If the moderators of this mailing list are around, would they or
anyone else subscribed to the list be able to throw up some statistics
about how much the traffic has declined over the past few years? I'm
asking because looking at the archives, I think that last month
(November 2014) was the first month since the mailing list started in
September 2001 that there were no posts to the this mailing list (the
wiki-en-l mailing list for discussion of matters related to the
Admittedly, the list has been moribund for a long time, but I'm not
sure exactly when the tipping point was reached (most meta-discussion
seems to take place either on-wiki, at meta, or on the Wikimedia-l
mailing list). What is the general view in the Wikimedia universe on
maintaining low-traffic lists like this? It might be time to discuss
what future this mailing list has.
Actually, looking at the list of moderators, how many of them are still around?
There is an important difference here. The WMF does not publicly log the IP
addresses of visitors to the site.
does however publish the IP addresses of editors who are not logged in.
I could understand the elitist claim if the WMF were more privacy conscious
of editors than readers. But it isn't, if anything the divide is a three
way one, with unregistered editors as the ones who by default have least
On 5 April 2015 at 21:18, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > I propose we run a study. We will survey random editors
> I always find it curious that we had dozens or hundreds of threads on
> having IPs in history: this worry is very elitist, at most few millions
> people ever edited.
> What about the hundreds millions users who never edited? What are *their*
> IPs being logged for? It would be rather trivial to do as the IA does:
> I'll start worrying about the millions when we have solved privacy issues
> for the billions.
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
People are made aware with each edit as an I am that their information is publicly available. What concerns me about removing IP information is that it'll remove our ability to fight spam, detect socks, and respond to emergency@ issues, unless I've missed something?
Sent from Samsung Mobile
<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Brian J Mingus <brian.mingus(a)colorado.edu> </div><div>Date:03-29-2015 4:36 PM (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: David Carson <carson63000(a)gmail.com> </div><div>Cc: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> </div><div>Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Privacy Study Looking for Volunteers </div><div>
</div>Wikipedia is set up such that if you don't take the measures mentioned in
the OP, you are dox'ing yourself. Users are not aware of this.
On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 4:33 PM, David Carson <carson63000(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> "Wikipedia:Free speech" (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_speech) is probably worth a
> It's not directly about privacy but I think it clearly covers the ground
> that Wikipedia is a project to create an online encyclopedia, not an
> experiment in radical free speech. The system is set up to facilitate that
> If you think that recording IP addresses is invasive, then you should
> probably be publishing your content on your own website, not Wikipedia.
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:10 AM, Brian J Mingus <brian.mingus(a)colorado.edu
> > wrote:
>> In general people do not read privacy policies, nor do they understand
>> IP addresses are or what you can do with them.
>> But if you recall, I simply stated that recording IP addresses is
>> And it is.
>> This is especially true when you know that your recordings are faciliating
>> the active de-anonymization of people who are editing Wikipedia. Not just
>> de-anonymization, but often public shaming.
>> For WMF, the principle of neutrality clearly trumps the principles of
>> privacy and free speech. For the NSA, substitute security for neutrality.
>> It's hypocritical.
>> Luckily, it's easy to fix. Just stuff the ip fields with random numbers
>> deal with the fallout. Stop tracking people.
>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org>
>> > In order:
>> > 1. Yes, the WMF is suing the NSA. There are a few threads/blog posts
>> > about this people here can point you to.
>> > 2. Brian: The NSA needs to store data without the permission or
>> > consent of the people generating it, sometimes through forcible
>> > interception, decryption and the introduction and maintenance of
>> > software exploits that allow them to do this but also allow any other
>> > reasonably technical nation or non-nation actor who is paying
>> > attention to exploit the same vulnerability, keeping this data for an
>> > indefinite period, with very little legal or political oversight, in
>> > order to stop terrorism, where very little evidence exists that this
>> > has helped in any way.
>> > The WMF needs to store data for a 90 day period, which is explicitly
>> > linked from every edit interface, written with the involvement of the
>> > people whose data is being stored, administered by a committee of
>> > people who come from this population of editors, and explicitly sets
>> > out what the data may or may not be used for, even within the
>> > Wikimedia Foundation, in order to stop vandalism, where multiple
>> > scientific studies have validated the hypothesis that being able to
>> > make rangeblocks and prohibit sockpuppetry is beneficial to the
>> > community we are all a part of and the wider population of readers.
>> > That's what's actually going on, here. If you thing these situations
>> > are roughly analogous, that's your prerogative. If you think the
>> > storage of this data is unnecessary, I recommend you go to your local
>> > project and explain to them that being able to checkuser potential
>> > sockpuppets or hard-block users is not needed: gaining consensus there
>> > would be a good starting point to changing this.
>> > On 29 March 2015 at 11:57, James Farrar <james.farrar(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Wikipedia is suing the NSA? Seriously?
>> > > On 28 Mar 2015 11:23, "Brian J Mingus" <brian.mingus(a)colorado.edu>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> It has worked up to now, but I'm thinking that, especially given
>> > Wikimedia
>> > >> is suing the NSA, it is no longer justifiable. If the NSA can't track
>> > >> citizens, Wikimedia shouldn't be tracking them either. Seems simple
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Francesco Ariis <fa-ml(a)ariis.it>
>> > wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 01:19:35PM -0400, Brian J Mingus wrote:
>> > >> > > I think it's rather curious that edits to Wikipedia aren't
>> > Why
>> > >> > log
>> > >> > > the IP address? Why log anything? It's invasive.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > I guess it's a sensible choice against abuse (vandalism) while
>> > >> > allowing non registered users editing rights
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > WikiEN-l mailing list
>> > >> > WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>> > >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>> > >> >
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> WikiEN-l mailing list
>> > >> WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>> > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>> > >>
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > WikiEN-l mailing list
>> > > WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>> > --
>> > Oliver Keyes
>> > Research Analyst
>> > Wikimedia Foundation
>> WikiEN-l mailing list
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