Hoi,
I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa (effectively meaning South Africa) in 2018.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed any more light on this?
Thanks,
Chris
On 2016-07-08 10:01 AM, Chris Keating wrote:
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
Wikimania is, and always was, a community led and organized event. The WMF, as its traditional biggest sponsor[1], has a great deal of influence in the matter - but ultimately no decision power beyond "fund and resource or not".
The committee's decision has indeed taken into account the consultation you refer to - as well as the roundtable discussion on the "Future of Wikimania" that took place earlier[2]. Our evaluation, which is reflected in that resolution, is that the consultation was clearly flawed and that its conclusion does not reflect consensus - neither of the community members who organize nor of those who attend Wikimania.
-- Coren / Marc
[1] Although "underwrite" might be a better term - the WMF has pretty much shouldered the vast majority of the costs and given the most logistical support year in and year out.
[2] Where the consensus was to overwhelmingly reject that consultation's conclusion in favor or continuing with Wikimania as a yearly even given its irreplaceable role in our movement.
Thanks Marc.
So - has the WMF committed to fund a 2018 Wikimania? If they haven't, then how is one going to happen?
And while I wasn't entirely sure what to make of the WMF's consultation about the future of Wikimania, I can also see some methodological flaws in conducting a consultation among the group of people who come to the "future of Wikimania" session at Wikimania.
Regards,
Chris
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org wrote:
On 2016-07-08 10:01 AM, Chris Keating wrote:
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
Wikimania is, and always was, a community led and organized event. The WMF, as its traditional biggest sponsor[1], has a great deal of influence in the matter - but ultimately no decision power beyond "fund and resource or not".
The committee's decision has indeed taken into account the consultation you refer to - as well as the roundtable discussion on the "Future of Wikimania" that took place earlier[2]. Our evaluation, which is reflected in that resolution, is that the consultation was clearly flawed and that its conclusion does not reflect consensus - neither of the community members who organize nor of those who attend Wikimania.
-- Coren / Marc
[1] Although "underwrite" might be a better term - the WMF has pretty much shouldered the vast majority of the costs and given the most logistical support year in and year out.
[2] Where the consensus was to overwhelmingly reject that consultation's conclusion in favor or continuing with Wikimania as a yearly even given its irreplaceable role in our movement.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
There is only one body that can make funding commitments: the WMF board of trustees. However, theoretically, Wikimania doesn't have to stand or fall with WMF funding. But from what I observed, there's a broad support for this type of decision by this committee among board members.
Contrary to popular belief, july/august 2018 is still quite far from now, so lets see how things develop in the coming months.
Thanks for sharing these minutes!
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-08 16:26 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com:
Thanks Marc.
So - has the WMF committed to fund a 2018 Wikimania? If they haven't, then how is one going to happen?
And while I wasn't entirely sure what to make of the WMF's consultation about the future of Wikimania, I can also see some methodological flaws in conducting a consultation among the group of people who come to the "future of Wikimania" session at Wikimania.
Regards,
Chris
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org wrote:
On 2016-07-08 10:01 AM, Chris Keating wrote:
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
Wikimania is, and always was, a community led and organized event. The WMF, as its traditional biggest sponsor[1], has a great deal of influence in the matter - but ultimately no decision power beyond "fund and resource or not".
The committee's decision has indeed taken into account the consultation you refer to - as well as the roundtable discussion on the "Future of Wikimania" that took place earlier[2]. Our evaluation, which is reflected in that resolution, is that the consultation was clearly flawed and that its conclusion does not reflect consensus - neither of the community members who organize nor of those who attend Wikimania.
-- Coren / Marc
[1] Although "underwrite" might be a better term - the WMF has pretty much shouldered the vast majority of the costs and given the most logistical support year in and year out.
[2] Where the consensus was to overwhelmingly reject that consultation's conclusion in favor or continuing with Wikimania as a yearly even given its irreplaceable role in our movement.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 2016-07-08 10:33 AM, Lodewijk wrote:
There is only one body that can make funding commitments: the WMF board of trustees. However, theoretically, Wikimania doesn't have to stand or fall with WMF funding.
That is true, although it would certainly require reexamination of the scope of the conference. Hypothetically, the chapters may be able to take over some of the burden as well.
I suppose you could read the decision of the committee as "we'll do our best to keep one even a year as long as we are able to rather than actually attempt to only set one up every other year".
-- Coren / Marc
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
There is only one body that can make funding commitments: the WMF board of trustees.
Not quite true on a number of levels :) The Board doesn't directly make funding commitments, it approves them – and wholesale, not line by line. It would hardly change its approval of an annual budget based on how this 1% of the budget is allocated to travel+events.
The ED could make a meaningful commitment on this front. As could the broader community of potential organizers and regional organizations. For instance, a city with regional support & access to a great & inexpensive venue could commit to host a Wikimania in any year when there wasn't a suitable bid elsewhere.
Wikimania doesn't have to stand or fall with WMF funding.
Right. More specifically, if Wikimania is billed as a costly WMF line-item, organizers will plan for it and attendees will expect it (whatever that means - opulence, ticket prices, number of attendees fully subsidized by the WMF [whether via scholarship or otherwise]). If it isn't, people will plan and design the conferences differently.
Also noted in the roundtable discussion: WordPress has an interesting model with hundreds of self-funding regional meetings a year, and two international meetings, all of which are significantly lower overhead than Wikimanias but still great community events, fun & productive. The primary costs of any con are airfare and lodging. If we make sure that everyone is close to a multinational event hosted somewhere with simple travel & lodging options, whether or not they attend The Largest International Gathering (or whether indeed there is a single one) makes less of a difference.
SJ
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 7:26 AM, Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Marc.
So - has the WMF committed to fund a 2018 Wikimania? If they haven't, then how is one going to happen?
I am working on this with WMF now, as we do need to start planning for 2018 soon in order to ensure a viable team is in place, securing venues well in advance (to save $$), etc So look for something in the coming month from WMF and the Committee.
Ellie Young WMF Events Manager
And while I wasn't entirely sure what to make of the WMF's consultation about the future of Wikimania, I can also see some methodological flaws in conducting a consultation among the group of people who come to the "future of Wikimania" session at Wikimania.
Regards,
Chris
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org wrote:
On 2016-07-08 10:01 AM, Chris Keating wrote:
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
Wikimania is, and always was, a community led and organized event. The WMF, as its traditional biggest sponsor[1], has a great deal of influence in the matter - but ultimately no decision power beyond "fund and resource or not".
The committee's decision has indeed taken into account the consultation you refer to - as well as the roundtable discussion on the "Future of Wikimania" that took place earlier[2]. Our evaluation, which is reflected in that resolution, is that the consultation was clearly flawed and that its conclusion does not reflect consensus - neither of the community members who organize nor of those who attend Wikimania.
-- Coren / Marc
[1] Although "underwrite" might be a better term - the WMF has pretty much shouldered the vast majority of the costs and given the most logistical support year in and year out.
[2] Where the consensus was to overwhelmingly reject that consultation's conclusion in favor or continuing with Wikimania as a yearly even given its irreplaceable role in our movement.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
While I concur with Coren’s conclusion, I’ll try to neutrally report on the events at Wikimania which led to this result. :)
Full disclosure: I’m a fan of Wikimania being yearly, and was asked to serve on the Wikimania Committee after Esino Lario. I was also the main moderator of the Wikimania 2016 session on the “Future of Wikimania.” These views are my own, and not anything official from the committee.
Background: Many folks (I’d say a majority) who I talked to in Esino Lario early in the conference thought that the decision to do Wikimania every other year was a done deal, as a result of the IdeaLab consultation. I told them that might not necessarily be so. The vote was close, not particularly widely known, and we could still be heard. Chris Schilling from the WMF, who oversaw the Idealab consultation, sought me out specifically at the start of the conference and to my delight, said that the consultation was “just another data point,” and that it was by no means the final word on things. Obviously, this was good news to people who were interested in keeping a yearly Wikimania.
I was scheduled to moderate the “Future of Wikimania” discussion session [1] at the very end of the conference, and encouraged people to let their views be heard. It was under these conditions that we entered into the final discussion room and I asked Chris Schilling to give an opening statement to the room. Most people were happy to hear him say that it was “just another data point.” During the discussion, there was overwhelming support to keep Wikimania going every year, which is not a surprise considering this was *at* Wikimania. I encourage folks to peruse the Etherpad notes, which are quite extensive and expertly done by several folks there.
Some views I’d highlight: - Having yearly Wikimania is important to keep the momentum of the movement going, according to many - A case for cancelling yearly Wikimania was to encourage/fund regional meetups. However, there is no guarantee that those regional meetups would actually take place, or that WMF would necessarily take the money saved from Wikimania to fund them. Some folks from Asia specifically said that there is weaker linguistic, cultural and geographic synergy for an “Asian” conference like there is in Europe and Africa, which is why it has been hard to do one. - One person noted that one trip to Wikimania served the same role as several international trips to get the same benefit from meeting other Wikimedians/developers, so there are indeed cost efficiencies in having a central conference.
Thanks.
[1] https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussions/The_future_of_Wikimania [2] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Wikimania2016-discussion7b
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org wrote:
On 2016-07-08 10:01 AM, Chris Keating wrote:
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
Wikimania is, and always was, a community led and organized event. The WMF, as its traditional biggest sponsor[1], has a great deal of influence in the matter - but ultimately no decision power beyond "fund and resource or not".
The committee's decision has indeed taken into account the consultation you refer to - as well as the roundtable discussion on the "Future of Wikimania" that took place earlier[2]. Our evaluation, which is reflected in that resolution, is that the consultation was clearly flawed and that its conclusion does not reflect consensus - neither of the community members who organize nor of those who attend Wikimania.
-- Coren / Marc
[1] Although "underwrite" might be a better term - the WMF has pretty much shouldered the vast majority of the costs and given the most logistical support year in and year out.
[2] Where the consensus was to overwhelmingly reject that consultation's conclusion in favor or continuing with Wikimania as a yearly even given its irreplaceable role in our movement.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Hi everyone,
The same question was raised to the board a few days ago by chairs of Wikimedia organizations asking Foundation's board to make sure there's a comprehensive decision on this very topic.
The chairs letter wasn't public, I let them share it on meta or here if they want to :)
First step, in my opinion, is to set expectations and define the scope (in the role of the event but also in the ressources (both human and financial) we commit to the event.
Katherine is working with the staff to provide groundings.
Here is the answer I provided them with.
----
Hi chairs!
First of all, thank you with the email, the feedback is clearly useful and raises interesting point.
Now, the Wikimania discussion definitly is on the table. Living by what we said during Wikimania, we, as WMF, will make sure we end up with a clear answer to your questions but also to the different points you raise.
Wikimania is an important time in our movement, but as you said it also comes with costs and challenges that we have to adress. Katherine is going to meet in the coming days with the staff in charge of that topic to start that discussion within WMF and provide groundings for a comprehensive decision.
We will try to be as diligent as possible on that topic, but I would ask you to keep in mind that as we're in a transition phase and that might take a little more time than you could expect.
Again thank you for your email, I love the fact that he raises issues but also includes the challenges we have to take care of :)
We'll get back to you as soon as possible to continue that discussion.
Have all a really great day / night :)
Christophe
While I concur with Coren’s conclusion, I’ll try to neutrally report on the events at Wikimania which led to this result. :)
Full disclosure: I’m a fan of Wikimania being yearly, and was asked to serve on the Wikimania Committee after Esino Lario. I was also the main moderator of the Wikimania 2016 session on the “Future of Wikimania.” These views are my own, and not anything official from the committee.
Background: Many folks (I’d say a majority) who I talked to in Esino Lario early in the conference thought that the decision to do Wikimania every other year was a done deal, as a result of the IdeaLab consultation. I told them that might not necessarily be so. The vote was close, not particularly widely known, and we could still be heard. Chris Schilling from the WMF, who oversaw the Idealab consultation, sought me out specifically at the start of the conference and to my delight, said that the consultation was “just another data point,” and that it was by no means the final word on things. Obviously, this was good news to people who were interested in keeping a yearly Wikimania.
I was scheduled to moderate the “Future of Wikimania” discussion session [1] at the very end of the conference, and encouraged people to let their views be heard. It was under these conditions that we entered into the final discussion room and I asked Chris Schilling to give an opening statement to the room. Most people were happy to hear him say that it was “just another data point.” During the discussion, there was overwhelming support to keep Wikimania going every year, which is not a surprise considering this was *at* Wikimania. I encourage folks to peruse the Etherpad notes, which are quite extensive and expertly done by several folks there.
Some views I’d highlight: - Having yearly Wikimania is important to keep the momentum of the movement going, according to many - A case for cancelling yearly Wikimania was to encourage/fund regional meetups. However, there is no guarantee that those regional meetups would actually take place, or that WMF would necessarily take the money saved from Wikimania to fund them. Some folks from Asia specifically said that there is weaker linguistic, cultural and geographic synergy for an “Asian” conference like there is in Europe and Africa, which is why it has been hard to do one. - One person noted that one trip to Wikimania served the same role as several international trips to get the same benefit from meeting other Wikimedians/developers, so there are indeed cost efficiencies in having a central conference.
Thanks.
[1] https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussions/The_future_of_Wikimania [2] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Wikimania2016-discussion7b
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org wrote:
On 2016-07-08 10:01 AM, Chris Keating wrote:
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
Wikimania is, and always was, a community led and organized event. The WMF, as its traditional biggest sponsor[1], has a great deal of influence in the matter - but ultimately no decision power beyond "fund and resource or not".
The committee's decision has indeed taken into account the consultation you refer to - as well as the roundtable discussion on the "Future of Wikimania" that took place earlier[2]. Our evaluation, which is reflected in that resolution, is that the consultation was clearly flawed and that its conclusion does not reflect consensus - neither of the community members who organize nor of those who attend Wikimania.
-- Coren / Marc
[1] Although "underwrite" might be a better term - the WMF has pretty much shouldered the vast majority of the costs and given the most logistical support year in and year out.
[2] Where the consensus was to overwhelmingly reject that consultation's conclusion in favor or continuing with Wikimania as a yearly even given its irreplaceable role in our movement.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Thanks Christophe. I, for one, have had difficulty figuring out what is going on with Wikimania in regards to varying decisions in different parts of WMF and the community, so I look forward to the clarifications.
Personally I am currently neutral on the decision of whether to have annual Wikimanias, or alternate Wikimanias with years in which there is emphasis on national or regional conferences. My hunch is that some research about costs and benefits is needed so that we have reliable data about a variety of scenarios before making a decision.
Thanks again for working on this.
To the board chairs: I would be interested in seeing that letter. In the spirit of transparency, would you please publish it on Meta? As you know I am an advocate for much more transparency from WMF, and I would like for the affiliates to also to be transparent about governance matters such as this one.
Thanks,
Pine On Jul 8, 2016 19:18, "Christophe Henner" chenner@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
The same question was raised to the board a few days ago by chairs of Wikimedia organizations asking Foundation's board to make sure there's a comprehensive decision on this very topic.
The chairs letter wasn't public, I let them share it on meta or here if they want to :)
First step, in my opinion, is to set expectations and define the scope (in the role of the event but also in the ressources (both human and financial) we commit to the event.
Katherine is working with the staff to provide groundings.
Here is the answer I provided them with.
Hi chairs!
First of all, thank you with the email, the feedback is clearly useful and raises interesting point.
Now, the Wikimania discussion definitly is on the table. Living by what we said during Wikimania, we, as WMF, will make sure we end up with a clear answer to your questions but also to the different points you raise.
Wikimania is an important time in our movement, but as you said it also comes with costs and challenges that we have to adress. Katherine is going to meet in the coming days with the staff in charge of that topic to start that discussion within WMF and provide groundings for a comprehensive decision.
We will try to be as diligent as possible on that topic, but I would ask you to keep in mind that as we're in a transition phase and that might take a little more time than you could expect.
Again thank you for your email, I love the fact that he raises issues but also includes the challenges we have to take care of :)
We'll get back to you as soon as possible to continue that discussion.
Have all a really great day / night :)
Christophe
While I concur with Coren’s conclusion, I’ll try to neutrally report on the events at Wikimania which led to this result. :)
Full disclosure: I’m a fan of Wikimania being yearly, and was asked to serve on the Wikimania Committee after Esino Lario. I was also the main moderator of the Wikimania 2016 session on the “Future of Wikimania.” These views are my own, and not anything official from the committee.
Background: Many folks (I’d say a majority) who I talked to in Esino Lario early in the conference thought that the decision to do Wikimania every other year was a done deal, as a result of the IdeaLab consultation. I told them that might not necessarily be so. The vote was close, not particularly widely known, and we could still be heard. Chris Schilling from the WMF, who oversaw the Idealab consultation, sought me out specifically at the start of the conference and to my delight, said that the consultation was “just another data point,” and that it was by no means the final word on things. Obviously, this was good news to people who were interested in keeping a yearly Wikimania.
I was scheduled to moderate the “Future of Wikimania” discussion session [1] at the very end of the conference, and encouraged people to let their views be heard. It was under these conditions that we entered into the final discussion room and I asked Chris Schilling to give an opening statement to the room. Most people were happy to hear him say that it was “just another data point.” During the discussion, there was overwhelming support to keep Wikimania going every year, which is not a surprise considering this was *at* Wikimania. I encourage folks to peruse the Etherpad notes, which are quite extensive and expertly done by several folks there.
Some views I’d highlight:
- Having yearly Wikimania is important to keep the momentum of the
movement going, according to many
- A case for cancelling yearly Wikimania was to encourage/fund regional
meetups. However, there is no guarantee that those regional meetups would actually take place, or that WMF would necessarily take the money saved from Wikimania to fund them. Some folks from Asia specifically said that there is weaker linguistic, cultural and geographic synergy for an “Asian” conference like there is in Europe and Africa, which is why it has been hard to do one.
- One person noted that one trip to Wikimania served the same role as
several international trips to get the same benefit from meeting other Wikimedians/developers, so there are indeed cost efficiencies in having a central conference.
Thanks.
[1] https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussions/The_future_of_Wikimania [2] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Wikimania2016-discussion7b
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Marc-Andre marc@uberbox.org wrote:
On 2016-07-08 10:01 AM, Chris Keating wrote:
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
Wikimania is, and always was, a community led and organized event. The WMF, as its traditional biggest sponsor[1], has a great deal of influence in the matter - but ultimately no decision power beyond "fund and resource or not".
The committee's decision has indeed taken into account the consultation you refer to - as well as the roundtable discussion on the "Future of Wikimania" that took place earlier[2]. Our evaluation, which is reflected in that resolution, is that the consultation was clearly flawed and that its conclusion does not reflect consensus - neither of the community members who organize nor of those who attend Wikimania.
-- Coren / Marc
[1] Although "underwrite" might be a better term - the WMF has pretty much shouldered the vast majority of the costs and given the most logistical support year in and year out.
[2] Where the consensus was to overwhelmingly reject that consultation's conclusion in favor or continuing with Wikimania as a yearly even given its irreplaceable role in our movement.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Le 08/07/16 à 16:01, Chris Keating a écrit :
Hoi,
I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa (effectively meaning South Africa) in 2018.
Pointing out that the minutes do not say that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa. It says
"The CfP should identify the priority given for that year to Sub-Saharan Africa, noting that there is expressed interest in hosting in the Republic of South Africa. "
The difference is subtle, but there is a difference. The committee actually drafted an official announcement, which was supposed to be published quickly after the committee minutes. But we have been asked to refrain from publishing our announcement until after the WMF has been consulted on the matter.
I am happy to disclose the sentence currently drafted for our (not yet published) announcement, which is
"Considering this, the Committee has a mild preference for Sub-Saharan Africa for 2018, but is of course willing to look at proposals for hosting Wikimania 2018 in other locations. "
Florence
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed any more light on this?
Thanks,
Chris
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Thanks for the clarification, Florence. If I may ask another: the 'interest' expressed, does that refer to interest expressed by South-African Wikimedians, or by the Committee?
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-08 21:38 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard fdevouard@gmail.com:
Le 08/07/16 à 16:01, Chris Keating a écrit :
Hoi,
I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa (effectively meaning South Africa) in 2018.
Pointing out that the minutes do not say that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa. It says
"The CfP should identify the priority given for that year to Sub-Saharan Africa, noting that there is expressed interest in hosting in the Republic of South Africa. "
The difference is subtle, but there is a difference. The committee actually drafted an official announcement, which was supposed to be published quickly after the committee minutes. But we have been asked to refrain from publishing our announcement until after the WMF has been consulted on the matter.
I am happy to disclose the sentence currently drafted for our (not yet published) announcement, which is
"Considering this, the Committee has a mild preference for Sub-Saharan Africa for 2018, but is of course willing to look at proposals for hosting Wikimania 2018 in other locations. "
Florence
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed any more light on this?
Thanks,
Chris
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Oh. Good point !
The term "interest" referred to Wikimedia South Africa, which expressed interest into etc.
During Wikimania, various groups were approached by us (by Ellie). And other groups approached us. To express their interest in holding Wikimania in the future.
For example, on Sunday evening, at Pizzeria 51, a few minutes before the sky decided to fall on our heads, I was told Bangkok was interested for 2020 !
Florence
Le 08/07/16 à 21:50, Lodewijk a écrit :
Thanks for the clarification, Florence. If I may ask another: the 'interest' expressed, does that refer to interest expressed by South-African Wikimedians, or by the Committee?
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-08 21:38 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard <fdevouard@gmail.com mailto:fdevouard@gmail.com>:
Le 08/07/16 à 16:01, Chris Keating a écrit : Hoi, I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa (effectively meaning South Africa) in 2018. Pointing out that the minutes do not say that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa. It says "The CfP should identify the priority given for that year to Sub-Saharan Africa, noting that there is expressed interest in hosting in the Republic of South Africa. " The difference is subtle, but there is a difference. The committee actually drafted an official announcement, which was supposed to be published quickly after the committee minutes. But we have been asked to refrain from publishing our announcement until after the WMF has been consulted on the matter. I am happy to disclose the sentence currently drafted for our (not yet published) announcement, which is "Considering this, the Committee has a mild preference for Sub-Saharan Africa for 2018, but is of course willing to look at proposals for hosting Wikimania 2018 in other locations. " Florence https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26 Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present. I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed any more light on this? Thanks, Chris _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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I find the idea of holding Wikimania in sub-Saharan Africa quite exciting. It would potentially be a very different sort of event, and it would have the chance to leave a lasting legacy. Speaking of South Africa, though, is it unfair of me to say to that the country has a reputation for lawlessness and violent crime? Is this something the powers that be will take into consideration?
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ +44 (0) 7507 536 971 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Florence Devouard fdevouard@gmail.com wrote:
Oh. Good point !
The term "interest" referred to Wikimedia South Africa, which expressed interest into etc.
During Wikimania, various groups were approached by us (by Ellie). And other groups approached us. To express their interest in holding Wikimania in the future.
For example, on Sunday evening, at Pizzeria 51, a few minutes before the sky decided to fall on our heads, I was told Bangkok was interested for 2020 !
Florence
Le 08/07/16 à 21:50, Lodewijk a écrit :
Thanks for the clarification, Florence. If I may ask another: the 'interest' expressed, does that refer to interest expressed by South-African Wikimedians, or by the Committee?
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-08 21:38 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard <fdevouard@gmail.com mailto:fdevouard@gmail.com>:
Le 08/07/16 à 16:01, Chris Keating a écrit : Hoi, I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa(effectively meaning South Africa) in 2018.
Pointing out that the minutes do not say that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa. It says "The CfP should identify the priority given for that year to Sub-Saharan Africa, noting that there is expressed interest in hosting in the Republic of South Africa. " The difference is subtle, but there is a difference. The committee actually drafted an official announcement, which was supposed to be published quickly after the committee minutes. But we have been asked to refrain from publishing our announcement until after the WMF has been consulted on the matter. I am happy to disclose the sentence currently drafted for our (not yet published) announcement, which is "Considering this, the Committee has a mild preference for Sub-Saharan Africa for 2018, but is of course willing to look at proposals for hosting Wikimania 2018 in other locations. " Florencehttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present. I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed any more light on this? Thanks, Chris _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Attendee safety has always been, and will continue to be, a serious consideration.
I will note that Wikimania has been held in Mexico, Egypt and Israel with similar concerns for those locations. Those places all show up in the Global Peace Index list of most dangerous countries, and we found ways to hold successful conferences there. There is no guarantee that a South Africa location would be without issues, but it does show that we are not in unfamiliar territory when considering these types of risks.
Thanks. -Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 5:21 AM, Harry Mitchell hjmwiki@gmail.com wrote:
I find the idea of holding Wikimania in sub-Saharan Africa quite exciting. It would potentially be a very different sort of event, and it would have the chance to leave a lasting legacy. Speaking of South Africa, though, is it unfair of me to say to that the country has a reputation for lawlessness and violent crime? Is this something the powers that be will take into consideration?
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ +44 (0) 7507 536 971 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Florence Devouard fdevouard@gmail.com wrote:
Oh. Good point !
The term "interest" referred to Wikimedia South Africa, which expressed interest into etc.
During Wikimania, various groups were approached by us (by Ellie). And other groups approached us. To express their interest in holding Wikimania in the future.
For example, on Sunday evening, at Pizzeria 51, a few minutes before the sky decided to fall on our heads, I was told Bangkok was interested for 2020 !
Florence
Le 08/07/16 à 21:50, Lodewijk a écrit :
Thanks for the clarification, Florence. If I may ask another: the 'interest' expressed, does that refer to interest expressed by South-African Wikimedians, or by the Committee?
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-08 21:38 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard <fdevouard@gmail.com mailto:fdevouard@gmail.com>:
Le 08/07/16 à 16:01, Chris Keating a écrit : Hoi, I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa(effectively meaning South Africa) in 2018.
Pointing out that the minutes do not say that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa. It says "The CfP should identify the priority given for that year to Sub-Saharan Africa, noting that there is expressed interest in hosting in the Republic of South Africa. " The difference is subtle, but there is a difference. The committee actually drafted an official announcement, which was supposed to be published quickly after the committee minutes. But we have been asked to refrain from publishing our announcement until after the WMF has been consulted on the matter. I am happy to disclose the sentence currently drafted for our (not yet published) announcement, which is "Considering this, the Committee has a mild preference for Sub-Saharan Africa for 2018, but is of course willing to look at proposals for hosting Wikimania 2018 in other locations. " Florencehttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present. I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed any more light on this? Thanks, Chris _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Noting that Wikimedia Australia has also expressed its interest in holding Wikimania in 2018 in Perth, it has a number of significant sponsorship offers already on the table all of which had been communicated to Ellie,
the sponsorship offers includes venue fees, travel costs and other assistance amounting to several hundred thousand Australian dollars
On 9 July 2016 at 03:50, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Thanks for the clarification, Florence. If I may ask another: the 'interest' expressed, does that refer to interest expressed by South-African Wikimedians, or by the Committee?
Best, Lodewijk
2016-07-08 21:38 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard fdevouard@gmail.com:
Le 08/07/16 à 16:01, Chris Keating a écrit :
Hoi,
I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa (effectively meaning South Africa) in 2018.
Pointing out that the minutes do not say that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa. It says
"The CfP should identify the priority given for that year to Sub-Saharan Africa, noting that there is expressed interest in hosting in the Republic of South Africa. "
The difference is subtle, but there is a difference. The committee actually drafted an official announcement, which was supposed to be published quickly after the committee minutes. But we have been asked to refrain from publishing our announcement until after the WMF has been consulted on the matter.
I am happy to disclose the sentence currently drafted for our (not yet published) announcement, which is
"Considering this, the Committee has a mild preference for Sub-Saharan Africa for 2018, but is of course willing to look at proposals for hosting Wikimania 2018 in other locations. "
Florence
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed any more light on this?
Thanks,
Chris
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
So, to summarise the discussion (from Wikimania-l)
* The WMF is still coming to a view on whether it supports a 2018 Wikimania, but the issue is being considered by the Board and the ED. The WMF don't consider the results of their consultation on the matter as conclusive * The Wikimania Committee have an ambition/intention to hold a 2018 Wikimania, but don't feel this is based solely on the sample of people who showed up to the future of Wikimania session at Wikimania * A number of chapters have expressed support for Wikimania remaining an annual event, though also thinking that the programme design process needs to be improved * There is in fact some dialogue between the Wikimania Committe, the WMF board, WMF staff, and the chapters
Have I got that right?
Thanks,
Chris
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi,
I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa (effectively meaning South Africa) in 2018.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed any more light on this?
Thanks,
Chris
On 08/07/2016, Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi,
I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa (effectively meaning South Africa) in 2018.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed any more light on this?
Thanks,
Chris
cheers
On 19/07/2016, waxmiguel waxmigs2902@gmail.com wrote:
On 08/07/2016, Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi,
I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa (effectively meaning South Africa) in 2018.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed any more light on this?
Thanks,
Chris
-- waxmigs2902@gmail.com waxmiguel@mail.ru waxmiguel@bitrix24.com 0xC840F256B0F0FF9069E918d060063057AAaA6b36
On 08/07/2016, Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi,
I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa (effectively meaning South Africa) in 2018.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26
Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed any more light on this?
Thanks,
Chris
wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org