hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
rupert.
The only recourse you have is to apply again, and it may be too late to do that now that we're 18 days from the conference.
James
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
rupert.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
would it be possible that you call the embassy what is going on, to have something like a "second opinion"? you wrote the letter of invitation, and have some right to know what happened?
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:51 AM, James Hare messedrocker@gmail.com wrote:
The only recourse you have is to apply again, and it may be too late to do that now that we're 18 days from the conference.
James
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
rupert.
No.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 24, 2012, at 1:55 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
would it be possible that you call the embassy what is going on, to have something like a "second opinion"? you wrote the letter of invitation, and have some right to know what happened?
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:51 AM, James Hare messedrocker@gmail.com wrote:
The only recourse you have is to apply again, and it may be too late to do that now that we're 18 days from the conference.
James
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
rupert.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I think what James means to say is that the 2012 Wikimania team has no special right to know what's going on with visa applications. I'm not sure what support they have set up for failed applicants.
In my experience, going through the US Embassy for a visa is expensive and time-consuming if you're not from a country with close relations with the US. The only recourse is to apply again and hope that you meet the requirements. It was difficult (and expensive) enough getting visas sorted in London; I can't imagine that the Ghanan embassy is less strict about it or any cheaper.
I'm not sure what support or advice the Wikimania team can offer, although they have the State Department's E-Diplomacy office as an official partner, so they might have some connections there. That would be up to them, though.
Richard Symonds
On 24 June 2012 18:58, James Hare messedrocker@gmail.com wrote:
No.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 24, 2012, at 1:55 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
would it be possible that you call the embassy what is going on, to have something like a "second opinion"? you wrote the letter of invitation, and have some right to know what happened?
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:51 AM, James Hare messedrocker@gmail.com
wrote:
The only recourse you have is to apply again, and it may be too late to do that now that we're 18 days from the conference.
James
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
rupert.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
And I have indeed heard from the horse's mouth that there is nothing anyone can do to intervene with an ongoing visa application. Not even within the State Department. The only recourse is to apply again, as unfortunate as that is.
What I recommend for everyone is that when applying for a nonimmigrant visa, be sure to demonstrate every possible reason why you only want to come to the U.S. *temporarily* and then return to your life back home. They feel more confident letting you into the country if they know that you have firm ties to your country such as career, family, property/lease, etc. that you would be leaving behind to try to live in the U.S. permanently. And, much to my surprise, it's not enough to explain that your entire trip is paid for, as none of us actually have the legal power to force you to go home. It is a bizarre and unfriendly system.
James
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
I think what James means to say is that the 2012 Wikimania team has no special right to know what's going on with visa applications. I'm not sure what support they have set up for failed applicants.
In my experience, going through the US Embassy for a visa is expensive and time-consuming if you're not from a country with close relations with the US. The only recourse is to apply again and hope that you meet the requirements. It was difficult (and expensive) enough getting visas sorted in London; I can't imagine that the Ghanan embassy is less strict about it or any cheaper.
I'm not sure what support or advice the Wikimania team can offer, although they have the State Department's E-Diplomacy office as an official partner, so they might have some connections there. That would be up to them, though.
Richard Symonds
On 24 June 2012 18:58, James Hare messedrocker@gmail.com wrote:
No.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 24, 2012, at 1:55 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
would it be possible that you call the embassy what is going on, to have something like a "second opinion"? you wrote the letter of invitation, and have some right to know what happened?
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:51 AM, James Hare messedrocker@gmail.com wrote:
The only recourse you have is to apply again, and it may be too late to do that now that we're 18 days from the conference.
James
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
rupert.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive: 1. get it to the embassies beforehand e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy 2. have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with the embassy 3. have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood that single voyagers do not have the experience, and wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close to the start.
maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised - especially visa and hotel rates ;)
my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses. you can even visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and helpful.
rupert.
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
I think what James means to say is that the 2012 Wikimania team has no special right to know what's going on with visa applications. I'm not sure what support they have set up for failed applicants.
In my experience, going through the US Embassy for a visa is expensive and time-consuming if you're not from a country with close relations with the US. The only recourse is to apply again and hope that you meet the requirements. It was difficult (and expensive) enough getting visas sorted in London; I can't imagine that the Ghanan embassy is less strict about it or any cheaper.
I'm not sure what support or advice the Wikimania team can offer, although they have the State Department's E-Diplomacy office as an official partner, so they might have some connections there. That would be up to them, though.
Richard Symonds
On 24 June 2012 18:58, James Hare messedrocker@gmail.com wrote:
No.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 24, 2012, at 1:55 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
would it be possible that you call the embassy what is going on, to have something like a "second opinion"? you wrote the letter of invitation, and have some right to know what happened?
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:51 AM, James Hare messedrocker@gmail.com wrote:
The only recourse you have is to apply again, and it may be too late to do that now that we're 18 days from the conference.
James
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
rupert.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 24 June 2012 20:15, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive:
- get it to the embassies beforehand
e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy 2. have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with the embassy 3. have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood that single voyagers do not have the experience, and wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close to the start.
maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised - especially visa and hotel rates ;)
my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses. you can even visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and helpful.
If the embassy says "no", then the answer is "no". There isn't really anything anyone can do about it. If the embassy gave a reason for the rejection, then fix it and try again. If they didn't (and won't give a reason when contacted), then there's really nothing you can do.
The organisers sent letters of invitation. That's really all they can do, since the visa is issued by the embassy to the individual and the Wikimania team aren't a party to any of that. There also isn't much the Wikimania team can do about any of the common reasons for a visa being rejected. They can confirm that the event is really happening and that the person really has said they plan to go to it (that's what the letter of invitation is for), but they can't do anything to help prove you're not going to do anything illegal while in the country or that you're going to go home afterwards. They have no control over those things and, in the majority of cases, they don't know the individual well enough to vouch for them (if such a vouching would actually help, which I'm not sure it would). It is up to the applicant to convince the embassy of those things because the applicant is the only person that can.
Am 24.06.2012 21:41 schrieb "Thomas Dalton" thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
On 24 June 2012 20:15, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive:
- get it to the embassies beforehand e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy
- have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with the embassy
- have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood that single voyagers do not have the experience, and wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close to the start.
maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised - especially visa and hotel rates ;)
my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses. you can even visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and helpful.
If the embassy says "no", then the answer is "no". There isn't really anything anyone can do about it. If the embassy gave a reason for the rejection, then fix it and try again. If they didn't (and won't give a reason when contacted), then there's really nothing you can do.
The organisers sent letters of invitation. That's really all they can do, since the visa is issued by the embassy to the individual and the Wikimania team aren't a party to any of that. There also isn't much the Wikimania team can do about any of the common reasons for a visa being rejected. They can confirm that the event is really happening and that the person really has said they plan to go to it (that's what the letter of invitation is for), but they can't do anything to help prove you're not going to do anything illegal while in the country or that you're going to go home afterwards. They have no control over those things and, in the majority of cases, they don't know the individual well enough to vouch for them (if such a vouching would actually help, which I'm not sure it would). It is up to the applicant to convince the embassy of those things because the applicant is the only person that
A very good comment. To show that the organizers want the person to go there is key. An inexperienced 22 year old, who has at least some computer education, never abroad, no special family ties is the perfect candidate to have difficulties to argue. Its the perfect candidate not to return at the same time he is the prototypical wikimedian.
We all agree that people from countries where there is not yet an established community are desired to get included, so my wish would be to find better means of support so such a person does not get blocked for visa issues.
The big difference between some conference and wikimedia conferences is the community who is able to check this persons contribution and as well putting up a social pressure that a supported person goes back. But some officer in an embassy in a country without wikimedia community might underestimate this and, in doubt, refuse the visa. Imo it is essential to directly talk to the embassy.
Rupert.
Could you tell us the detail in your visa interview (what the officer asked and how you replied), it maybe help we analyse the reason why you was rejected and give you some advises in your next application. Besides that, you really have to apply for it AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, because there's no much time! If you had applied it earlier, there would be more time to deal with the rejection.
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:35 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.comwrote:
Am 24.06.2012 21:41 schrieb "Thomas Dalton" thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
On 24 June 2012 20:15, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive:
- get it to the embassies beforehand e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy
- have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with the embassy
- have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood that single voyagers do not have the experience, and wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close to the start.
maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised - especially visa and hotel rates ;)
my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses. you can even visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and helpful.
If the embassy says "no", then the answer is "no". There isn't really anything anyone can do about it. If the embassy gave a reason for the rejection, then fix it and try again. If they didn't (and won't give a reason when contacted), then there's really nothing you can do.
The organisers sent letters of invitation. That's really all they can do, since the visa is issued by the embassy to the individual and the Wikimania team aren't a party to any of that. There also isn't much the Wikimania team can do about any of the common reasons for a visa being rejected. They can confirm that the event is really happening and that the person really has said they plan to go to it (that's what the letter of invitation is for), but they can't do anything to help prove you're not going to do anything illegal while in the country or that you're going to go home afterwards. They have no control over those things and, in the majority of cases, they don't know the individual well enough to vouch for them (if such a vouching would actually help, which I'm not sure it would). It is up to the applicant to convince the embassy of those things because the applicant is the only person that
A very good comment. To show that the organizers want the person to go there is key. An inexperienced 22 year old, who has at least some computer education, never abroad, no special family ties is the perfect candidate to have difficulties to argue. Its the perfect candidate not to return at the same time he is the prototypical wikimedian.
We all agree that people from countries where there is not yet an established community are desired to get included, so my wish would be to find better means of support so such a person does not get blocked for visa issues.
The big difference between some conference and wikimedia conferences is the community who is able to check this persons contribution and as well putting up a social pressure that a supported person goes back. But some officer in an embassy in a country without wikimedia community might underestimate this and, in doubt, refuse the visa. Imo it is essential to directly talk to the embassy.
Rupert.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
No, for crying out loud don't do that! This list is public, which means any man and his dog can read what you've written if he puts the right search terms into Google. Posting details of what was asked in a private interview and how those questions were responded to is not appropriate on a public list.
James has said that there is nothing more the organisers can do because the final decision rests with the embassy, so asking for him to intervene isn't likely to be productive, because he can't.
I sympathise, but unfortunately the only recourse is to apply again, and follow the advice you've been given about proving your ties to your home country and giving them reasons why you would want to return home and not stay in the United States illegally after Wikimania.
It's a frustrating inevitability when organising an international conference that, no matter where you hold it, there will always be at least a few countries from which people will have difficulty with visas. The amount that the organisers can do to help may vary from country to country, but there will always be a limit. ---- Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ
Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
________________________________ From: Shujen Chang i@blue.cat To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, 25 June 2012, 9:38 Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] visa denied ... what to do?
Could you tell us the detail in your visa interview (what the officer asked and how you replied), it maybe help we analyse the reason why you was rejected and give you some advises in your next application. Besides that, you really have to apply for it AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, because there's no much time! If you had applied it earlier, there would be more time to deal with the rejection.
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:35 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
Am 24.06.2012 21:41 schrieb "Thomas Dalton" thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
On 24 June 2012 20:15, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive:
- get it to the embassies beforehand
e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy 2. have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with the embassy 3. have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood that single voyagers do not have the experience, and wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close to the start.
maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised - especially visa and hotel rates ;)
my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses. you can even visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and helpful.
If the embassy says "no", then the answer is "no". There isn't really anything anyone can do about it. If the embassy gave a reason for the rejection, then fix it and try again. If they didn't (and won't give a reason when contacted), then there's really nothing you can do.
The organisers sent letters of invitation. That's really all they can do, since the visa is issued by the embassy to the individual and the Wikimania team aren't a party to any of that. There also isn't much the Wikimania team can do about any of the common reasons for a visa being rejected. They can confirm that the event is really happening and that the person really has said they plan to go to it (that's what the letter of invitation is for), but they can't do anything to help prove you're not going to do anything illegal while in the country or that you're going to go home afterwards. They have no control over those things and, in the majority of cases, they don't know the individual well enough to vouch for them (if such a vouching would actually help, which I'm not sure it would). It is up to the applicant to convince the embassy of those things because the applicant is the only person that
A very good comment. To show that the organizers want the person to go there is key. An inexperienced 22 year old, who has at least some computer education, never abroad, no special family ties is the perfect candidate to have difficulties to argue. Its the perfect candidate not to return at the same time he is the prototypical wikimedian. We all agree that people from countries where there is not yet an established community are desired to get included, so my wish would be to find better means of support so such a person does not get blocked for visa issues. The big difference between some conference and wikimedia conferences is the community who is able to check this persons contribution and as well putting up a social pressure that a supported person goes back. But some officer in an embassy in a country without wikimedia community might underestimate this and, in doubt, refuse the visa. Imo it is essential to directly talk to the embassy.Rupert. _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I guess it's also a matter of how formal or informal the working relations inside a country's ministry of foreign affairs are. Last year for Wikimania in Haifa we ended up forming direct, personal and often rather informal relations with officials both in the consular section of the ministry HQ in Jerusalem and in consulates abroad, and this way managed to appeal or push forward visa issuance problems.
But this is really an organizational/cultural matter and maybe this is a total faux-pas in the American State Department.
Harel Cain Wikimania 2011 team
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 10:35 AM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.comwrote:
Am 24.06.2012 21:41 schrieb "Thomas Dalton" thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
On 24 June 2012 20:15, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive:
- get it to the embassies beforehand e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy
- have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with the embassy
- have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood that single voyagers do not have the experience, and wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close to the start.
maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised - especially visa and hotel rates ;)
my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses. you can even visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and helpful.
If the embassy says "no", then the answer is "no". There isn't really anything anyone can do about it. If the embassy gave a reason for the rejection, then fix it and try again. If they didn't (and won't give a reason when contacted), then there's really nothing you can do.
The organisers sent letters of invitation. That's really all they can do, since the visa is issued by the embassy to the individual and the Wikimania team aren't a party to any of that. There also isn't much the Wikimania team can do about any of the common reasons for a visa being rejected. They can confirm that the event is really happening and that the person really has said they plan to go to it (that's what the letter of invitation is for), but they can't do anything to help prove you're not going to do anything illegal while in the country or that you're going to go home afterwards. They have no control over those things and, in the majority of cases, they don't know the individual well enough to vouch for them (if such a vouching would actually help, which I'm not sure it would). It is up to the applicant to convince the embassy of those things because the applicant is the only person that
A very good comment. To show that the organizers want the person to go there is key. An inexperienced 22 year old, who has at least some computer education, never abroad, no special family ties is the perfect candidate to have difficulties to argue. Its the perfect candidate not to return at the same time he is the prototypical wikimedian.
We all agree that people from countries where there is not yet an established community are desired to get included, so my wish would be to find better means of support so such a person does not get blocked for visa issues.
The big difference between some conference and wikimedia conferences is the community who is able to check this persons contribution and as well putting up a social pressure that a supported person goes back. But some officer in an embassy in a country without wikimedia community might underestimate this and, in doubt, refuse the visa. Imo it is essential to directly talk to the embassy.
Rupert.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 6:19 AM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.comwrote:
hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
Not a lot. Embassy are at their discretion to reject anyone they want. Depending on the country, they do usually cite a reason, or hand some rejection letter with an abstract reasoning. There used to be a process to challenge that, but it differs from country to country and is usually quite lengthy, and legal.
Re-application too, might not change much. Unless, the exact reason for the rejection are addressed, perhaps more documents, or support provided by sponsors. But at this stage, it might be too late.
Regards Theo
Can you tell us what the Embassy indicated on denying?
*~Orsolya*
2012/6/24 rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com
hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
rupert.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Hello Rupert,
the experience is that if an ambassy denies a visa (most probably without any reason), there is nothing to do with it.
Greetings Ting
On 24.06.2012 02:49, wrote rupert THURNER:
hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
rupert.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Hello!
I was also *denied* the US Visa by the consular here in Kenya. As far as I understand, the embassy usually has some statistics of youths visiting the US and whether they usually return after their purported mission in the US is over.
Sadly, most unemployed vicenarians who request for conference Visas from Kenya usually end up as illegal immigrants in the US. So for my case I would say that I suffered due to the crime committed by others who went to the US before me. I provided the prerequisite documents as is required of me but that wouldn't change the decision of the consular officer.
Nonetheless, am happy that three Wikimedians from Kenya secured their Visas and they will be at Wikimania2012.
Hopefully, I will be in the next Wikimania.
Enjoy the conference and I would do my best to follow up on talks I was interested in attending on Youtube and the documentations wherever they will be on-line.
To the attendees, have a fruitful conference.
Cheers Stephen.
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Ting Chen wing.philopp@gmx.de wrote:
Hello Rupert,
the experience is that if an ambassy denies a visa (most probably without any reason), there is nothing to do with it.
Greetings Ting
On 24.06.2012 02:49, wrote rupert THURNER:
hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
rupert.
______________________________**_________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimania-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- Ting
Ting's Blog: http://wingphilopp.blogspot.**com/http://wingphilopp.blogspot.com/
______________________________**_________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimania-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Hello!
I wonder if there is a record somewhere that lists the prospective attendees who didn’t attend Wikimania since they were denied Visa or on any other grounds. Such a record would help us decide on future Wikimania hosts with regards to easy of Visa acquaintance.
Al beit am happy that there shall be other Wikimedians from Kenya who will be at Wikimania 2012.
It is sad that the quality of the conference would be affected in the negative:(
My two cents.
regards, Stephen On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Stephen Wanjau stevewanjau@wikimedia.or.kewrote:
Hello!
I was also *denied* the US Visa by the consular here in Kenya. As far as I understand, the embassy usually has some statistics of youths visiting the US and whether they usually return after their purported mission in the US is over.
Sadly, most unemployed vicenarians who request for conference Visas from Kenya usually end up as illegal immigrants in the US. So for my case I would say that I suffered due to the crime committed by others who went to the US before me. I provided the prerequisite documents as is required of me but that wouldn't change the decision of the consular officer.
Nonetheless, am happy that three Wikimedians from Kenya secured their Visas and they will be at Wikimania2012.
Hopefully, I will be in the next Wikimania.
Enjoy the conference and I would do my best to follow up on talks I was interested in attending on Youtube and the documentations wherever they will be on-line.
To the attendees, have a fruitful conference.
Cheers Stephen.
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Ting Chen wing.philopp@gmx.de wrote:
Hello Rupert,
the experience is that if an ambassy denies a visa (most probably without any reason), there is nothing to do with it.
Greetings Ting
On 24.06.2012 02:49, wrote rupert THURNER:
hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
rupert.
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Stephen Wanjau, 04/07/2012 19:01:
I wonder if there is a record somewhere that lists the prospective attendees who didn’t attend Wikimania since they were denied Visa or on any other grounds. Such a record would help us decide on future Wikimania hosts with regards to easy of Visa acquaintance.
This is not needed. Visa problems were very well known when the decision has been made.
Nemo
As a response to this thread and a few others, I've created this page on the WM2012 wiki: http://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Visa_rejections ...in the hope that information gathered there will help future Wikimania organizers assists participants to get visas and clear the immigration process.
Deryck
On 4 July 2012 18:23, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
Stephen Wanjau, 04/07/2012 19:01:
I wonder if there is a record somewhere that lists the prospective
attendees who didn’t attend Wikimania since they were denied Visa or on any other grounds. Such a record would help us decide on future Wikimania hosts with regards to easy of Visa acquaintance.
This is not needed. Visa problems were very well known when the decision has been made.
Nemo
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Is there a good reason why there is still no "Wikimania coordinator" on staff?
I remember bringing this up with James Owen about an year and a half ago. The staff is almost twice as large as that time. Wikimania is by far, the single largest event that happens within this world, and yet there is not a single dedicated staff personnel? I don't think not being able to afford a staff position for this is a credible excuse anymore.
An event-organizer from within US/EU, with experience in organizing international conferences, can make this process a lot easier. Organization like WMF, Mozilla for example, have several event organizers, and Visa coordinators on staff or on part-time basis for these issues.
I see more wisdom in that thought now, than before.
Regards Theo
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com wrote:
As a response to this thread and a few others, I've created this page on the WM2012 wiki: http://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Visa_rejections ...in the hope that information gathered there will help future Wikimania organizers assists participants to get visas and clear the immigration process.
Deryck
On 4 July 2012 18:23, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
Stephen Wanjau, 04/07/2012 19:01:
I wonder if there is a record somewhere that lists the prospective
attendees who didn’t attend Wikimania since they were denied Visa or on any other grounds. Such a record would help us decide on future Wikimania hosts with regards to easy of Visa acquaintance.
This is not needed. Visa problems were very well known when the decision has been made.
Nemo
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I suspect that there may be pushback from the community about it being "taken over" by the WMF, if it were run by staff. There's also the issue with other countries - if we hold Wikimania in London, the WMF would not really be able to help, as they'd have no contacts and would be running the whole event at a year's notice, which isn't very long at all in conference terms.
The UK chapter has an events organiser who handled all our scholarships this year. People had their hotels, hostels, and flights booked for them, and she sent out the details to everyone. Having a WMF person in charge of some of the process would be very useful, but having the WMF run the entire event may not be an ideal solution.
Personally, I'd like to see a core WMF events team who help all major events (Wikimania-sized), but liaise with volunteers on them. Very difficult to do in practice, but better than the current system of unsupported volunteers running a conference. James Hare is doing a wonderful job, but running a conference AND being a student is a very, very difficult thing to do, and I fear we'll start to burn out valuable volunteers if we're not careful - or adversely impact their studies.
I'd also like to see Wikimania moved to a two-year-in-advance system, rather than a one-year-in-advance as we have now. One year is *not *enough time to plan a conference.
Richard Symonds
On 5 July 2012 11:32, Theo10011 de10011@gmail.com wrote:
Is there a good reason why there is still no "Wikimania coordinator" on staff?
I remember bringing this up with James Owen about an year and a half ago. The staff is almost twice as large as that time. Wikimania is by far, the single largest event that happens within this world, and yet there is not a single dedicated staff personnel? I don't think not being able to afford a staff position for this is a credible excuse anymore.
An event-organizer from within US/EU, with experience in organizing international conferences, can make this process a lot easier. Organization like WMF, Mozilla for example, have several event organizers, and Visa coordinators on staff or on part-time basis for these issues.
I see more wisdom in that thought now, than before.
Regards Theo
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com wrote:
As a response to this thread and a few others, I've created this page on the WM2012 wiki: http://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Visa_rejections ...in the hope that information gathered there will help future Wikimania organizers assists participants to get visas and clear the immigration process.
Deryck
On 4 July 2012 18:23, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
Stephen Wanjau, 04/07/2012 19:01:
I wonder if there is a record somewhere that lists the prospective
attendees who didn’t attend Wikimania since they were denied Visa or on any other grounds. Such a record would help us decide on future Wikimania hosts with regards to easy of Visa acquaintance.
This is not needed. Visa problems were very well known when the decision has been made.
Nemo
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On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Richard Symonds < richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
I suspect that there may be pushback from the community about it being "taken over" by the WMF, if it were run by staff. There's also the issue with other countries - if we hold Wikimania in London, the WMF would not really be able to help, as they'd have no contacts and would be running the whole event at a year's notice, which isn't very long at all in conference terms.
The UK chapter has an events organiser who handled all our scholarships this year. People had their hotels, hostels, and flights booked for them, and she sent out the details to everyone. Having a WMF person in charge of some of the process would be very useful, but having the WMF run the entire event may not be an ideal solution.
Personally, I'd like to see a core WMF events team who help all major events (Wikimania-sized), but liaise with volunteers on them. Very difficult to do in practice, but better than the current system of unsupported volunteers running a conference. James Hare is doing a wonderful job, but running a conference AND being a student is a very, very difficult thing to do, and I fear we'll start to burn out valuable volunteers if we're not careful - or adversely impact their studies.
I'd also like to see Wikimania moved to a two-year-in-advance system, rather than a one-year-in-advance as we have now. One year is *not *enough time to plan a conference.
I never suggested a take-over.
The problem is majority of the framework, or lack thereof, has remained the same years after the first Wikimania. Every year someone from the community, most commonly James, takes a lead to announce a jury, and wikipedians with no experience organizing international events, bid, the jury picks and they are on their own from that point onward. Every year, there are more or less the same problems with visas, accommodations. And every year a discussion ensues after the event with the suggestion of adding a gap year or de-emphasizing Wikimania for local event. I don't think a two-year-in-advance system will change anything, as long as its the same embassies, the same visas, and the same issues. One year is plenty of time, most countries don't permit visa application more than 3 months before the departure date, many venues don't allow booking 2 year in advance, same for caterers and hotels. Whatever quote you receive that far in advance is likely to change months before the actual event.
In the mean time, Wikimanias have become larger and larger with more people from more countries attending. There are issues that need professional help at this point, even partly would help. At the end of the year, we don't have to throw away the know-how acquired, and then start fresh the next year. I never suggested WMF should organize the event, the organizing team should, but that is all they should be expected to do - organize the event in their city, the rest of the administrative tasks before the event should be shared by someone more experienced.
Certain administrative tasks, things like bulk-bookings, paper-work, visa issues can be handled centrally. They can even generate a lot of cost-savings in the process if done right. This doesn't mean de-emphasizing or taking away anything from the ground team, but facilitating them, giving them options, or taking care of the tasks they don't want, so they can focus on the actual event itself, not the pre-event arrangements. I'm not even talking about an events team, just a single person to begin with.
Regards Theo
That's an interesting thought, and I would be curious to know if it had ever been explored by the Foundation.
However, there's a limited amount one person based remotely can do. As Richard says, somebody in San Francisco isn't much use to a team in London. There are things that they could do, like offer advice, and maybe build a network of contacts at embassies , maybe even help with coordination of efforts, but that's a part-time job for a few months, not a permanent full time job.
What would be useful would be having someone with relevant experience on the ground who was paid to help deliver Wikimania, but that would be impractical, expensive, and possibly not much more use. Certainly in the UK, we've assembled a brilliant team, and some us have quite considerable experience organising events (though nothing quite on the scale of Wikimania), and we have the support of an excellent chapter, many of whose trustees are themselves experienced in events organising, with a core group of staff for whom I have the utmost respect, and whom I suspect will be invaluable in helping us prepare the London 2014 bid.
I suspect what Wikimania lacks is a permanent knowledge base that's there year on year. Perhaps employing a member of one Wikimania's organising committee to support the next year's might solve that. But it might not, and the next step is to have Wikimania organised by a permanent group of Foundation staff, and I don't think that would be good for Wikimania or for the Foundation. Harry Mitchell
Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
________________________________ From: Theo10011 de10011@gmail.com To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, 5 July 2012, 12:45 Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] visa denied ... what to do?
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Richard Symonds richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
I suspect that there may be pushback from the community about it being "taken over" by the WMF, if it were run by staff. There's also the issue with other countries - if we hold Wikimania in London, the WMF would not really be able to help, as they'd have no contacts and would be running the whole event at a year's notice, which isn't very long at all in conference terms.
The UK chapter has an events organiser who handled all our scholarships this year. People had their hotels, hostels, and flights booked for them, and she sent out the details to everyone. Having a WMF person in charge of some of the process would be very useful, but having the WMF run the entire event may not be an ideal solution.
Personally, I'd like to see a core WMF events team who help all major events (Wikimania-sized), but liaise with volunteers on them. Very difficult to do in practice, but better than the current system of unsupported volunteers running a conference. James Hare is doing a wonderful job, but running a conference AND being a student is a very, very difficult thing to do, and I fear we'll start to burn out valuable volunteers if we're not careful - or adversely impact their studies.
I'd also like to see Wikimania moved to a two-year-in-advance system, rather than a one-year-in-advance as we have now. One year is not enough time to plan a conference.
I never suggested a take-over.
The problem is majority of the framework, or lack thereof, has remained the same years after the first Wikimania. Every year someone from the community, most commonly James, takes a lead to announce a jury, and wikipedians with no experience organizing international events, bid, the jury picks and they are on their own from that point onward. Every year, there are more or less the same problems with visas, accommodations. And every year a discussion ensues after the event with the suggestion of adding a gap year or de-emphasizing Wikimania for local event. I don't think a two-year-in-advance system will change anything, as long as its the same embassies, the same visas, and the same issues. One year is plenty of time, most countries don't permit visa application more than 3 months before the departure date, many venues don't allow booking 2 year in advance, same for caterers and hotels. Whatever quote you receive that far in advance is likely to change months before the actual event.
In the mean time, Wikimanias have become larger and larger with more people from more countries attending. There are issues that need professional help at this point, even partly would help. At the end of the year, we don't have to throw away the know-how acquired, and then start fresh the next year. I never suggested WMF should organize the event, the organizing team should, but that is all they should be expected to do - organize the event in their city, the rest of the administrative tasks before the event should be shared by someone more experienced.
Certain administrative tasks, things like bulk-bookings, paper-work, visa issues can be handled centrally. They can even generate a lot of cost-savings in the process if done right. This doesn't mean de-emphasizing or taking away anything from the ground team, but facilitating them, giving them options, or taking care of the tasks they don't want, so they can focus on the actual event itself, not the pre-event arrangements. I'm not even talking about an events team, just a single person to begin with.
Regards Theo _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
We have a problem in that the places where we have most editors and organisation are sometimes amongst the hardest to get visas for.
There is an easy solution - those of us who want events to take place in exotic places with open borders can help bids by doing helpful editing on their pages. I've helped several over the years, we could go broader on that. I don't see why the program each year couldn't be run by a multinational project team on Meta. The local team certainly need to advise on room sizes and distance between meeting rooms, but a lot of the work of choosing the submissions and organising the program could be done remotely. Obviously the more we do remotely the less needs to be done by the local organisers, and the less they need to do the more practical it is for smaller groups of Wikimedians to bid.
The ideal Wikimania venue is in a country that has very open borders, is currently relatively cheap and is a longhaul flight from the last two venues. Alexandria and Buenos Aires were perfect in all those regards. Of course not every venue is going to meet every criteria, and a global hub like London might wind up so much cheaper to get to that it's accommodation costs were moot. But if we do choose a country that is hard for people to get to in person then we should make that conference as accessible to live streaming and Eparticipation as we can, That's a hint to the DC organisers to remind us now how much they will live stream, and what else they will do for eParticipation. For example is there going to be a Skype chat room in one of the coffee lounges where people in Wikimania can talk to anyone who logs in? That would be a useful venue for people who wanted to ask a question of one of the presenters after watching a live feed. Better still we could have each presentation have a follow up Q&A session on Skype an hour later.
WSC
On 5 July 2012 09:53, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com wrote:
As a response to this thread and a few others, I've created this page on the WM2012 wiki: http://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Visa_rejections ...in the hope that information gathered there will help future Wikimania organizers assists participants to get visas and clear the immigration process.
Deryck
On 4 July 2012 18:23, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
Stephen Wanjau, 04/07/2012 19:01:
I wonder if there is a record somewhere that lists the prospective
attendees who didn’t attend Wikimania since they were denied Visa or on any other grounds. Such a record would help us decide on future Wikimania hosts with regards to easy of Visa acquaintance.
This is not needed. Visa problems were very well known when the decision has been made.
Nemo
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For what it's worth, the program committee and the scholarship committee had international members. In my opinion, as the size of the conference grows, what is needed is not a full-time person at the foundation dedicated to Wikimania, but allocation in the Wikimania budget for full time staff of at least 2-3 people on the local team, in addition to the volunteers.
Wikimania 2012 was planned with some very hard work by amazing volunteers. We had no paid staff at all, unless you count our awesome event planner, who is a contractor, and our intern, who did not start until June.
Nicholas
Sincerely,
Nicholas Michael Bashour President Wikimedia District of Columbia Washington, DC, USA
2012/7/5 WereSpielChequers werespielchequers@gmail.com
We have a problem in that the places where we have most editors and organisation are sometimes amongst the hardest to get visas for.
There is an easy solution - those of us who want events to take place in exotic places with open borders can help bids by doing helpful editing on their pages. I've helped several over the years, we could go broader on that. I don't see why the program each year couldn't be run by a multinational project team on Meta. The local team certainly need to advise on room sizes and distance between meeting rooms, but a lot of the work of choosing the submissions and organising the program could be done remotely. Obviously the more we do remotely the less needs to be done by the local organisers, and the less they need to do the more practical it is for smaller groups of Wikimedians to bid.
The ideal Wikimania venue is in a country that has very open borders, is currently relatively cheap and is a longhaul flight from the last two venues. Alexandria and Buenos Aires were perfect in all those regards. Of course not every venue is going to meet every criteria, and a global hub like London might wind up so much cheaper to get to that it's accommodation costs were moot. But if we do choose a country that is hard for people to get to in person then we should make that conference as accessible to live streaming and Eparticipation as we can, That's a hint to the DC organisers to remind us now how much they will live stream, and what else they will do for eParticipation. For example is there going to be a Skype chat room in one of the coffee lounges where people in Wikimania can talk to anyone who logs in? That would be a useful venue for people who wanted to ask a question of one of the presenters after watching a live feed. Better still we could have each presentation have a follow up Q&A session on Skype an hour later.
WSC
On 5 July 2012 09:53, Deryck Chan deryckchan@gmail.com wrote:
As a response to this thread and a few others, I've created this page on the WM2012 wiki: http://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Visa_rejections ...in the hope that information gathered there will help future Wikimania organizers assists participants to get visas and clear the immigration process.
Deryck
On 4 July 2012 18:23, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
Stephen Wanjau, 04/07/2012 19:01:
I wonder if there is a record somewhere that lists the prospective
attendees who didn’t attend Wikimania since they were denied Visa or on any other grounds. Such a record would help us decide on future Wikimania hosts with regards to easy of Visa acquaintance.
This is not needed. Visa problems were very well known when the decision has been made.
Nemo
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Not only people from Kenya are refused visas. From other countries too. See
https://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:A1
Ruslan
2012/7/4 Stephen Wanjau stevewanjau@wikimedia.or.ke
Hello!
I wonder if there is a record somewhere that lists the prospective attendees who didn’t attend Wikimania since they were denied Visa or on any other grounds. Such a record would help us decide on future Wikimania hosts with regards to easy of Visa acquaintance.
Al beit am happy that there shall be other Wikimedians from Kenya who will be at Wikimania 2012.
It is sad that the quality of the conference would be affected in the negative:(
My two cents.
regards, Stephen
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Stephen Wanjau < stevewanjau@wikimedia.or.ke> wrote:
Hello!
I was also *denied* the US Visa by the consular here in Kenya. As far as I understand, the embassy usually has some statistics of youths visiting the US and whether they usually return after their purported mission in the US is over.
Sadly, most unemployed vicenarians who request for conference Visas from Kenya usually end up as illegal immigrants in the US. So for my case I would say that I suffered due to the crime committed by others who went to the US before me. I provided the prerequisite documents as is required of me but that wouldn't change the decision of the consular officer.
Nonetheless, am happy that three Wikimedians from Kenya secured their Visas and they will be at Wikimania2012.
Hopefully, I will be in the next Wikimania.
Enjoy the conference and I would do my best to follow up on talks I was interested in attending on Youtube and the documentations wherever they will be on-line.
To the attendees, have a fruitful conference.
Cheers Stephen.
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Ting Chen wing.philopp@gmx.de wrote:
Hello Rupert,
the experience is that if an ambassy denies a visa (most probably without any reason), there is nothing to do with it.
Greetings Ting
On 24.06.2012 02:49, wrote rupert THURNER:
hi,
what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
rupert.
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-- Ting
Ting's Blog: http://wingphilopp.blogspot.**com/http://wingphilopp.blogspot.com/
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