Am 24.06.2012 21:41 schrieb "Thomas Dalton" <thomas.dalton@gmail.com>:
>
> On 24 June 2012 20:15, rupert THURNER <rupert.thurner@gmail.com> wrote:
> > i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive:
> > 1. get it to the embassies beforehand
> >    e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy
> > 2. have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with
> >    the embassy
> > 3. have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation
> >    last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood
> >    that single voyagers do not have the experience, and
> >    wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close
> >    to the start.
> >
> > maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a
> > major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host
> > wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised -
> > especially visa and hotel rates ;)
> >
> > my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two
> > of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who
> > work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses.  you can even
> > visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and
> > helpful.
>
> If the embassy says "no", then the answer is "no". There isn't really
> anything anyone can do about it. If the embassy gave a reason for the
> rejection, then fix it and try again. If they didn't (and won't give a
> reason when contacted), then there's really nothing you can do.
>
> The organisers sent letters of invitation. That's really all they can
> do, since the visa is issued by the embassy to the individual and the
> Wikimania team aren't a party to any of that. There also isn't much
> the Wikimania team can do about any of the common reasons for a visa
> being rejected. They can confirm that the event is really happening
> and that the person really has said they plan to go to it (that's what
> the letter of invitation is for), but they can't do anything to help
> prove you're not going to do anything illegal while in the country or
> that you're going to go home afterwards. They have no control over
> those things and, in the majority of cases, they don't know the
> individual well enough to vouch for them (if such a vouching would
> actually help, which I'm not sure it would). It is up to the applicant
> to convince the embassy of those things because the applicant is the
> only person that

A very good comment. To show that the organizers want the person to go there is key. An inexperienced 22 year old, who has at least some computer education, never abroad, no special family ties is the perfect candidate to have difficulties to argue. Its the perfect candidate not to return at the same time he is the prototypical wikimedian.

We all agree that people from countries where there is not yet an established community are desired to get included, so my wish would be to find better means of support so such a person does not get blocked for visa issues.

The big difference between some conference and wikimedia conferences is the community who is able to check this persons contribution and as well putting up a social pressure that a supported person goes back. But some officer in an embassy in a country without wikimedia community might underestimate this and, in doubt, refuse the visa. Imo it is essential to directly talk to the embassy.

Rupert.