Hi all -- I just signed up to this list and was looking atht e archives a bit. I noticed the discussion about the Wikimania German site, and was curious after reading this comment:
Part of their logo, however, is a distorted version of the Wikipedia
logo, which I believe is not kosher; whoever contacts them to request they change their logo should also press them to change the name of the project.
I went to the site and it did look a lot like our logo. But I found a little section on their page about themselves which talks about their logo: http://www.wikimania.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Wikimania:%C3%9Cber_Wikimani...
See the "Unser LOGO" section. My German isn't that great anymore but they basically say they got theirs from a book which came out in 2001 and that it is very sad that we picked a similar logo (if I'm not reading it wrong, they are subtlely claiming that we stole in from them).
The book: http://www.informatik.hu-berlin.de/~gutsche/ideen-werkstatt/Ssingh2.jpg
This is from 2001, our current logo didn't evolve until 2003 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Logos_and_slogans
So... yeah. Looking over the logo discussion, I don't see any evidence that our current logo was influenced by that book or the German website: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image_talk:Paullusmagnus-logo_%28small%29.png
Our progression was: 1. Text on a ball 2. Ball made of puzzle 3. Text on puzzle 4. Individual letters on puzzle It seems like an independent visual genealogy, unless I'm missing something. Very odd. Anyway, I don't think we have a strong claim about them copying us.
So.. beyond that.. hi! Glad to be here!
FF
Fastfission wrote:
I went to the site and it did look a lot like our logo. But I found a little section on their page about themselves which talks about their logo: http://www.wikimania.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Wikimania:%C3%9Cber_Wikimani...
See the "Unser LOGO" section. My German isn't that great anymore but they basically say they got theirs from a book which came out in 2001 and that it is very sad that we picked a similar logo (if I'm not reading it wrong, they are subtlely claiming that we stole in from them).
[snip]
It seems like an independent visual genealogy, unless I'm missing something.
You are. :)
Very odd. Anyway, I don't think we have a strong claim about them copying us.
Their logo is quite obviously the Wikipedia logo with a vertical shear and stretch applied, and most *but not all* of the letters airbrushed out and replaced.
1. Load http://en.wikipedia.org/images/wiki-en.png in an image editor such as The Gimp 2. Scale vertically to about 200px 3. Shear vertically about 50px 4. Rotate about 15 degrees clockwise
I've taken the liberty of making a quick side-by-side comparison: http://new.leuksman.com/misc/logo-comparison.png
Notice: 1. The shape and edge shading of the puzzle pieces match exactly. 2. One symbol on the upper-left matches exactly between the two, which doesn't match the style of their other symbols at all. 3. Their letters don't follow perspective and stray over the piece edges; they have clearly been pasted on in an image editor rather than existing on the texture when the sphere was rendered. 4. There are tell-tale smudges of mismatched shading all over the surface where they've clearly airbrushed out the existing symbols before pasting their new ones on.
("Our" version is blurry here as it's from the low-resolution site copy. A high-resolution source image, easily obtainable, would allow you to make a similarly sharp distorted copy.)
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Hmm, yes, well that is rather compelling when placed side by side! If they *did* originally create a logo from that source, that certainly isn't the one they use now. (it looks like it has changed again today, actually)
FF
On 12/13/05, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
Fastfission wrote:
I went to the site and it did look a lot like our logo. But I found a little section on their page about themselves which talks about their logo: http://www.wikimania.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Wikimania:%C3%9Cber_Wikimani...
See the "Unser LOGO" section. My German isn't that great anymore but they basically say they got theirs from a book which came out in 2001 and that it is very sad that we picked a similar logo (if I'm not reading it wrong, they are subtlely claiming that we stole in from them).
[snip]
It seems like an independent visual genealogy, unless I'm missing something.
You are. :)
Very odd. Anyway, I don't think we have a strong claim about them copying us.
Their logo is quite obviously the Wikipedia logo with a vertical shear and stretch applied, and most *but not all* of the letters airbrushed out and replaced.
- Load http://en.wikipedia.org/images/wiki-en.png in an image editor such as
The Gimp 2. Scale vertically to about 200px 3. Shear vertically about 50px 4. Rotate about 15 degrees clockwise
I've taken the liberty of making a quick side-by-side comparison: http://new.leuksman.com/misc/logo-comparison.png
Notice:
- The shape and edge shading of the puzzle pieces match exactly.
- One symbol on the upper-left matches exactly between the two, which doesn't
match the style of their other symbols at all. 3. Their letters don't follow perspective and stray over the piece edges; they have clearly been pasted on in an image editor rather than existing on the texture when the sphere was rendered. 4. There are tell-tale smudges of mismatched shading all over the surface where they've clearly airbrushed out the existing symbols before pasting their new ones on.
("Our" version is blurry here as it's from the low-resolution site copy. A high-resolution source image, easily obtainable, would allow you to make a similarly sharp distorted copy.)
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
hmm. something must've worked. The puzzle pieces peeling off are still a bit too close to our version, but I think they'd probably be okay. What about the trademark(?) Wikimania?
Dear all,
Though most of us probably love the name Wikimania for our favorite world wide event, it is likely to be necessary to "change" it, as "securing" it (domain names, trademarks...) will cost us much.
So, along with other issues, I guess it will be necessary to brainstorm over a new name... pretty quickly.
When a collection of names is "voted" upon, or prior to deciding a final name, please check with Soufron for the availability as a trademark and for the domain name.
Cheers
Ant
WikiWorld ? Maybe the WikiWorld-conference
Effeietsanders
2006/1/3, Austin Hair adhair@gmail.com:
ManiaWiki! Who's with me?
-- Austin
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Should it be formal or informal? Who is our target audience?
mysekurity wrote:
Should it be formal or informal? Who is our target audience?
There seems to be a lot of interest in attracting strong academic participation, so we might want to think about aiming for a more conventional name.
On Jan 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Ivan Krstic wrote:
mysekurity wrote:
Should it be formal or informal? Who is our target audience?
There seems to be a lot of interest in attracting strong academic participation, so we might want to think about aiming for a more conventional name.
So I guess WikiInsanity is out, then ...
j
Or WikiPsycho, for that matter
On 1/3/06, j Baumgart jkbaumg@attglobal.net wrote:
So I guess WikiInsanity is out, then ...
j
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-----Original Message----- From: wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of j Baumgart Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 16:08 To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania: name of a conference...
On Jan 3, 2006, at 4:56 PM, Ivan Krstic wrote:
mysekurity wrote:
Should it be formal or informal? Who is our target audience?
There seems to be a lot of interest in attracting strong academic participation, so we might want to think about aiming for a more conventional name.
So I guess WikiInsanity is out, then ...
j -- It's well and good to foster academic participation, but if the academics are going to be so high brow as to be put off by the name of a conference, are they really worth having there? If part of the goal is to try and get more people interested in the goals of the Foundation (...to maintain and develop free-content, wiki-based projects and to provide the full contents of those projects to the public free of charge) and to help bring in donations, going with a high brow name is not a good marketing move, in my humble opinion. Is it always necessary to cloak things in language that people cannot understand in order to keep out the hoi palloi?
Darren.
Kereluk, Darren L. wrote:
going with a high brow name is not a good marketing move, in my humble opinion. Is it always necessary to cloak things in language that people cannot understand in order to keep out the hoi palloi?
How did you get to 'high brow' and 'language that people cannot understand' from the phrase 'a more conventional name'?
I was thinking along the simple lines of 'Wiki Conference 2006', a name in the spirit of the Spam Conference (www.spamconference.org) or the RSA Conference (www.rsaconference.com).
On 1/3/06, Ivan Krstic krstic@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
I was thinking along the simple lines of 'Wiki Conference 2006', a name in the spirit of the Spam Conference (www.spamconference.org) or the RSA Conference (www.rsaconference.com).
"Conference" sounds a little too uppity to me. I like the idea (and I was thinking of it myself), but I think it doesn't convey the fun sense we're trying to promote. Something along the lines of WikiMeetup (though not as stupid sounding) would be better, I think.
On 1/3/06, mysekurity mysekurity@gmail.com wrote:
"Conference" sounds a little too uppity to me. I like the idea (and I was thinking of it myself), but I think it doesn't convey the fun sense we're trying to promote. Something along the lines of WikiMeetup (though not as stupid sounding) would be better, I think.
That certainly holds true for other names which were considered last year, like "congress" and "symposium," but "conference" is probably the most plain-speaking way of describing our event without resorting to words like "shindig."
Mind you, I wouldn't object to a shindig.
-- Austin
Well sure, but doesn't anyone like (or has anyone even read) my last few messages? I agree that conference is plain-sounding, but it still doesn't carry the fun sense that WikiMania held, and sounds more like a professional get-together than an open-air type thing. What about WikiExpo or WikiSym? Are we married to the idea of combining Wiki with everything (not that we don't in all of our projects, but still...).
wikisym is spoken for: http://www.wikisym.org/
On 1/3/06, mysekurity mysekurity@gmail.com wrote:
Well sure, but doesn't anyone like (or has anyone even read) my last few messages? I agree that conference is plain-sounding, but it still doesn't carry the fun sense that WikiMania held, and sounds more like a professional get-together than an open-air type thing. What about WikiExpo or WikiSym? Are we married to the idea of combining Wiki with everything (not that we don't in all of our projects, but still...). _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 1/4/06, phoebe ayers brassratgirl@gmail.com wrote:
wikisym is spoken for: http://www.wikisym.org/
Oh sorry, right. I meant to say WikiSem, as in seminar. I know of wikisym because SJ went to it. (I wrote this in two others, but oh well). I like the name WikiSem, and it goes well with WikiSym. Or do you think it will be too confusing between the two? One is WikiSym[posium], the other is WikiSem[inar]. How's that sound?
sorry, didn't see all your messages! But I think wikisym/wikisem would be pretty confusing, since they sound so similar spoken and are spelled so similarly.
On 1/3/06, mysekurity mysekurity@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/4/06, phoebe ayers brassratgirl@gmail.com wrote:
wikisym is spoken for: http://www.wikisym.org/
Oh sorry, right. I meant to say WikiSem, as in seminar. I know of wikisym because SJ went to it. (I wrote this in two others, but oh well). I like the name WikiSem, and it goes well with WikiSym. Or do you think it will be too confusing between the two? One is WikiSym[posium], the other is WikiSem[inar]. How's that sound?
_
On 1/4/06, phoebe ayers brassratgirl@gmail.com wrote:
sorry, didn't see all your messages!
It's alright, because most people really didn't seem them either, so you're in good company.
But I think wikisym/wikisem would be pretty confusing, since they sound so similar spoken and are spelled so similarly.
I agree with you on that point, and yes, they would be pretty confusing. Conversely, I'm still not sure of a good name, as most of the conference names have been spoken for.
_____
From: wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of mysekurity Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 23:10 To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania: name of a conference...
Well sure, but doesn't anyone like (or has anyone even read) my last few messages? I agree that conference is plain-sounding, but it still doesn't carry the fun sense that WikiMania held, and sounds more like a professional get-together than an open-air type thing. What about WikiExpo or WikiSym? Are we married to the idea of combining Wiki with everything (not that we don't in all of our projects, but still...). [Kereluk, Darren L.] Ok, since you are asking for input, I'm going to pull a "notwithstanding" and do yet another final comment. These are indeed catchy names, but I don't know how the Expo one will work out legally (given the other Expos out there; ie: is there some sort of trademark on the word "Expo") or the Sem one that you spoke of earlier will work out legally as well (some folks might connect it with Semagic). The Wiki prefix certainly denotes it as being different from other events, but the "root" of the name has to be different as well to avoid brand confusion.
Darren.
Shucks. I guess that puts us right back at square one, then. I'm not opposed to the use of Conference, but I think we can definitely come up with a more creative word than that (too bad about Wikimania). I say we leave this open for a couple of days, maybe a post on the Village Pump or something, and see what peoples' ideas are.
On 1/4/06, Kereluk, Darren L. dlkereluk@sasktel.net wrote:
**
*From:* wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto: wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] *On Behalf Of *mysekurity *Sent:* Tuesday, January 03, 2006 23:10 *To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription) *Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania: name of a conference...
Well sure, but doesn't anyone like (or has anyone even read) my last few messages? I agree that conference is plain-sounding, but it still doesn't carry the fun sense that WikiMania held, and sounds more like a professional get-together than an open-air type thing. What about WikiExpo or WikiSym? Are we married to the idea of combining Wiki with everything (not that we don't in all of our projects, but still...). *[Kereluk, Darren L.] Ok, since you are asking for input, I'm going to pull a "notwithstanding" and do yet another final comment. These are indeed catchy names, but I don't know how the Expo one will work out legally (given the other Expos out there; ie: is there some sort of trademark on the word "Expo") or the Sem one that you spoke of earlier will work out legally as well (some folks might connect it with Semagic). The Wiki prefix certainly denotes it as being different from other events, but the "root" of the name has to be different as well to avoid brand confusion.* ** *Darren.*
-- No virus found in Darren L. Kereluk's outgoing email. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.12/220 - Release Date: 1/3/2006
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
The best that I can come up with right now is Wikifinity.
Darren.
_____
From: mysekurity [mailto:mysekurity@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 23:27 To: dlkereluk@sasktel.net; Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania: name of a conference...
Shucks. I guess that puts us right back at square one, then. I'm not opposed to the use of Conference, but I think we can definitely come up with a more creative word than that (too bad about Wikimania). I say we leave this open for a couple of days, maybe a post on the Village Pump or something, and see what peoples' ideas are.
On 1/4/06, Kereluk, Darren L. <HYPERLINK "mailto:dlkereluk@sasktel.net"dlkereluk@sasktel.net> wrote:
_____
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org" \nwikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org" \n wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of mysekurity Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 23:10 To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania: name of a conference...
Well sure, but doesn't anyone like (or has anyone even read) my last few messages? I agree that conference is plain-sounding, but it still doesn't carry the fun sense that WikiMania held, and sounds more like a professional get-together than an open-air type thing. What about WikiExpo or WikiSym? Are we married to the idea of combining Wiki with everything (not that we don't in all of our projects, but still...). [Kereluk, Darren L.] Ok, since you are asking for input, I'm going to pull a "notwithstanding" and do yet another final comment. These are indeed catchy names, but I don't know how the Expo one will work out legally (given the other Expos out there; ie: is there some sort of trademark on the word "Expo") or the Sem one that you spoke of earlier will work out legally as well (some folks might connect it with Semagic). The Wiki prefix certainly denotes it as being different from other events, but the "root" of the name has to be different as well to avoid brand confusion.
Darren.
-- No virus found in Darren L. Kereluk's outgoing email. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.12/220 - Release Date: 1/3/2006
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-----Original Message----- From: wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Ivan Krstic Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 16:41 To: Wikimania list Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania: name of a conference...
Kereluk, Darren L. wrote:
going with a high brow name is not a good marketing move, in my humble opinion. Is it always necessary to cloak things in language that people cannot understand in order to keep out the hoi palloi?
How did you get to 'high brow' and 'language that people cannot understand' from the phrase 'a more conventional name'?
...from the simple fact that whenever something great in technology comes along, there is invariably a movement to change the terms used to something "more conventional". One of the things that made the conference stand out when I was looking for a suitable event to attend in 2006 was its current name. I'm sorry to disagree with you, but using a boring name does not help make a conference, or any other product, for that matter, stand out in the sea of many options that are out there for people to partake of.
My point is that you have to use every available means at your disposal to stand out.
Thank you for allowing me to have my say. I will now leave the discussion for others to carry on.
Darren.
Kereluk, Darren L. wrote:
I'm sorry to disagree with you, but using a boring name does not help make a conference, or any other product, for that matter, stand out in the sea of many options that are out there for people to partake of.
Please don't misunderstand me. I like the current name. I'm merely pointing out that in a number of conversations I've had, people were surprised that Wikimania was any kind of a "real" conference to which they should pay attention.
If there is concensus that we're OK with the "immature" image (or that we can easily change it through other means), more power to us.
Thank you for allowing me to have my say. I will now leave the discussion for others to carry on.
Likewise.
Ivan Krstic wrote:
mysekurity wrote:
Should it be formal or informal? Who is our target audience?
There seems to be a lot of interest in attracting strong academic participation, so we might want to think about aiming for a more conventional name.
the name of the conference should not change every year. We may wish to attract academics this year, but not the next year.
Ant
Florence Devouard wrote:
the name of the conference should not change every year. We may wish to attract academics this year, but not the next year.
I wasn't recommending an academically themed name, but merely suggesting we consider a more traditional one since we apparently have to change it.
On 1/3/06, Ivan Krstic krstic@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
There seems to be a lot of interest in attracting strong academic participation, so we might want to think about aiming for a more conventional name.
How about "wikipalooza"? =^P -- http://freelogy.org/wiki/User:AlexanderWait (GnuPG ID 4153C516)
Actually, i would argue that academic conferences tend to be more idiosyncratically named (usually involving acronyms) than "conventional." For example, the ones i've been to recently are: CHI, SIGGRAPH, CSCW, HICSS, AAA, ASA, Sunbelt, AOIR, Ubicomp, WWW, I3D, InfoVis, LITA, PSI... Smaller non-annual workshops tend to have descriptive names (particularly in the humanities) but most of the big annual ones are short-hand or acronyms. They also often stand for the "community" name. For example, SIGGRAPH is "Special Interest Group in Computer Graphics" and PSI is "Performance Studies International" and AAA is "American Anthropological Association" and AOIR is "Association of Online Internet Researchers." So the conference is named the same as the association.
One thing to note: in academia-land, anything ending with -expo, - world, -con, is perceived as industry-focused and is eschewed by academics.
danah
On Jan 3, 2006, at 1:56 PM, Ivan Krstic wrote:
mysekurity wrote:
Should it be formal or informal? Who is our target audience?
There seems to be a lot of interest in attracting strong academic participation, so we might want to think about aiming for a more conventional name.
-- Ivan Krstic krstic@fas.harvard.edu | 0x147C722D _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
- - - - - - - - - - d a n a h ( d o t ) o r g - - - - - - - - - - "taken out of context i must seem so strange"
musings :: http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts
Though most of us probably love the name Wikimania for our favorite world wide event, it is likely to be necessary to "change" it, as "securing" it (domain names, trademarks...) will cost us much.
This is really unfortunate, for continuity reasons if nothing else. How much are we talking about?
WikiCon? Wiki2006? (2007, 2008, etc)
I do like ManiaWiki, though.
-- phoebe /brassratgirl
On 1/3/06, phoebe ayers brassratgirl@gmail.com wrote:
WikiCon? Wiki2006? (2007, 2008, etc)
Believe me, if you were French, you would *not* want WikiCon in any way ;-).
I do like ManiaWiki, though.
Yep, with Austin on that one ;-). Austin Powah!
Delphine -- ~notafish
Just a short note:
Wikimania is already known - it does not make sense to change the name of the conference, but to create a yearly event with the same name. This gives a higher relevancy and provides that memory effect we need. People will immediately know what it is about. If someone is "copying" go the Coca-Cola way and use "the original" or something similar in the subtitle. Use the "2nd edition" or whatever to recall things, to show stability - in that way there will be "special editions".
Compare Wikimania to a trade fair - what would happen if the CeBit would change its name? What would have happened if they changed their name each year?
And: Happy New Year to all of you!!!
Best,
Sabine
Delphine Ménard wrote:
On 1/3/06, phoebe ayers brassratgirl@gmail.com wrote:
WikiCon? Wiki2006? (2007, 2008, etc)
Believe me, if you were French, you would *not* want WikiCon in any way ;-).
I do like ManiaWiki, though.
Yep, with Austin on that one ;-). Austin Powah!
Delphine
~notafish
___________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it
On 1/4/06, Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote:
Wikimania is already known - it does not make sense to change the name of the conference, but to create a yearly event with the same name.
[snip]
Compare Wikimania to a trade fair - what would happen if the CeBit would change its name? What would have happened if they changed their name each year?
Agreed with all your points but... did you read Florence's first post to the list? The point of changing the name is not *just* for changing the name, but for way more practical and boring reasons of domain names and trademark issues.
So.. where were we?
Don't forget that the name has to be international (Wikimania 2005 was, after all, the first *international* Wikimedia conference).
We had: -Wikiworld (domain out) -Wikisym (exists already) -Wikisem (too close to Wikisym, I would say) -Wikiconf -Wikiaffinity -Wikinfinity -WikiExpo (that one suggests an exhibition, not a conference, but as to the trademark issue, I can assure you that "expo" cannot be trademarked as such, so it would be a possibility) -ManiaWiki -add what I forgot
Here are a few ideas out of my foggy brain: -Wikiwiki -Wikitalks -Wikifolly -Wikiall -Allaboutwiki -Wikiwow -Wikizoo -Wikifun -Funnywiki -WikiWikis
(I love Wikipalooza! ;-))
Delphine (who probably should go back to bed) -- ~notafish
Wikiworld was indeed very likely to be already taken :(
What about World Wide Wiki ? Or the Wonderfull World of Wiki's. ;-) Gives a nice shotcut :-P, but maybe confusing. So maybe then WikiWonder or WikiMiricle ? Some more: WikiMirror WikIrl (wiki-irl => wikirl ) Wiki-afk Wiki-brb WikiLive or WikiLife WikiParty WikiClass
Well, probably a lot more. My personal favorite of these: WikiLive :) Just hope now that it is not as well already taken...
greeting, Effeietsanders / Eia
2006/1/4, Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
On 1/4/06, Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote:
Wikimania is already known - it does not make sense to change the name of the conference, but to create a yearly event with the same name.
[snip]
Compare Wikimania to a trade fair - what would happen if the CeBit would change its name? What would have happened if they changed their name each year?
Agreed with all your points but... did you read Florence's first post to the list? The point of changing the name is not *just* for changing the name, but for way more practical and boring reasons of domain names and trademark issues.
So.. where were we?
Don't forget that the name has to be international (Wikimania 2005 was, after all, the first *international* Wikimedia conference).
We had: -Wikiworld (domain out) -Wikisym (exists already) -Wikisem (too close to Wikisym, I would say) -Wikiconf -Wikiaffinity -Wikinfinity -WikiExpo (that one suggests an exhibition, not a conference, but as to the trademark issue, I can assure you that "expo" cannot be trademarked as such, so it would be a possibility) -ManiaWiki -add what I forgot
Here are a few ideas out of my foggy brain: -Wikiwiki -Wikitalks -Wikifolly -Wikiall -Allaboutwiki -Wikiwow -Wikizoo -Wikifun -Funnywiki -WikiWikis
(I love Wikipalooza! ;-))
Delphine (who probably should go back to bed) -- ~notafish _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
effeietsanders-list wrote:
Well, probably a lot more. My personal favorite of these: WikiLive :) Just hope now that it is not as well already taken...
wikilive.net is available, .(com|org) are taken.
Wiki Summit 2006?
wikisummit.(com|net|org) are all available.
On 1/4/06, Ivan Krstic krstic@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
effeietsanders-list wrote:
Well, probably a lot more. My personal favorite of these: WikiLive :) Just hope now that it is not as well already taken...
wikilive.net is available, .(com|org) are taken.
Wiki Summit 2006?
wikisummit.(com|net|org) are all available.
Hmm, how do you (each) pronounce "wikilive" ?
Please add new ideas and comments here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_name_discussion
SJ
On 1/4/06, Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com wrote:
Agreed with all your points but... did you read Florence's first post to the list? The point of changing the name is not *just* for changing the name, but for way more practical and boring reasons of domain names and trademark issues.
So.. where were we?
Don't forget that the name has to be international (Wikimania 2005 was, after all, the first *international* Wikimedia conference).
We had: -Wikiworld (domain out) -Wikisym (exists already) -Wikisem (too close to Wikisym, I would say) -Wikiconf -Wikiaffinity -Wikinfinity -WikiExpo (that one suggests an exhibition, not a conference, but as to the trademark issue, I can assure you that "expo" cannot be trademarked as such, so it would be a possibility) -ManiaWiki -add what I forgot
Here are a few ideas out of my foggy brain: -Wikiwiki -Wikitalks -Wikifolly -Wikiall -Allaboutwiki -Wikiwow -Wikizoo -Wikifun -Funnywiki -WikiWikis
Forget not WikiFest! I think that's a great name, but its domain too, has been registered (albeit recently--Dec 15).
On 1/4/06, Florence Devouard anthere@wikimedia.org wrote:
Just a suggestion before our mailboxes explodes... why not discussing this on WIKI ? You list names, and add comments under names.
Because that'd be a good idea.... In all seriousness, I think that's what should be done next, probably on Meta, with posts to different language wiki's Village Pumps.
And yes, I think World Wide Wiki might be a kinda cool name, but we'll keep searching.
On 1/4/06, Florence Devouard anthere@wikimedia.org wrote:
Just a suggestion before our mailboxes explodes... why not discussing this on WIKI ? You list names, and add comments under names.
Because that'd be a good idea.... In all seriousness, I think that's what should be done next, probably on Meta, with posts to different language wiki's Village Pumps. [Kereluk, Darren L.] Works for me! I would like to thank the community for this very interesting exchange of ideas, regardless where the discussion is moved next.
And yes, I think World Wide Wiki might be a kinda cool name, but we'll keep searching. [Kereluk, Darren L.] It might be yet possible to use a compound name using the wiki prefix and a root that is already used elsewhere. While the "world" one is certainly catchy, it's already in use for two other events; thus if somebody came up with something like Chris Pirillo did when he named his Gnomedex event based on the Comdex event, it might be possible to do the same here at no cost for "borrowing" the root word, especially since the Foundation is a non profit organisation.
I've tried to come up with some more suggestions for names, but to be brutally honest, they are quite craptacular, even if they are "available". (wikifete, wikissembly, wikimirers) The only one that is slightly less craptacular than the others is WikiAgerie--a play on the word menagerie.
Darren.
mysekurity wrote:
On 1/4/06, Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com wrote:
Agreed with all your points but... did you read Florence's first post to the list? The point of changing the name is not *just* for changing the name, but for way more practical and boring reasons of domain names and trademark issues.
So.. where were we?
Don't forget that the name has to be international (Wikimania 2005 was, after all, the first *international* Wikimedia conference).
We had: -Wikiworld (domain out) -Wikisym (exists already) -Wikisem (too close to Wikisym, I would say) -Wikiconf -Wikiaffinity -Wikinfinity -WikiExpo (that one suggests an exhibition, not a conference, but as to the trademark issue, I can assure you that "expo" cannot be trademarked as such, so it would be a possibility) -ManiaWiki -add what I forgot
Here are a few ideas out of my foggy brain: -Wikiwiki -Wikitalks -Wikifolly -Wikiall -Allaboutwiki -Wikiwow -Wikizoo -Wikifun -Funnywiki -WikiWikis
Forget not WikiFest! I think that's a great name, but its domain too, has been registered (albeit recently--Dec 15).
A couple more ideas that I had before I took a liking to Phoebe's perhaps inadvertant "WikiWhatever".
WikiLuau which bring us back to Wiki's Hawaiian ancestry.
WikiFAQ since we love to provide answers.
Ec
Just a suggestion before our mailboxes explodes... why not discussing this on WIKI ? You list names, and add comments under names.
This was done a year ago as well, so maybe some old names could raise ideas as well.
Ant
Sabine Cretella wrote:
Just a short note:
Wikimania is already known - it does not make sense to change the name of the conference, but to create a yearly event with the same name. This gives a higher relevancy and provides that memory effect we need. People will immediately know what it is about. If someone is "copying" go the Coca-Cola way and use "the original" or something similar in the subtitle. Use the "2nd edition" or whatever to recall things, to show stability - in that way there will be "special editions".
Compare Wikimania to a trade fair - what would happen if the CeBit would change its name? What would have happened if they changed their name each year?
And: Happy New Year to all of you!!!
Best,
Sabine
Delphine Ménard wrote:
On 1/3/06, phoebe ayers brassratgirl@gmail.com wrote:
WikiCon? Wiki2006? (2007, 2008, etc)
Believe me, if you were French, you would *not* want WikiCon in any way ;-).
I do like ManiaWiki, though.
Yep, with Austin on that one ;-). Austin Powah!
Delphine
~notafish
___________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Florence Devouard wrote:
Just a suggestion before our mailboxes explodes... why not discussing this on WIKI ? You list names, and add comments under names.
This was done a year ago as well, so maybe some old names could raise ideas as well.
It's both good and bad that the subsacribers to this list are fewer in number. It's obviously bad because fewer Wikipedians are able to participate.
If the issue is cybersquatters, and we are big enough to attract them just like we attract other kinds of internet problem people, we would be giving them a great opportunity. A vote would make it even easier. If I were one I would watch the vote, and a few days before it finished I would register any domain names that could reasonably be expected to win.
Ec
At 23:44 +0100 3/1/06, Delphine Ménard wrote:
On 1/3/06, phoebe ayers brassratgirl@gmail.com wrote:
WikiCon? Wiki2006? (2007, 2008, etc)
Believe me, if you were French, you would *not* want WikiCon in any way ;-).
Or Spanish?
-----Original Message----- From: wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of phoebe ayers Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 16:22 To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania: name of a conference...
Though most of us probably love the name Wikimania for our favorite world wide event, it is likely to be necessary to "change" it, as "securing" it (domain names, trademarks...) will cost us much.
This is really unfortunate, for continuity reasons if nothing else. How much are we talking about?
WikiCon? Wiki2006? (2007, 2008, etc)
I do like ManiaWiki, though.
-- I agree with either Wiki2006 or ManiaWiki, although the former has more of a "flow" to it.
Darren. (This is my last one on this subject, honest! :) )
What about WikiExpo? (though I'm not opposed to something with World in it, a la LinuxWorld/MacWorld)
Looking at [[Conference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference]], I'm getting a few ideas, but nothing too special. I'll send something in if I think of it.
Ooh! How about WikiSem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seminar, to go along with WikiSym? Or too similar?
WikiWorkshop? WikiConf? WikiWorld? (I kinda like that, but I think it could be better)
Thoughts?
On 1/4/06, mysekurity mysekurity@gmail.com wrote:
WikiWorkshop? WikiConf? WikiWorld? (I kinda like that, but I think it could be better)
I suggest we look at availability of domain names before we choose a name. I liked Wikiworld...but it's been taken for...4 years ;).
Cheers,
Delphine -- ~notafish
What about WikiExpo or WikiSem (along the lines of WikiSym, but less symposium and more seminar)? I think those two sound pretty good (sorry for the late responses, btw).
mysekurity wrote:
What about WikiExpo? (though I'm not opposed to something with World in it, a la LinuxWorld/MacWorld)
Looking at [[Conference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference]], I'm getting a few ideas, but nothing too special. I'll send something in if I think of it.
Ooh! How about WikiSem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seminar, to go along with WikiSym? Or too similar?
It makes me think of "The Sims" game series. Perhaps a new title like "The Sims Write an Encyclopedia". :-)
Ec
I am shocked at this discussion and believe that Wikimania is already quite well branded considering that it was the name of a highly-successful conference in Frankfurt which received a lot of press and also attracted the scholarly community. Because of this conference, I was able to secure a job as a university researcher developing the WikiWizard (a Java applet which highlights wiki syntax) at the Heilbronn University of Applied Sciences near Stuttgart, Germany.
I think Wikimania is a cool name, just like Wiki, Java and iPod were chosen as names for their corresponding technologies because they sound cool. What are the real reasons for wanting to change the name Wikimania and are they greater than the disadvantages of losing an already branded name?
Chuck
WikiStorm (in a teacup)?
From what I remember, "Wikimania" was only supposed to be a sub-title,
not the official name of the event, which was the "Wikimedia Conference", so something informal would be best as the new name since we already have the official sounding part in the main title.
Angela
Speaking of which, do you have a link (on Meta or elsewhere) of the discussion regarding the name? I'd be interested to both read and use the information. Thanks!
On 1/4/06, Angela beesley@gmail.com wrote:
From what I remember, "Wikimania" was only supposed to be a sub-title,
not the official name of the event, which was the "Wikimedia Conference", so something informal would be best as the new name since we already have the official sounding part in the main title.
Angela _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 1/4/06, mysekurity mysekurity@gmail.com wrote:
Speaking of which, do you have a link (on Meta or elsewhere) of the discussion regarding the name? I'd be interested to both read and use the information. Thanks!
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania:Name/Vote and http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania:Name&oldid=162184
Angela.
On 1/3/06, Anthere Anthere9@yahoo.com wrote:
Dear all,
Though most of us probably love the name Wikimania for our favorite world wide event, it is likely to be necessary to "change" it, as "securing" it (domain names, trademarks...) will cost us much.
What are the costs of not securing it? Does every term or event name used now need to be locked down as both trademark and domain name? Is the worry that someone else will come along and try to run non-wikimedia conferences with a similar name? (in practice it seems they could already do that, if we give up on "wikimania" as the name... as that word is primarily used, on the web and in wiki/tech circles [some 150k google hits], to refer to the first Wikimedia conference).
SJ
Out of curiosity... what exactly ARE the difficulties? wikimania2006.org is not taken last I checked. CHI seems to be doing quite well using that model. I didn't find Wikimania registered as a trademark with the US, European, Australian or Canadian patent offices at least. Don't know about doing a more comprehensive international search...
On 1/4/06, SJ 2.718281828@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/3/06, Anthere Anthere9@yahoo.com wrote:
Dear all,
Though most of us probably love the name Wikimania for our favorite world wide event, it is likely to be necessary to "change" it, as "securing" it (domain names, trademarks...) will cost us much.
What are the costs of not securing it? Does every term or event name used now need to be locked down as both trademark and domain name? Is the worry that someone else will come along and try to run non-wikimedia conferences with a similar name? (in practice it seems they could already do that, if we give up on "wikimania" as the name... as that word is primarily used, on the web and in wiki/tech circles [some 150k google hits], to refer to the first Wikimedia conference).
SJ _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
An entirely dull one which is not taken is wikiconf.org (hopefully the extra "f" will please the French?).
WikiMeet is sadly taken by a domain squatter, but Wiki-Meet does not seem to be. Nor is WikiMeat. ;-)
Don't ask me why but somebody has even squatted WikiWax... (don't ask why I checked, while you are at it)
FF
On 1/5/06, Andrea Forte andrea.forte@gmail.com wrote:
Out of curiosity... what exactly ARE the difficulties? wikimania2006.org is not taken last I checked. CHI seems to be doing quite well using that model. I didn't find Wikimania registered as a trademark with the US, European, Australian or Canadian patent offices at least. Don't know about doing a more comprehensive international search...
You're very right. I have a soft spot for Wikimania anyway... :-D
Delphine -- ~notafish
On 1/4/06, Andrea Forte andrea.forte@gmail.com wrote:
Out of curiosity... what exactly ARE the difficulties? wikimania2006.org is not taken last I checked. CHI seems to be doing quite well using that model. I didn't find Wikimania registered as a trademark with the US, European, Australian or Canadian patent offices at least. Don't know about doing a more comprehensive international search...
Yeah... but would people know to look for wikimania2006.org over wikimania.org? I say we secure the trademark, and try to discuss with the domain owners over who has a right to get the website, or how much it would cost.
Another unrelated question: I still don't see why it would be such a big deal to have both WikiSym and WikiSem, as they sound like they're related, but are unlikely to be confused. It would show more integration, which it seems WikiMedia projects as a whole lack. While I realize that WikiSym isn't connected to WikiMedia (or is it?) I think there would be little confusion, and the name sounds both professional--seminar is a good conference word that doesn't sound too geeky or beer-drinky [avoiding the pitfalls of "convention" and "meetup", respectively]--and casual, with the second word abbreviated, it appears much more laid back. I'm not married to this idea, and I still do like the name WikiMania a lot, but I also think that WikiSem would be a good choice, or alternative if it comes to that.
On 1/4/06, mysekurity mysekurity@gmail.com wrote:
Another unrelated question: I still don't see why it would be such a big deal to have both WikiSym and WikiSem, as they sound like they're related, but are unlikely to be confused. It would show more integration, which it seems WikiMedia projects as a whole lack. While I realize that WikiSym isn't connected to WikiMedia (or is it?) I think there would be little confusion,
I would be confused, for one... Perhaps the longest-lasting legacy of the wiki community will be mutually indistinguishable NaMes, confusing historians and reference users for centuries to come.
(and WikiSym [CamelCase] is not connected to Wikimedia [no CamelCase] or MediaWiki [CamelCase].)
-- SJ
On 1/4/06, SJ 2.718281828@gmail.com wrote:
I would be confused, for one... Perhaps the longest-lasting legacy of the wiki community will be mutually indistinguishable NaMes, confusing historians and reference users for centuries to come.
(and WikiSym [CamelCase] is not connected to Wikimedia [no CamelCase] or MediaWiki [CamelCase].)
Eh... I guess you're right... (and sorry about the mis camelCase capitalization), but I'm really at a loss for a good conference name, as it's too bad about Wikimania. There are way too many camelCase names out there, IMO, and as we discussed earlier, MediaWiki practically did away with the need for them, so maybe we can too. I, like Notafish, still have quite a soft spot for Wikimania, but if a suitable alternative should come along, I'm all for it. May I ask why this was not secured last year? I realize that this isn't the official name, but how come? Meanwhile, I'll still think WikiSem is different enough from WikiSym in pronounciation, but I guess I'm in the minority here.
As I mused earlier, might we try to branch off from camelCase into something a little more MediaWiki like: underscores and spaces? Would Wiki_Mania be out of the question? Or Wiki_World, for that matter?
SJ wrote:
On 1/4/06, mysekurity mysekurity@gmail.com wrote:
Another unrelated question: I still don't see why it would be such a big deal to have both WikiSym and WikiSem, as they sound like they're related, but are unlikely to be confused. It would show more integration, which it seems WikiMedia projects as a whole lack. While I realize that WikiSym isn't connected to WikiMedia (or is it?) I think there would be little confusion,
I would be confused, for one... Perhaps the longest-lasting legacy of the wiki community will be mutually indistinguishable NaMes, confusing historians and reference users for centuries to come.
(and WikiSym [CamelCase] is not connected to Wikimedia [no CamelCase] or MediaWiki [CamelCase].)
Considering that domain names are not case sensitive it really doesn't matter of the name is in camelCase. But the format is handy for the purposes of this discussion.
Ec
wikimania2006.org is not taken last I checked. CHI seems to be doing quite well using that model. I didn't find Wikimania registered as a trademark with the US, European, Australian or Canadian patent offices at least. Don't know about doing a more comprehensive international search...
Yeah... but would people know to look for wikimania2006.org over wikimania.org? I say we secure the trademark, and try to discuss with the domain owners over who has a right to get the website, or how much it would cost.
Does anyone know if they want to sell? What they want to sell for?
Getting a trademark (in the US) is a big pain and time-consuming (& pricy), but could probably be done since the conference likely had prior precendent over any other use. It could probably *not* be done before we actually need the site & name for publicity & such. IANAL, etc.
Another unrelated question: I still don't see why it would be such a big deal to have both WikiSym and WikiSem, as they sound like they're related, but are unlikely to be confused. It would show more integration, which it seems WikiMedia projects as a whole lack. While I realize that WikiSym isn't connected to WikiMedia (or is it?) I think there would be little confusion, and the name sounds both professional-- seminar is a good conference word that doesn't sound too geeky or beer-drinky [avoiding the pitfalls of "convention" and "meetup", respectively]--and casual, with the second word
To my mind, this shindig is much broader than a seminar -- I typically think of a seminar as a narrowly focussed educational gathering. WikiWhatever2006 may be educational, but it also seems like it will be pretty all-encompassing...
Anyway, to my ear Wikisym & Wikisem sound exactly the same. Dunno about other pronunciations.
phoebe
phoebe ayers wrote:
wikimania2006.org is not taken last I checked. CHI seems to be doing quite well using that model. I didn't find Wikimania registered as a trademark with the US, European, Australian or Canadian patent offices at least. Don't know about doing a more comprehensive international search...
Yeah... but would people know to look for wikimania2006.org over wikimania.org? I say we secure the trademark, and try to discuss with the domain owners over who has a right to get the website, or how much it would cost.
Does anyone know if they want to sell? What they want to sell for?
Getting a trademark (in the US) is a big pain and time-consuming (& pricy), but could probably be done since the conference likely had prior precendent over any other use. It could probably *not* be done before we actually need the site & name for publicity & such. IANAL, etc.
I did find Anthere's original statement to be cryptic and uninformative. I'm sure some of us would appreciate hearing a little more factual background to this story. The time and expense of getting a trademark will be there with any name.
Another unrelated question: I still don't see why it would be such a big deal to have both WikiSym and WikiSem, as they sound like they're related, but are unlikely to be confused. It would show more integration, which it seems WikiMedia projects as a whole lack. While I realize that WikiSym isn't connected to WikiMedia (or is it?) I think there would be little confusion, and the name sounds both professional-- seminar is a good conference word that doesn't sound too geeky or beer-drinky [avoiding the pitfalls of "convention" and "meetup", respectively]--and casual, with the second word
To my mind, this shindig is much broader than a seminar -- I typically think of a seminar as a narrowly focussed educational gathering. WikiWhatever2006 may be educational, but it also seems like it will be pretty all-encompassing...
Seriously! "WikiWhatever" is not such a bad idea. It has a certain soupçon of passive teenage defiance, without being boldly rebellious. As an encyclopedia Wikipedia pretty well deals with "whatever". It also reflects that sincerest form of humour that comes about from being able to laugh at oneself. "La Poste" in France, and "Die Bahn" are certainly good examples of generics being used to project something bigger. One time musical groups "The Band" and "The Who" did quite well with those names.
Anyway, to my ear Wikisym & Wikisem sound exactly the same. Dunno about other pronunciations.
I suspect that whether or not there is a difference is a matter of dialect. If they sound identical to you, then they probably do to others as well.
Ec
Ray Saintonge wrote:
phoebe ayers wrote:
wikimania2006.org is not taken last I checked. CHI seems to be doing quite well using that model. I didn't find Wikimania registered as a trademark with the US, European, Australian or Canadian patent offices at least. Don't know about doing a more comprehensive international search...
Yeah... but would people know to look for wikimania2006.org over wikimania.org? I say we secure the trademark, and try to discuss with the domain owners over who has a right to get the website, or how much it would cost.
Does anyone know if they want to sell? What they want to sell for?
Getting a trademark (in the US) is a big pain and time-consuming (& pricy), but could probably be done since the conference likely had prior precendent over any other use. It could probably *not* be done before we actually need the site & name for publicity & such. IANAL, etc.
I did find Anthere's original statement to be cryptic and uninformative. I'm sure some of us would appreciate hearing a little more factual background to this story. The time and expense of getting a trademark will be there with any name.
I suggested Soufron to explain it to you :-)
I will simply indicate that Jimbo, Angela and myself all three agreed it would probably be best to find another name.
Ant
Since a lot of people have expressed a fondness for Wikimania and there's already a lot of branding related to that name, is adding something to it possible? Or do we need to abandon Wikimania completely?
What about:
Wikimedia's Wikimania The Wikimedia Foundation's Wikimania The Wikimedia Foundation presents Wikimania Wikipedia Wikimania (though the conference is far more than just about Wikipedia) Wikimediamania Wikimania from the Wikimedia Foundation
j
Seriously, *THE* PREMIER conference of the human-computer interaction world is CHI. Everyone knows to look for it at chi2006.org this year. It's not a big deal that chi.org is taken by something else because the parent site is ACM anyhow. (Just like the parent site for Wikimania would be Wikimedia?)
andrea
On 1/5/06, j Baumgart jkbaumg@attglobal.net wrote:
Since a lot of people have expressed a fondness for Wikimania and there's already a lot of branding related to that name, is adding something to it possible? Or do we need to abandon Wikimania completely?
What about:
Wikimedia's Wikimania The Wikimedia Foundation's Wikimania The Wikimedia Foundation presents Wikimania Wikipedia Wikimania (though the conference is far more than just about Wikipedia) Wikimediamania Wikimania from the Wikimedia Foundation
j
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 1/5/06, Andrea Forte andrea.forte@gmail.com wrote:
Seriously, *THE* PREMIER conference of the human-computer interaction world is CHI. Everyone knows to look for it at chi2006.org this year. It's not a big deal that chi.org is taken by something else because the parent site is ACM anyhow. (Just like the parent site for Wikimania would be Wikimedia?)
andrea
I agree. It really wouldn't be too much of an issue to register Wikimania2006.org, and securing the trademark for it wouldn't be too hard, would it?
A little more background/info from Anthere would be most helpful. If there are reasons why this information should not be made public, I will respect that, but please at least dignify this with a better/more complete/less criptic response!
Thank you formally, Adam (a.k.a. Mysekurity)
mysekurity wrote:
On 1/5/06, *Andrea Forte* <andrea.forte@gmail.com mailto:andrea.forte@gmail.com> wrote:
Seriously, *THE* PREMIER conference of the human-computer interaction world is CHI. Everyone knows to look for it at chi2006.org <http://chi2006.org> this year. It's not a big deal that chi.org <http://chi.org> is taken by something else because the parent site is ACM anyhow. (Just like the parent site for Wikimania would be Wikimedia?) andreaI agree. It really wouldn't be too much of an issue to register Wikimania2006.org http://Wikimania2006.org, and securing the trademark for it wouldn't be too hard, would it?
A little more background/info from Anthere would be most helpful. If there are reasons why this information should not be made public, I will respect that, but please at least dignify this with a better/more complete/less criptic response!
Thank you formally, Adam (a.k.a. Mysekurity)
I asked Soufron to give you an explanation of why it would be best to change the name "from a legal perspective". His answer on juriwiki-l was :
"It's simply that we already lost a few major wikimania domain names. It is also likely that our german friend begun registering wikimania tm in europe. There is a lot of uncertainty around the name wikimania, when choosing a new one could help us ensure that everything will be right and fine. "
This is quite a short explanation, so I asked him if he could detail further. But the point is, I am not sure it is a good idea he explains further... I will try to explain below, but I am not a lawyer, so maybe I will say stupid things. If so, please correct me, it will allow me to understand better as well :-)
Domain names
As I understood, the Wikimania2006 and Wikimania2007 .org domains were secured yesterday *in case* (by a wikipedian, on his/her own money).
If we stick to this kind of idea (why not ?), that means the domain should be registered for many years to come (I mean, each year, one purchase, and this has to be done in advance as the more conferences we do, the highest the chances the domain is taken by someone else). But yes, it is not difficult to register a domain, nor is it very expensive (if we stick to the .org only at least).
Now, yes, the big question is "does it matter or not that we own the domain name ?" I invite the discussion on this. If someone takes all the domain names in .org, .com, .whatever before us, does that matter ?
Tm
Registering a name is not necessarily an easy business. It does not help that it should be registered in several countries (I suppose that once we are registered in USA, Europe, Canada etc... we would be somehow covered), and I presume you would all agree the tm must be protected in more than *just* the USA ? So, that implies several registrations... to do each year (in advance). Besides, registering is not "free", nor even low cost. It costs money, it costs time for the one doing the registration and it takes time to get the mark (about a year and a half at best it seems?). Will we do that every year, to secure WikimaniaXXXX ? I do not think so. Better not counting on it. Let's go one step further : what if we decide to ask the tm nevertheless and someone else oppose it ? What about the costs to fight the opposition ? What about the costs if the other asked wikimania2006 before us, and we have to oppose ?
The next good question might then be : what are the benefits of owning the tm of Wikimania2006 ? Will that be worth the costs and time spend on getting it ? Does it matter that someone else own the trademarks of say Wikimania2006 ? What are the consequences ?
And btw, if someone else own Wikimania, will we be granted Wikimania2008 ?
As you can see, there are "costs" and "benefits" to any decision, sticking to Wikimania, changing to WikimaniaXXXX every year or changing to Wikipapouasi. The benefits may be for everyone. The costs (money, time) will be solely for the Foundation.
Ant
Of course this may not have been clear, but I was suggesting registering Wikimania as the trademark and adding the year for the website. If Wikimania has an actual conflict because someone else has registered it in the European Union, that's something else.
andrea
On 1/6/06, Florence Devouard anthere@wikimedia.org wrote:
mysekurity wrote:
On 1/5/06, *Andrea Forte* <andrea.forte@gmail.com mailto:andrea.forte@gmail.com> wrote:
Seriously, *THE* PREMIER conference of the human-computer interaction world is CHI. Everyone knows to look for it at chi2006.org <http://chi2006.org> this year. It's not a big deal that chi.org <http://chi.org> is taken by something else because the parent site is ACM anyhow. (Just like the parent site for Wikimania would be Wikimedia?) andreaI agree. It really wouldn't be too much of an issue to register Wikimania2006.org http://Wikimania2006.org, and securing the trademark for it wouldn't be too hard, would it?
A little more background/info from Anthere would be most helpful. If there are reasons why this information should not be made public, I will respect that, but please at least dignify this with a better/more complete/less criptic response!
Thank you formally, Adam (a.k.a. Mysekurity)
I asked Soufron to give you an explanation of why it would be best to change the name "from a legal perspective". His answer on juriwiki-l was :
"It's simply that we already lost a few major wikimania domain names. It is also likely that our german friend begun registering wikimania tm in europe. There is a lot of uncertainty around the name wikimania, when choosing a new one could help us ensure that everything will be right and fine. "
This is quite a short explanation, so I asked him if he could detail further. But the point is, I am not sure it is a good idea he explains further... I will try to explain below, but I am not a lawyer, so maybe I will say stupid things. If so, please correct me, it will allow me to understand better as well :-)
Domain names
As I understood, the Wikimania2006 and Wikimania2007 .org domains were secured yesterday *in case* (by a wikipedian, on his/her own money).
If we stick to this kind of idea (why not ?), that means the domain should be registered for many years to come (I mean, each year, one purchase, and this has to be done in advance as the more conferences we do, the highest the chances the domain is taken by someone else). But yes, it is not difficult to register a domain, nor is it very expensive (if we stick to the .org only at least).
Now, yes, the big question is "does it matter or not that we own the domain name ?" I invite the discussion on this. If someone takes all the domain names in .org, .com, .whatever before us, does that matter ?
Tm
Registering a name is not necessarily an easy business. It does not help that it should be registered in several countries (I suppose that once we are registered in USA, Europe, Canada etc... we would be somehow covered), and I presume you would all agree the tm must be protected in more than *just* the USA ? So, that implies several registrations... to do each year (in advance). Besides, registering is not "free", nor even low cost. It costs money, it costs time for the one doing the registration and it takes time to get the mark (about a year and a half at best it seems?). Will we do that every year, to secure WikimaniaXXXX ? I do not think so. Better not counting on it. Let's go one step further : what if we decide to ask the tm nevertheless and someone else oppose it ? What about the costs to fight the opposition ? What about the costs if the other asked wikimania2006 before us, and we have to oppose ?
The next good question might then be : what are the benefits of owning the tm of Wikimania2006 ? Will that be worth the costs and time spend on getting it ? Does it matter that someone else own the trademarks of say Wikimania2006 ? What are the consequences ?
And btw, if someone else own Wikimania, will we be granted Wikimania2008 ?
As you can see, there are "costs" and "benefits" to any decision, sticking to Wikimania, changing to WikimaniaXXXX every year or changing to Wikipapouasi. The benefits may be for everyone. The costs (money, time) will be solely for the Foundation.
Ant
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Actually, from my own point of view, the wikimania trademark will not be easy to register since many people know about it today.
That means that we will certainly face oppositions and problems when registering it.
Still, we can try but it's the most difficult situation from the tm point of view. In any case, I just asked a complete overview of the wikimania tm situation, and I will receive it by Monday. Things will be clearer then.
JBS
Andrea Forte wrote:
Of course this may not have been clear, but I was suggesting registering Wikimania as the trademark and adding the year for the website. If Wikimania has an actual conflict because someone else has registered it in the European Union, that's something else.
andrea
On 1/6/06, Florence Devouard anthere@wikimedia.org wrote:
mysekurity wrote:
On 1/5/06, *Andrea Forte* <andrea.forte@gmail.com mailto:andrea.forte@gmail.com> wrote:
Seriously, *THE* PREMIER conference of the human-computer interaction world is CHI. Everyone knows to look for it at chi2006.org <http://chi2006.org> this year. It's not a big deal that chi.org <http://chi.org> is taken by something else because the parent site is ACM anyhow. (Just like the parent site for Wikimania would be Wikimedia?) andreaI agree. It really wouldn't be too much of an issue to register Wikimania2006.org http://Wikimania2006.org, and securing the trademark for it wouldn't be too hard, would it?
A little more background/info from Anthere would be most helpful. If there are reasons why this information should not be made public, I will respect that, but please at least dignify this with a better/more complete/less criptic response!
Thank you formally, Adam (a.k.a. Mysekurity)
I asked Soufron to give you an explanation of why it would be best to change the name "from a legal perspective". His answer on juriwiki-l was :
"It's simply that we already lost a few major wikimania domain names. It is also likely that our german friend begun registering wikimania tm in europe. There is a lot of uncertainty around the name wikimania, when choosing a new one could help us ensure that everything will be right and fine. "
This is quite a short explanation, so I asked him if he could detail further. But the point is, I am not sure it is a good idea he explains further... I will try to explain below, but I am not a lawyer, so maybe I will say stupid things. If so, please correct me, it will allow me to understand better as well :-)
Domain names
As I understood, the Wikimania2006 and Wikimania2007 .org domains were secured yesterday *in case* (by a wikipedian, on his/her own money).
If we stick to this kind of idea (why not ?), that means the domain should be registered for many years to come (I mean, each year, one purchase, and this has to be done in advance as the more conferences we do, the highest the chances the domain is taken by someone else). But yes, it is not difficult to register a domain, nor is it very expensive (if we stick to the .org only at least).
Now, yes, the big question is "does it matter or not that we own the domain name ?" I invite the discussion on this. If someone takes all the domain names in .org, .com, .whatever before us, does that matter ?
Tm
Registering a name is not necessarily an easy business. It does not help that it should be registered in several countries (I suppose that once we are registered in USA, Europe, Canada etc... we would be somehow covered), and I presume you would all agree the tm must be protected in more than *just* the USA ? So, that implies several registrations... to do each year (in advance). Besides, registering is not "free", nor even low cost. It costs money, it costs time for the one doing the registration and it takes time to get the mark (about a year and a half at best it seems?). Will we do that every year, to secure WikimaniaXXXX ? I do not think so. Better not counting on it. Let's go one step further : what if we decide to ask the tm nevertheless and someone else oppose it ? What about the costs to fight the opposition ? What about the costs if the other asked wikimania2006 before us, and we have to oppose ?
The next good question might then be : what are the benefits of owning the tm of Wikimania2006 ? Will that be worth the costs and time spend on getting it ? Does it matter that someone else own the trademarks of say Wikimania2006 ? What are the consequences ?
And btw, if someone else own Wikimania, will we be granted Wikimania2008 ?
As you can see, there are "costs" and "benefits" to any decision, sticking to Wikimania, changing to WikimaniaXXXX every year or changing to Wikipapouasi. The benefits may be for everyone. The costs (money, time) will be solely for the Foundation.
Ant
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Is the "many people" really very many in a legal sense? I don't know about these things at all but I imagine the vast, vast majority of people even on the internet much less in the world much less in the United States have no idea what Wikimania is, even if they may possibly have heard of Wikipedia.
As an aside, wikimania.org vs. wikimania2006.org -- if someone is looking for our Wikimania, they will see that they have the wrong site, plop what they want into google, and immediately find the correct site. That's how I cope with typosquatting and things of that nature, and a lot of other sites work that way.
FF
On 1/6/06, Jean-Baptiste Soufron jbsoufron@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, from my own point of view, the wikimania trademark will not be easy to register since many people know about it today.
That means that we will certainly face oppositions and problems when registering it.
Still, we can try but it's the most difficult situation from the tm point of view. In any case, I just asked a complete overview of the wikimania tm situation, and I will receive it by Monday. Things will be clearer then.
JBS
Andrea Forte wrote:
Of course this may not have been clear, but I was suggesting registering Wikimania as the trademark and adding the year for the website. If Wikimania has an actual conflict because someone else has registered it in the European Union, that's something else.
andrea
On 1/6/06, Florence Devouard anthere@wikimedia.org wrote:
mysekurity wrote:
On 1/5/06, *Andrea Forte* <andrea.forte@gmail.com mailto:andrea.forte@gmail.com> wrote:
Seriously, *THE* PREMIER conference of the human-computer interaction world is CHI. Everyone knows to look for it at chi2006.org <http://chi2006.org> this year. It's not a big deal that chi.org <http://chi.org> is taken by something else because the parent site is ACM anyhow. (Just like the parent site for Wikimania would be Wikimedia?) andreaI agree. It really wouldn't be too much of an issue to register Wikimania2006.org http://Wikimania2006.org, and securing the trademark for it wouldn't be too hard, would it?
A little more background/info from Anthere would be most helpful. If there are reasons why this information should not be made public, I will respect that, but please at least dignify this with a better/more complete/less criptic response!
Thank you formally, Adam (a.k.a. Mysekurity)
I asked Soufron to give you an explanation of why it would be best to change the name "from a legal perspective". His answer on juriwiki-l was :
"It's simply that we already lost a few major wikimania domain names. It is also likely that our german friend begun registering wikimania tm in europe. There is a lot of uncertainty around the name wikimania, when choosing a new one could help us ensure that everything will be right and fine. "
This is quite a short explanation, so I asked him if he could detail further. But the point is, I am not sure it is a good idea he explains further... I will try to explain below, but I am not a lawyer, so maybe I will say stupid things. If so, please correct me, it will allow me to understand better as well :-)
Domain names
As I understood, the Wikimania2006 and Wikimania2007 .org domains were secured yesterday *in case* (by a wikipedian, on his/her own money).
If we stick to this kind of idea (why not ?), that means the domain should be registered for many years to come (I mean, each year, one purchase, and this has to be done in advance as the more conferences we do, the highest the chances the domain is taken by someone else). But yes, it is not difficult to register a domain, nor is it very expensive (if we stick to the .org only at least).
Now, yes, the big question is "does it matter or not that we own the domain name ?" I invite the discussion on this. If someone takes all the domain names in .org, .com, .whatever before us, does that matter ?
Tm
Registering a name is not necessarily an easy business. It does not help that it should be registered in several countries (I suppose that once we are registered in USA, Europe, Canada etc... we would be somehow covered), and I presume you would all agree the tm must be protected in more than *just* the USA ? So, that implies several registrations... to do each year (in advance). Besides, registering is not "free", nor even low cost. It costs money, it costs time for the one doing the registration and it takes time to get the mark (about a year and a half at best it seems?). Will we do that every year, to secure WikimaniaXXXX ? I do not think so. Better not counting on it. Let's go one step further : what if we decide to ask the tm nevertheless and someone else oppose it ? What about the costs to fight the opposition ? What about the costs if the other asked wikimania2006 before us, and we have to oppose ?
The next good question might then be : what are the benefits of owning the tm of Wikimania2006 ? Will that be worth the costs and time spend on getting it ? Does it matter that someone else own the trademarks of say Wikimania2006 ? What are the consequences ?
And btw, if someone else own Wikimania, will we be granted Wikimania2008 ?
As you can see, there are "costs" and "benefits" to any decision, sticking to Wikimania, changing to WikimaniaXXXX every year or changing to Wikipapouasi. The benefits may be for everyone. The costs (money, time) will be solely for the Foundation.
Ant
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I am sorry to completely disagree :
Fastfission wrote:
Is the "many people" really very many in a legal sense? I don't know about these things at all but I imagine the vast, vast majority of people even on the internet much less in the world much less in the United States have no idea what Wikimania is, even if they may possibly have heard of Wikipedia.
Well actually there are enough people who know about wikimania to try to register the .eu domain name.
Plus if they tried to register the .eu domain name, that also mean they begun registering the trademark somehow since this is a necessary step to get the .eu
So basically, people already use it for means that are contrary to our objectives and our image. Please don't answer me it's no big deal.
Because I am sorry, but it's very big deal.
At least it means that you really would have to re-think completely about our strategy...
when some book publisher will begin editing "wikimania books" or "wikimania tshirts" and will try to shut us down because of trademark law... what will you say ?
And since our next wikimania will be at Harvard Law School... what will you do when the WMF will have to explain it was not even able to secure the domain name of its main public event?
I don't want to say that it's not possible to keep the name wikimania... but pretending that it's no big deal is not realistic!
As an aside, wikimania.org vs. wikimania2006.org -- if someone is looking for our Wikimania, they will see that they have the wrong site, plop what they want into google, and immediately find the correct site. That's how I cope with typosquatting and things of that nature, and a lot of other sites work that way.
And please, explaining that you "cope" with typosquatting is nonsense. We're talking about a manifestation that will take place at Harvard Law School and that is likely to be our main event for the year to come. Many people will come to know us through this, and many more people are going to judge us through this.
So if you want to keep the wikimania name, do it but give me solutions for these people !
And explain me why not simply call it "wikiconf", "wikitruc", "wikimeeting" or "wikiwhatever". Then, we could make a proper registration on the tm and the domain names so that we will be able to secure and keep it safe so that the community can go on using it for years?
Because that's the thing : if we fuck up with this, it's the community we're building everyday that will get fucked up with someone who will own the trademark and the domain names of the work of this community.
It's our job to make sure that this name will stay available forever for the community and that no one will ever try to make it his own.
So come on... don't explain me that people will simply use google to find the good wikimania website ! Even local French Linux Groups are better organized than this !
Jean-Baptiste Soufron WMF Legal Officer
-----Original Message----- From: wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Jean-Baptiste Soufron Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 23:15 To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Cc: Anthere; Danny; Patrick, Brad; Jimmy Wales Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania: name of a conference...
I am sorry to completely disagree :
Fastfission wrote:
Is the "many people" really very many in a legal sense? I don't know about these things at all but I imagine the vast, vast majority of people even on the internet much less in the world much less in the United States have no idea what Wikimania is, even if they may possibly have heard of Wikipedia.
Well actually there are enough people who know about wikimania to try to register the .eu domain name.
Plus if they tried to register the .eu domain name, that also mean they begun registering the trademark somehow since this is a necessary step to get the .eu
So basically, people already use it for means that are contrary to our objectives and our image. Please don't answer me it's no big deal.
Because I am sorry, but it's very big deal.
At least it means that you really would have to re-think completely about our strategy...
when some book publisher will begin editing "wikimania books" or "wikimania tshirts" and will try to shut us down because of trademark law... what will you say ?
And since our next wikimania will be at Harvard Law School... what will you do when the WMF will have to explain it was not even able to secure the domain name of its main public event?
I don't want to say that it's not possible to keep the name wikimania... but pretending that it's no big deal is not realistic!
As an aside, wikimania.org vs. wikimania2006.org -- if someone is looking for our Wikimania, they will see that they have the wrong site, plop what they want into google, and immediately find the correct site. That's how I cope with typosquatting and things of that nature, and a lot of other sites work that way.
And please, explaining that you "cope" with typosquatting is nonsense. We're talking about a manifestation that will take place at Harvard Law School and that is likely to be our main event for the year to come. Many people will come to know us through this, and many more people are going to judge us through this.
So if you want to keep the wikimania name, do it but give me solutions for these people !
And explain me why not simply call it "wikiconf", "wikitruc", "wikimeeting" or "wikiwhatever". Then, we could make a proper registration on the tm and the domain names so that we will be able to secure and keep it safe so that the community can go on using it for years?
Because that's the thing : if we fuck up with this, it's the community we're building everyday that will get fucked up with someone who will own the trademark and the domain names of the work of this community.
It's our job to make sure that this name will stay available forever for the community and that no one will ever try to make it his own.
So come on... don't explain me that people will simply use google to find the good wikimania website ! Even local French Linux Groups are better organized than this !
...and I doubt that swearing at each other is making this look very good either.
Darren.
...and I doubt that swearing at each other is making this look very good either.
Darren.
Certainly, but I beg the pardon of everyone for this : it is 6am in France and I did not yet have a chance to go to sleep.
Plus, I cannot stress out enough the fact if we need to register new names, it should be done pretty quickly to be fine by the beginning of June. Actually, I mean that we should begin the processes before the end of January. That's also why I would like this discussion to stay on the right tracks.
Jean-Baptiste Soufron wrote:
I am sorry to completely disagree :
Fastfission wrote:
Is the "many people" really very many in a legal sense? I don't know about these things at all but I imagine the vast, vast majority of people even on the internet much less in the world much less in the United States have no idea what Wikimania is, even if they may possibly have heard of Wikipedia.
Well actually there are enough people who know about wikimania to try to register the .eu domain name. Plus if they tried to register the .eu domain name, that also mean they begun registering the trademark somehow since this is a necessary step to get the .eu So basically, people already use it for means that are contrary to our objectives and our image. Please don't answer me it's no big deal. Because I am sorry, but it's very big deal.
If it's such a big deal now, why was it not a big deal when we first began using the name? Were there other important domain names that were neglected?
At least it means that you really would have to re-think completely about our strategy... when some book publisher will begin editing "wikimania books" or "wikimania tshirts" and will try to shut us down because of trademark law... what will you say ?
And what will be the effects of having the proper US registrations? ... or have these been neglected too?
And since our next wikimania will be at Harvard Law School... what will you do when the WMF will have to explain it was not even able to secure the domain name of its main public event?
Harvard is still in the United States. Why should the .eu domain or European trademarks affect that. It may be a factor for the next time that the conference is in an EU country, but not for this one. That gives us more time to sort it out.
I don't want to say that it's not possible to keep the name wikimania... but pretending that it's no big deal is not realistic!
If there's still any reasonable possibility at all, why should we be so willing to give up before the battle even starts.
As an aside, wikimania.org vs. wikimania2006.org -- if someone is looking for our Wikimania, they will see that they have the wrong site, plop what they want into google, and immediately find the correct site. That's how I cope with typosquatting and things of that nature, and a lot of other sites work that way.
And please, explaining that you "cope" with typosquatting is nonsense. We're talking about a manifestation that will take place at Harvard Law School and that is likely to be our main event for the year to come. Many people will come to know us through this, and many more people are going to judge us through this.
Including over our willingness to take a stand for something.
So if you want to keep the wikimania name, do it but give me solutions for these people !
That really depends on how far they have gone, and why they are doing it. I understand that it may be a few days before that can be answered. Clearly our objections should be formally recorded.including our history of using the name.
And explain me why not simply call it "wikiconf", "wikitruc", "wikimeeting" or "wikiwhatever". Then, we could make a proper registration on the tm and the domain names so that we will be able to secure and keep it safe so that the community can go on using it for years?
There are obviously some who would find that more convenient.
Because that's the thing : if we fuck up with this, it's the community we're building everyday that will get fucked up with someone who will own the trademark and the domain names of the work of this community.
It's our job to make sure that this name will stay available forever for the community and that no one will ever try to make it his own.
So come on... don't explain me that people will simply use google to find the good wikimania website ! Even local French Linux Groups are better organized than this !
This last part seems more like dramatic flourish.
Ec
On 1/8/06, Jean-Baptiste Soufron jbsoufron@gmail.com wrote:
I am sorry to completely disagree :
Well, okay -- as I said, I didn't realize this was a problem and was curious. I didn't realize that one had to take out a trademark to get a .eu domain and soforth.
And since our next wikimania will be at Harvard Law School... what will you do when the WMF will have to explain it was not even able to secure the domain name of its main public event?
If we are talking about .com and .org, there will never be an explanation needed since everybody knows about cybersquatting. But this is a completely separate issue in these cases.
And please, explaining that you "cope" with typosquatting is nonsense. We're talking about a manifestation that will take place at Harvard Law School and that is likely to be our main event for the year to come. Many people will come to know us through this, and many more people are going to judge us through this.
Again, I don't think people care that much about things like domain addresses. The people at Harvard Law School certainly don't. Or if they do, we can always point them to harvardlaw.com, harvardlaw.org, and lawharvard.com. Typosquatting isn't new and even computer illiterate people generally know how to cope with it.
And explain me why not simply call it "wikiconf", "wikitruc", "wikimeeting" or "wikiwhatever". Then, we could make a proper registration on the tm and the domain names so that we will be able to secure and keep it safe so that the community can go on using it for years?
I'm of course completely in favor of securing something outright if that works and the name is good. I think though that it would be better to have an awkward domain name (and blame it on the internet) than to have an awkward conference name (which everyone will blame on us).
FF
On 1/10/06, Fastfission fastfission@gmail.com wrote:
I'm of course completely in favor of securing something outright if that works and the name is good. I think though that it would be better to have an awkward domain name (and blame it on the internet) than to have an awkward conference name (which everyone will blame on us).
That is a perfect point. We're much more about the conference and things in-person than we are about the online part (in such a way that the website only suppliments the conference, and not the other way around). So what if someone gets the domain? It goes along with other issues, like for example Windows 2000 has a domain at Windows2000.com, I believe, that redirects to the subdomain of Microsoft's site (sorry for the evil empire reference, but it's what I could think of), and I think we could have the same thing here. People like myself are more likely to search using google or another search engine for something that I do not know the site for. I think it would be much the same with someone else.
Hello,
It's been a while since anyone's said anything about the proposal to change Wikimania's name. Can someone please provide an update? What's going on? I checked http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_name_discussion, but didn't see anything new or definitive.
Thanks!
j
Hi,
The proposal and the option of keeping the old name are still being discussed; keeping the old name hasn't been ruled out. Perhaps more of that discussion should touch the wiki. In the interim, 'the 2006 Wikimedia Conference' should be a safe description to use.
--SJ
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, j Baumgart wrote:
It's been a while since anyone's said anything about the proposal to change Wikimania's name. Can someone please provide an update? What's going on? I checked http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_name_discussion, but didn't see anything new or definitive.
Thanks, SJ!
j
On Jan 19, 2006, at 6:12 PM, SJ wrote:
Hi,
The proposal and the option of keeping the old name are still being discussed; keeping the old name hasn't been ruled out. Perhaps more of that discussion should touch the wiki. In the interim, 'the 2006 Wikimedia Conference' should be a safe description to use.
--SJ
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, j Baumgart wrote:
It's been a while since anyone's said anything about the proposal to change Wikimania's name. Can someone please provide an update? What's going on? I checked http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_name_discussion, but didn't see anything new or definitive.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
At 19:41 +0100 3/1/06, Anthere wrote:
Dear all,
Though most of us probably love the name Wikimania for our favorite world wide event, it is likely to be necessary to "change" it, as "securing" it (domain names, trademarks...) will cost us much.
So, along with other issues, I guess it will be necessary to brainstorm over a new name... pretty quickly.
When a collection of names is "voted" upon, or prior to deciding a final name, please check with Soufron for the availability as a trademark and for the domain name.
Cheers
Ant
__
Any suitable answers in an open forum such as this will be squatted, n'est-ce pas?
Yeah, sure you can say that the ideas for the logos are similar, but they couldn't be THAT similar. It is clear that it was copied, because there is no way in hell it could be that close. It's much easier to skew a circular object and cover up the text than it is to un-skew and make different text. I think we should ask them to provide proof first, but maybe just a cease and desist letter would be good.
But yeah, welcome! Sign up for something, or just join in the revelry!
Fastfission wrote:
Hi all -- I just signed up to this list and was looking atht e archives a bit. I noticed the discussion about the Wikimania German site, and was curious after reading this comment:
Part of their logo, however, is a distorted version of the Wikipedia
logo, which I believe is not kosher; whoever contacts them to request they change their logo should also press them to change the name of the project.
I went to the site and it did look a lot like our logo. But I found a little section on their page about themselves which talks about their logo: http://www.wikimania.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Wikimania:%C3%9Cber_Wikimani...
See the "Unser LOGO" section. My German isn't that great anymore but they basically say they got theirs from a book which came out in 2001 and that it is very sad that we picked a similar logo (if I'm not reading it wrong, they are subtlely claiming that we stole in from them).
The book: http://www.informatik.hu-berlin.de/~gutsche/ideen-werkstatt/Ssingh2.jpg
This is from 2001, our current logo didn't evolve until 2003 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Logos_and_slogans
So... yeah. Looking over the logo discussion, I don't see any evidence that our current logo was influenced by that book or the German website: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image_talk:Paullusmagnus-logo_%28small%29.png
Our progression was:
- Text on a ball
- Ball made of puzzle
- Text on puzzle
- Individual letters on puzzle
It seems like an independent visual genealogy, unless I'm missing something. Very odd. Anyway, I don't think we have a strong claim about them copying us.
So.. beyond that.. hi! Glad to be here!
FF _______________________________________________
Thanks for the information FF
Incidently, this pushes forward the fact it is very important to keep old versions or old discussions available somewhere (rather than to delete them). In case of a conflict over logo creation, we can show the different steps (and dates) we used before agreeing on the current logo.
Ant
wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org