Cunctator, I do recall the mess you made over my userpage comment on the
Siegenthaler case. Stop doing something like it again.
- White Cat
On 6/27/07, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote:
"beefed up slanderous article"? You're venturing onto very shaky ground
right now. You might want to dial back the rhetoric a little.
On 6/27/07, White Cat <wikipedia.kawaii.neko(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Did you just compare George W. Bush and Essjay? :D
Morality is not a rationale of mine. The point is Essjay is not a
notable
individual to the point that consensus
established that there shouldn't
be
an article on him.
Also it is a beefed up slanderous article on an individual. Since Essjay
isn't a public figure this (the article) borderlines harassment of an
individual. I am not exactly certain of the legal ground on this but
Floridan law may have issues with this which puts the foundation at a
legal
risk. This aspect should also be investigated.
- White Cat
On 6/27/07, John Lee <johnleemk(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 6/28/07, Phil Sandifer <Snowspinner(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2007, at 11:05 AM, The Mangoe wrote:
>
> > If we think that Wikipedia is important, then Essjay's sins are
> > important. Either it will be an important crisis that we got past,
or
> > > it will be the first major outbreak of a problem we never learned
to
> > > deal with. Either way, people ten
years from now who write about
> > > Wikipedia are going to mention the incident.
> >
> > I'm skeptical. Why don't we wait ten years and add the article if
> > you're right?
> >
> > Seriously. We're the sixth Google hit on Essjay's real name, and the
> > first one related to him. For all his errors, he was a good member
of
> > the community. He wrote good articles,
and was generally a fair,
nice
> > guy. He made a mistake not on Wikipedia
but in talking to a
reporter.
> > And despite his false credentials, he
also didn't fuck those
articles
> > up with nonsense.
> >
> > I'm not OK with us being the first thing on him his future employers
> > see when they Google him. He was a kid when he made his mistakes,
and
> > we shouldn't be the ones to tar and
feather him for life over them.
>
>
> I'm uncomfortable about allowing our individual inclinations as
editors,
> even if there is good moral standing for
them, to seep into our
editing.
> To
> me, it is the same as allowing ourselves to explicitly condemn, say,
the
> Holocaust. I won't say I have the answer
to this conundrum, but I am
not
sure if
the answer has to involve imposing our own moral views, no
matter
> how correct we feel they are, on the encyclopaedia.
>
> The BLP policy is of course grounded, in a sense, in morals, but also
in
practicality. Information about a living individual's life is far more
likely to be in flux; the George W. Bush of 2000 may not be the George
W.
> Bush of 2010, and the John Lee of 2007 may not be the John Lee of
2057.
It
> makes sense to have a higher sourcing standard for claims about living
> individuals, and to take a more aggressive approach to handling
possible
> libel (especially considering legal issues).
There is no need to
involve
> issues of morality or our own personal
subjective judgment in handling
> biographies of living people, although we undoubtedly
> subconsciously/consciously have because many of us feel it is "right"
to
have a
strict BLP policy (there is nothing wrong with this provided
there
> is
> also an objective basis for our actions).
>
> I am not sure if the circumstances are quite congruent concerning the
> Essjay
> issue. I understand his youthful indiscretion, being a youth myself
and
having
made many youthful mistakes. I certainly would not want this
being
held against him in the future. But at the same
time, I can find no
basis
> for deciding the article on the [[Essjay controversy]] should be
deleted
that does
not lie in some subjective valuation of morals.
Johnleemk
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