accepted submissions are listed at:

https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program

Plenaries and other sessions will be listed soon and a scheduled program in June.

Registration and accommodation information is now up for everyone at:https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registrationhttps://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registrationhttps://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodationhttps://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/AccommodationIf you are a scholarship or other WMF funded attendee (staff, contractor,board, etc), please wait until you hear from the WMF with your registrationand accommodation instructions.If you have any questions about the conference, please emailwikimania-info at wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-lPlease spread the word!!!!On behalf of the Wikimania '18 Organizing Team

Ellie YoungEvents Manager, Wikimedia Foundationhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l​

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

---

Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

Is there any other way of investigating these issues without mentioning the names of the scholarship awardees? I don’t think anyone is criticising the awardees themselves - they are obviously grateful at having been selected and we certainly don’t resent their having the opportunity. I am always amused (amazed?) however, at every Wikimania I have attended, at the number of people who stand up when Jimbo asks his regular question: 'Stand up all those who have been to a Wikimania X times?’ Considering the geographical distances between locations, and the personal expense, it surprises me that so many have been many times - or were those the WMF staff?

Kudpung

On 30, May2018, at 14:02, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:

Viswaprabha highlights a reason why some people may be appearing to get Montreal and CapeTown.

Where as Kudpung is highlighting that over time some people seam to get many scholarship opportunities to attend, while others miss out or perpetually end up on the wait list.

I dont think Kudpung is picking on Viswaprabha in any specific way, just enquiring if the three other listed Wikimanias were all scholarships along with capetown.

Personally I've only once got WMF scholarship to washington, once I was asked by the chapter to represent them in london, I have applied for a few others and been unsuccessful,

Yes its unfortunate that some people appear to get more opportunities while others miss out, understanding the mechanics of how & why that happens is an important part of the processes being reviewed and improved.

In some ways such issues need seek personal information because that does inform others. I do wonder how much of the application information is taken in good faith and how much is reviewed, because we know that filling in forms for such activities is skill set that some people have the ability to over promote themselves while others struggle in relating the good work they are doing -- this part is no way intended to reflect on Viswaprabha, I appreciate Viswaprabha took the time to highlight a personal event that is impacting this discussion in a non normal way.

On 30 May 2018 at 14:45, Siebrand Mazeland <siebrand@kitano.nl mailto:siebrand@kitano.nl> wrote: I think this is the point where we are deviating from the original issue, and where I feel things are getting way too personal. Can we please stay in a general topic and refrain from analyzing who in particular may or may not be getting the long or short end of the stick?

-- Siebrand

Op 30 mei 2018 om 08:42 heeft CS <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> het volgende geschreven:

...

Visswaprabha,

'2012 Washington DC, 2014 London, 2015 Mexico.'

and for how many of those did you get a scholarship?

Kudpung

...

On 30 May 2018, at 13:28, ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) <viswaprabha@gmail.com mailto:viswaprabha@gmail.com> wrote:

Just for the information of all those who read this thread, I did not get selected this year through the normal scholarship filtration process. I happen to be among those who could not attend Wikimania 2017 at Montreal, even after going through all these bashing and grillings and then obtaining a valid scholarship last year, due to the so called 'Canadian visa' problem. So, for me, scholarship to Wikimania 2018 was an automatic fall-in. Please reset your counters. My total Wikimania participation till date: 2012 Washington DC, 2014 London, 2015 Mexico.

Regards, User:Viswaprabha

On 30 May 2018 at 06:19, cs <cs@edubkk.org mailto:cs@edubkk.org> wrote: I am also concerned about the same people repeatedly receiving scholarships, and this is by no way of complaining that I did not receive one. As I said last year however, I believe it is also inappropriate to inform applicants that they have been placed on a short list. Not only does this raise false hopes, but as many applications are based on the users' intentions to submit a presentation, it incurs a serious waste of volunteers' time.

I also believe that active Wikipedia users who have financed their own participation in the conference multiple times should also be given priority consideration.

I fully understand that the according of scholarships is a complex and difficult task. As a former volunteer scholarship approvals committee member, I think I have some experience in these maters.

Not one single Wikimania has been organised without serious issues which often result in attendees’ negative experience. Perhaps the solution would be to have the entire concept of Wikimania place in the hands of an experienced volunteer task force of former conference organizers, presenters, and attendees who will have learned from previous errors and adminstartive organisational hiccups. Funds should also be made available for face-to-face meetings for the organisation of such an important event.

Having a truly executive Board of Trustees rather than one that simply rubber stamps the way the WMF works, in this and most other areas, may be a step towards addressing these issues.

Kudpung

...

On 30, May2018, at 01:59, Gheorghe Zugravu <zugravu.gheorghe@gmail.com mailto:zugravu.gheorghe@gmail.com> wrote:

On 29.05.2018 20:33, praveenp wrote:

...

I haven't seen any attempt to share the knowledge and wisdom acquired from Wikimania to community through mailing list or wiki. Users including me generally feel that community is being mocked on.

Hi to all, without being too original here, and following praveenp comments - would be good to encourage recipients of WMF scholarship to organize some type of Wikimania follow-up activities back in their groups or chapters.

I do believe that most of them are doing it anyway without any requirements from WMF, but if majority would do it - we could have something as a ”permanent Wikimania” unfolding globally for a couple of months after the official Wikimania.

regards, /gheorghe

...

Hi,

As I have said last year, this is not a complaint that I didn't get selected. This is not personal. This is about same persons receiving Wikimania scholarship year after year repeatedly. I am just using familiar user names from a familiar community, who got many repeated scholarships.

Even after I argued that none of these 'permanent scholarship receivers' sharing anything to community, I haven't seen any attempt to share the knowledge and wisdom acquired from Wikimania to community through mailing list or wiki. Users including me generally feel that community is being mocked on.

I tried to keep myself away from local discussion about this, but injustice is so clear. And nobody is ready to discuss it openly, most probably because of the 'incompetency shaming' in almost all replies.

~user:Praveenp

On Tuesday 29 May 2018 11:19 PM, Lodewijk wrote: Given the context of the previous email you sent, I am assuming this is more a complaint that you didn't get selected than that the other two got selected.

Similarly to the previous time you tried to have this discussion - I feel uncomfortable to make this about individuals.

Is there a way to give rejected applicants more feedback on which factors play a main role, so that they can learn from it, especially if there is something they could improve in their application. I would add two sidenotes here though: it should only be provided on request (no need to rub people's noses into something unnecessarily) and it seems only viable at a level that can be easily extracted from the process (high level).

Perhaps someone who knows the scholarship committee's work intimately could comment.

Best, Lodewijk

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:21 AM, praveenp <me.praveen@gmail.com mailto:me.praveen@gmail.com <mailto:me.praveen@gmail.com mailto:me.praveen@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi,

Congratulation to all the selection committee who break the tradition[1] of selecting one of the Malayalam communities two permanent Wikimania attendees, by selecting both of them.

Congratulation to User:Netha Hussain & User:viswaprabha also.

[1] "Granting Scholarship to same persons every year" thread, https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2017-May/008026.html https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2017-May/008026.html <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2017-May/008026.html https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2017-May/008026.html>

~User:Praveenp

On Tuesday 15 May 2018 11:19 PM, Ellie Young wrote:

All,

Here's an update on various activities pertaining to the upcomingWikimania '18 which is being held July 18-22 in Cape Town, South Africa.

WMF Scholarship Program: 135 people were offered and subsequently accepteda full or partial scholarship to attend. The awardees are listed by usernames and the list is posted here:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholarshttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholarsSubmissions: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholars%3Chttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholars%3ESubmissions: The program committee has just finished its review anddeliberations. Rejections and acceptance emails have gone out in the past week.

95% of the accepted submissions are listed at:

https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program <https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program>

Plenaries and other sessions will be listed soon and a scheduled program in June.

Registration and accommodation information is now up for everyone at:https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registrationhttps://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registrationhttps://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodationhttps://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/AccommodationIf https://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration%3Chttps://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration%3Ehttps://wikimania2018.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodation%3Chttps://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodation%3EIf you are a scholarship or other WMF funded attendee (staff, contractor,board, etc), please wait until you hear from the WMF with your registrationand accommodation instructions.If you have any questions about the conference, please emailwikimania-info at wikimedia.org http://wikimedia.org/<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>Please spread the word!!!!On behalf of the Wikimania '18 Organizing Team

Ellie YoungEvents Manager, Wikimedia Foundation<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>​

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-- GN. Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com http://gnangarra.redbubble.com/ Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), Never Again: Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8, UWAP, 2017.  Order here https://uwap.uwa.edu.au/products/never-again-reflections-on-environmental-responsibility-after-roe-8.

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Praveen,

This could also be discussed on the Malayalam Wikipedia village pump and/or the mailing list where the community can request the participants with a list of expectations. When a Wikimedian is awarded the scholarship on the basis of their own contribution to the larger movement, they do owe their own community the wisdom they would bring back from Wikimania.

But I personally don’t see this thread a fruitful one. Many from your own community might not be active here. While sharing this suggestion with I’m also thinking in my head that how we could engage with my own community so that they share such a wishlist. We tried to do it in the past but did not receive many comments. Maybe there is a way we can innovate. If we succeed, I will create a Learning Pattern, and share here. :)

Subhashish

On May 30, 2018, at 2:07 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:

cs, 30/05/2018 10:16:

...

Is there any other way of investigating these issues /without/ mentioning the names of the scholarship awardees?

Well, in theory we've been publishing the names of people who got a scholarship for a few years now, so it should be possible to make a complete list of repeat recipients in N years and then talk just about the number rather than names.

I agree that repeat scholarships are a bad way to spend donor money, for the law of diminishing returns. We can disagree on how big the problem is, but we have sufficient evidence that it exists. In the past I've proposed and implemented severe penalties, but I'll clearly admit that I failed to effectively reform the review process.

I personally agree with more draconian solutions which would set very clear expectations. A total ban on a scholarship for those who got one the previous year is a possibility. It would be as fair as re-election limits in democratic competitions.

Federico

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Hi,

As a disclaimer: I have been in multiple roles, including receiving a WMF scholarship (2014, 2017 and 2018), being denied a WMF scholarship, attending Wikimania at my own expense and reviewing Wikimania scholarship applications for a chapter.

From this experience I do not agree with the 'law of diminishing returns' or draconian measures. However, there are several trends:

1) First Wikimania is usually extremely motivating for almost everyone. Yet it is hard for a first-time Wikimania attendee to clearly explain the value of Wikimania for them before attending it. On one hand, these people are very likely to become more involved, start new projects, share new ideas etc. On the other hand, their scholarship applications will be most likely somewhat vague on their plans for Wikimania, and we have to take that into account.

2) Second and following Wikimanias are indeed less likely to bring that much additional motivation. However, there is huge added value as these attendees already know what to expect from and what to look for at Wikimania and in some ways make Wikimania itself more valuable. This includes sharing at Wikimania: participating at round tables, making presentations or posters etc. This also includes learning from Wikimania: asking the questions their community wants to ask, meeting the people who work on the topics they are interested in etc. This is not a diminishing return, but this requires to think of the added value you can bring to Wikimania.

3) For veteran Wikimedians attending a lot of times, Wikimania is also a place to meet people with whom they work online and share experience both ways. For example, we know people want to meet stewards to learn more about their work, and stewards want to meet users to get some insight on their role. This might be a sufficient motivation to attend at own expense if costs are not too prohibitive, but if this is the case (I don't think we have stewards in Sub-Saharan Africa for example) some of them will probably need scholarships. They will bring added value by their experience and role even if they might have attended in previous years.

I don't think there is a simple solution but this definitely deserves a discussion either here or during the conference.

Best regards, Mykola (NickK)

--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "Federico Leva (Nemo)" nemowiki@gmail.com Дата: 30 травня 2018, 10:38:09

cs, 30/05/2018 10:16:

Is there any  other way  of investigating  these issues /without/ mentioning  the names of the scholarship awardees?

Well, in theory we've been publishing the names of people who got a scholarship for a few years now, so it should be possible to make a complete list of repeat recipients in N years and then talk just about the number rather than names.

I agree that repeat scholarships are a bad way to spend donor money, for the law of diminishing returns. We can disagree on how big the problem is, but we have sufficient evidence that it exists. In the past I've proposed and implemented severe penalties, but I'll clearly admit that I failed to effectively reform the review process.

I personally agree with more draconian solutions which would set very clear expectations. A total ban on a scholarship for those who got one the previous year is a possibility. It would be as fair as re-election limits in democratic competitions.

Federico

_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

Mentioning names and making comments close to criticising those who got scholarship repeatedly is distasteful and I have to agree with Dariusz that such comment is unfair to these people. However, people are allowed to show their grievances if they considered themselves unjustly treated. When the same persons are selected for scholarship every year, this leave others whose application gets rejected every year with the impression that their works does not matter and this is not healthy for our movement.

I do think we need a better approach to addressing what others considered a problem.

Regards,

Isaac.

*Disclaimer: **I have been declined a scholarship to Wikimania once and I haven't apply for Wikimania scholarship since 2016. *

On May 30, 2018 5:20 PM, "Dariusz Jemielniak" darekj@alk.edu.pl wrote:

Hi,

Just like Mykola, I attended Wikimania on different budgets. I believe I received a scholarship once, I was also denied once at least.

The problem expressed in this topic, the way I see it, is that some people may be picked from year to year basing on the same reasons (good proposal, region, etc.). The concern expressed by some is that while every year these merits may be true, the system leads to reinforcing the same cabal.

Except, it is my understanding that having previously attended Wikimania on a scholarship is an explicit criterion for lowering one's chances to get another one.

What is being postulated appears to be already reflected in the system. The system, btw, is very far from perfect and I think it is safe to assume that everyone agrees on that. Another issue, however, is whether we can prepare a better system while not spending significantly more money/volunteer time.

I'd suggest looking for concrete solutions and ideas rather than criticizing the outcomes.

Discussing particular people, and if they got sponsored repeatedly, does not sound fair to me - it is guilting them into believing that the fact they were nominated to come is something wrong.

Regarding shortlists - they surely are imperfect for various reasons, but common for such programs, including e.g. Fulbright (a shortlisted grantee may learn a/he is or is not going as late as two months prior to departure to the US).

Best,

DJ "pundit"

PS for clarity - I'm coming to Wikimania on the Board's budget.

On Wed, May 30, 2018, 11:51 Mykola Kozlenko mycola-k@ukr.net wrote:

...

Hi,

As a disclaimer: I have been in multiple roles, including receiving a WMF scholarship (2014, 2017 and 2018), being denied a WMF scholarship, attending Wikimania at my own expense and reviewing Wikimania scholarship applications for a chapter.

From this experience I do not agree with the 'law of diminishing returns' or draconian measures. However, there are several trends:

1. First Wikimania is usually extremely motivating for almost everyone.

Yet it is hard for a first-time Wikimania attendee to clearly explain the value of Wikimania for them before attending it. On one hand, these people are very likely to become more involved, start new projects, share new ideas etc. On the other hand, their scholarship applications will be most likely somewhat vague on their plans for Wikimania, and we have to take that into account.

2. Second and following Wikimanias are indeed less likely to bring that

much additional motivation. However, there is huge added value as these attendees already know what to expect from and what to look for at Wikimania and in some ways make Wikimania itself more valuable. This includes sharing at Wikimania: participating at round tables, making presentations or posters etc. This also includes learning from Wikimania: asking the questions their community wants to ask, meeting the people who work on the topics they are interested in etc. This is not a diminishing return, but this requires to think of the added value you can bring to Wikimania.

3. For veteran Wikimedians attending a lot of times, Wikimania is also a

place to meet people with whom they work online and share experience both ways. For example, we know people want to meet stewards to learn more about their work, and stewards want to meet users to get some insight on their role. This might be a sufficient motivation to attend at own expense if costs are not too prohibitive, but if this is the case (I don't think we have stewards in Sub-Saharan Africa for example) some of them will probably need scholarships. They will bring added value by their experience and role even if they might have attended in previous years.

I don't think there is a simple solution but this definitely deserves a discussion either here or during the conference.

Best regards, Mykola (NickK)

--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "Federico Leva (Nemo)" nemowiki@gmail.com Дата: 30 травня 2018, 10:38:09

cs, 30/05/2018 10:16:

...

Is there any other way of investigating these issues /without/ mentioning the names of the scholarship awardees?

Well, in theory we've been publishing the names of people who got a scholarship for a few years now, so it should be possible to make a complete list of repeat recipients in N years and then talk just about the number rather than names.

I agree that repeat scholarships are a bad way to spend donor money, for the law of diminishing returns. We can disagree on how big the problem is, but we have sufficient evidence that it exists. In the past I've proposed and implemented severe penalties, but I'll clearly admit that I failed to effectively reform the review process.

I personally agree with more draconian solutions which would set very clear expectations. A total ban on a scholarship for those who got one the previous year is a possibility. It would be as fair as re-election limits in democratic competitions.

Federico

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Let's imagine a totally fair, but not very good process: Scholarships get allocated completely at random. Some people would keep getting allocated scholarships, entirely randomly.

Therefore, the observation that some people get scholarships several years in a row is not strong evidence that the selection process is somehow biased towards a select few...

(I mean, it is biased, towards people mainly active in smaller language projects and from the Global South - that's quite deliberate - and then it's biased towards Germans, because WMDE offers dozens of scholarships for Germans outside of the WMF scheme. But those are separate issues....)

Chris

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Vira Motorko vira.motorko@gmail.com wrote:

Hi all, I'd like to add a few words. Applicants tend to forget that same people are likely to be selected if same people are applying. I do not think that it is a first job of scholarship committee to check that every year there are new people. If certain community has a problem that Wikimedians go to Wikimania but fail to report back to the community and do not bring back new knowledge, then it should be discussed within the community. I do believe that local community can find a way to encourage or discourage people to apply for a scholarship. If there is trust in the community, discussions within it will bring ease. For example, different applicants can gather and compare their applications, and decide for themselves why scholarship committee liked this one better than that one. And write better application next time. Talk to each other, people.

Best regards, user:Ата, applied but did not receive scholarship in 2012, 2013, and 2014; received scholarship in 2015 and 2016; haven't apply since; gave advice to several other people with their applications

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Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old faces year in, year out.

Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ +44 (0) 7507 536 971 Skype: harry_j_mitchell

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:50 PM, Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com wrote:

Let's imagine a totally fair, but not very good process: Scholarships get allocated completely at random. Some people would keep getting allocated scholarships, entirely randomly.

Therefore, the observation that some people get scholarships several years in a row is not strong evidence that the selection process is somehow biased towards a select few...

(I mean, it is biased, towards people mainly active in smaller language projects and from the Global South - that's quite deliberate

• and then it's biased towards Germans, because WMDE offers dozens of

scholarships for Germans outside of the WMF scheme. But those are separate issues....)

Chris

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:25 PM, Vira Motorko vira.motorko@gmail.com wrote:

...

Hi all, I'd like to add a few words. Applicants tend to forget that same people are likely to be selected if

same

...

people are applying. I do not think that it is a first job of scholarship committee to check

that

...

every year there are new people. If certain community has a problem that Wikimedians go to Wikimania but fail to report back to the community and

do

...

not bring back new knowledge, then it should be discussed within the community. I do believe that local community can find a way to encourage

or

...

discourage people to apply for a scholarship. If there is trust in the community, discussions within it will bring

ease.

...

For example, different applicants can gather and compare their

applications,

...

and decide for themselves why scholarship committee liked this one better than that one. And write better application next time. Talk to each

other,

...

people.

Best regards, user:Ата, applied but did not receive scholarship in 2012, 2013, and 2014; received scholarship in 2015 and 2016; haven't apply since; gave advice to several other people with their applications

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I have attended several Wikimanias. I would have thought that with the Wikipedias being voluntary contributed and managed projects, that the conference shoud have a sharp focus on attendance and presentations by the communities. However, this is not the case. Presentation time is, IMO, excessively allocated to various speakers from the salaried staff. This has been brought up on several occasions. In some instances, some presentations have had almost duplicate content. Many Foundations take on a promotional aspect of the WMF’s work. The credit for the entire movement should go to the community volunteers.

Kudpung

On 01, Jun2018, at 08:31, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:

Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system is a perennial point of friction.

Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF strategic plan and with SMART goals.

Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com> wrote: Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old faces year in, year out.

Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ http://enwp.org/User:HJ +44 (0) 7507 536 971 Skype: harry_j_mitchell

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I mentioned about Esino Lario being top heavy on WMF presentations. Not everyone is likely to write in and make formal complaints on the lines they discussed personally with each other during the Wikimania conferences. Furthermore, the configuration and timing of the many locations in Esino Lario for the presentations, meetings, and socialising (a very important aspect), was not conducive to much interaction.I assume this has been addressed in the selection of venues for later conferences. The ’talking' is as important as the ‘listening’ - after all, the private and periferal discussions are all about Wikipedia/Wikimedia and are actually what in my opinion gets most achieved. It is disappointing when meeting WMF employees during breaks and socialising opportunities to be simply told ‘Come to my presentation’, or ‘leave a message on my talk page'

Nobody is suggesting that scholarships should be accorded on a ‘merit’ basis - as far as I understand, the allocation of scholarships is not an ‘award' system. Nobody is suggesting that Wikimania 'were to be only community presentations.’ Nobody is suggesting that Wikimania scholarships should only be accorded to those wishing to make presentations. I have suggested however, that there should be coordination between the scholarship and the program selection systems.

I have only attended four Wikimanias, which were all very different, but I belive my own observations and impressions are not without merit. Not everybody is inclined to post to this mailiing list.

Kudpung

On 06, Jul2018, at 01:45, C. Scott Ananian cananian@wikimedia.org wrote:

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 9:31 PM, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com mailto:wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote: Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a one time event or if that's ongoing.

As a WMF presenter, I'd like to respond briefly. First: the WMF has an internal budget as well, and its decisions about who goes/does not go to Wikimania have their own troubles/nuances/benefits, etc.

In my own opinion, the WMF is employed to do development work for the community. I feel that tipping the balance too much toward either WMF or community presentations do both a disservice. If Wikimania were to be only community presentations, surely the complaint would arise that WMF was absent, does not know about all the good work the community is doing, isn't adequately supporting them with its work, etc, and conversely WMF employees would feel the community is left ignorant of the tools they are building on the communities' behalf. And obviously if Wikimania were only WMF presentations those employed to serve the community would be doing all our time talking when we should be listening! A balance is needed (and we can have a great debate on what the right balance should be; I didn't hear any complaints from participants about the balance at Esino Lario, for example).

Wikimania is a great opportunity for communication between different facets of our movement, both planned and unplanned. My own experience from leading problem-solving teams in various capacities is that the unplanned interactions are actually the most important. Generally, if you *know already* that X is working on Y which is of interest to you, then you can with more-or-less difficulty find X to exchange ideas about Y. But how do you find people when you have no idea who they are or that they are working on something of interest! That's the opportunity you get by gathering all sorts of different Wikimedians in one place, and having them eat and socialize together.

As such, my personal opinion is that purely "merit-based" participant selection --- both of community members and internally at WMF (usually based on having an accepted presentation) --- runs the danger of not including enough folks who are there (a) to listen, not talk, (b) who would be inspired by things they did not expect and could not have predicted on an application.

If I were to make this a concrete suggestion, I'd suggest including some number of "perfectly fair" random scholarships/participant selections, so that even non-presenting WMF employees and first-time community representatives get a chance to listen to each other, learn unexpected things, and be inspired. --scott

ps. Having a "report back" expectation also seems fine and useful.

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Hi, WMUA board member here. We usually award three scholarships per year, we run the program since 2016.

Out of 9 people having received a scholarship, we had 1 board member and 0 staff members. We do not have any priority to board members, they have to apply in the same way as others. At least one applicant each year attended Wikimania for the first time.

I am not sure if this is a perfect solution but it is feasible. The fact that all our board members are active Wikimedians themselves probably helps to make it feasible.

Best regards Mykola (NickK) Wikimedia Ukraine

--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "Luca Martinelli" martinelliluca@gmail.com Дата: 1 червня 2018, 15:30:10

2018-05-31 21:31 GMT+02:00 Harry Mitchell hjmwiki@gmail.com:

Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old faces year in, year out.

Former WM-IT Board member here. Actually, Wikimedia Italia does host a scholarship programme since 2011, open to both WM-IT associates and Italian wikimedians. Depending on the destination, we always granted every year 6 to 8 scholarships (plus up to 2 places for Board members, and depending on staff availability, up to 2 places for them). In 2016, we actually handed out 10 full scholarships and 10 partial scholarships ('cause travel expenses were more easy to cover).

From my experience, it's difficult to fill up the ranks sometimes with

new people. Our internal rules actually give preference to people who never attended Wikimania, as well as to women - still, we were "forced" to award scholarships to the same people sometimes, because we were lacking other eligible people. In particular, most of the most active Italian wikipedians DO NOT apply for a WM-IT scholarship (or WMF, AFAIK).

This is yet another variable we're not considering enough, I think: if new people do not apply, it's harder to award them a scholarship.

L.

_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

No oversight, Nathan, and please don’t exaggerate. FWIW there is already an in-depth article in progress about Wikimania that was begun before that very short ‘In the news’ mention. It’s being written by another editor who first mentioned the mailing list and will be published in this month’s issue. Please remember that this is an open mailing list an any one is free to report on it or mention it anywhere whatever the scope. The newsroom discussions for The Signpost are equally transparent.

Thatr said, yes, I am indeed highly critical of some aspects of the organisation of each year’s conference.

Kudpung

On 03, Jul2018, at 05:40, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:

The complaints in this thread have been reported in the Signpost, although without any of the countering comments. In what I imagine is an oversight, the co-author of the report in the Signpost (Kudpung) did not mention that he raised many of the complaints here himself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2018-06-29/News_a... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2018-06-29/News_and_notes

~Nathan

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 6:25 PM Mykola Kozlenko <mycola-k@ukr.net mailto:mycola-k@ukr.net> wrote: Hi,

WMUA board member here. We usually award three scholarships per year, we run the program since 2016.

Out of 9 people having received a scholarship, we had 1 board member and 0 staff members. We do not have any priority to board members, they have to apply in the same way as others. At least one applicant each year attended Wikimania for the first time.

I am not sure if this is a perfect solution but it is feasible. The fact that all our board members are active Wikimedians themselves probably helps to make it feasible.

Best regards Mykola (NickK) Wikimedia Ukraine

--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "Luca Martinelli" <martinelliluca@gmail.com mailto:martinelliluca@gmail.com> Дата: 1 червня 2018, 15:30:10

2018-05-31 21:31 GMT+02:00 Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>:

...

Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old faces year in, year out.

Former WM-IT Board member here. Actually, Wikimedia Italia does host a scholarship programme since 2011, open to both WM-IT associates and Italian wikimedians. Depending on the destination, we always granted every year 6 to 8 scholarships (plus up to 2 places for Board members, and depending on staff availability, up to 2 places for them). In 2016, we actually handed out 10 full scholarships and 10 partial scholarships ('cause travel expenses were more easy to cover).

From my experience, it's difficult to fill up the ranks sometimes with new people. Our internal rules actually give preference to people who never attended Wikimania, as well as to women - still, we were "forced" to award scholarships to the same people sometimes, because we were lacking other eligible people. In particular, most of the most active Italian wikipedians DO NOT apply for a WM-IT scholarship (or WMF, AFAIK).

This is yet another variable we're not considering enough, I think: if new people do not apply, it's harder to award them a scholarship.

L.

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I would like to have some comments on the issue, first going to wikimania is not of reward system for editing ( though to some extent it motivates a lot of people)

Second, though many people get repeated scholarship, scholarships committees are being changed almost every year, if different people are choosing same people every year this definitely means these people are offering a lot, way beyond editing wiki project.

In many countries we have core people are doing the chore and uphill battle, these are people mostly getting repeated scholarships, I suggest anyone who objects these issue to serve scholarships committee and pretty you will be shocked to see you also chose very same people.

Every year we see new faces, i do trust the process.

Mardetanha

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 3:50 PM praveenp me.praveen@gmail.com wrote:

Applicants tend to forget that same people are likely to be selected if same people are applying.

I don't remember how many times I applied for scholarship, but I am sure that I applied regularly since users started seriously doubting scholarship granting process. In the year 2015 (I think) some users thought, we were needed a more serious approach for scholarship application and started helping each other. I received a compiled file with answers specifically for me for scholarship form, in-case I would apply. I've used those answers as a template for my application since 2015, without much tweaking, because it was better.

In 2015, I passed to Phase 2. Once the scholarship receiver's list was published, I shared some doubts in Wikimania mailing list.

In 2016, failed in Phase 1, totally against phase 1 criteria. My queries to find whether that happened as a repercussion for questioning the process in 2015 in public mailing list didn't get any answers.

In 2017, Passed to Phase2.

This year I didn;t apply for the scholarship. Partially because I was immediately not able to find my template file, and partially because there was no reason to spent some 30 minutes or more for just substantiate an already proven point (atleast to us).

This year, I didn't participated any related discussion. I don't know how many were applied, but it is safe to assume there were more users applied.

Again I am using my username as an example. I am not in search of scholarship. Even in local meet-ups, I attended only once (more than 10 years ago).

~user:Praveenp

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