John Bradley wrote: It shows something of _your_ social skills, maturity and level of insecurity when you make personal attacks because you were reprimanded *for breaking the rules*. Please stop this - the mailing list archive is full enough as it is. Maybe you'd better use that spell checker you keep threatening the mailing list with ;) Is it really such a good idea to keep plastering your address all over the internet? Now stop spamming and get back to whatever it is you do. -- Alphax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' - C. S. Lewis _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

John Bradley wrote: When did it start and why? I'm not on the Arbcom, but calling people "stupid immature idiots" won't help your case. Talking about "invalid, illogical, unreferenced, biased claims" in articles might - attack the idea, never the person. What a person has in their user space is their concern unless it breaks policy (eg. is defamatory, illegal). Many people have pages like this as watchlists. Don't forget the disclaimer that you submitted all entries to Wikipedia under - All contributions to Wikipedia are released under the GNU Free Documentation License. The history of the mistakes you have made in the past cannot be erased, but that doesn't mean you have to make them in the future. Be polite, discuss things, never revert without talking about what you are doing and why. -- Alphax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' - C. S. Lewis _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

I think it is everyone who cares about Wikipedia as an encyclopedia rather than a social club stepped forward and be counted.

John Bradley wrote: They are too. Do you have examples of when they have done this? Which one? I'd like to see some of these violations. Sorry, can't answer that without a reference. Unfortunately tracking sockpuppets is quite difficult. Can you provide a diff? My concern about your address is about your *residential* address. Spell checkers are notoriously innaccurate. They also can't check grammar. -- Alphax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' - C. S. Lewis _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

John Bradley wrote: It is *very* rare that users are removed from the mailing list, as it (together with IRC and standard email) are the only options of communication for blocked users. Actually, I believe that they *have* tried to explain there actions - that they were acting in accordance with policy. Sorry, I'm not an expert on British geography. You could probably raise the issue on the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:UK_Wikipedians%27_notice_board]. Anyway, for cosmetic reasons saying it is near Liverpool is a lot clearer than just saying it is in Sefton (or wherever it really is) because *Liverpool is the more notable location*. A city will always outdo a borough - if it's such a problem, just add "in the [[metropolitan_borough|borough]] of [[Sefton]]" and everyone will be happy. I did. To be as polite as possible, I think you should read [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks] again. If you would like a prompt reply from a user, leave a comment on their Talk page - that's what they're there for! Next time they login, they will see "You have new messages" and investigate. The 3RR is a highly contentious issue - I don't know why - but if you feel hard done by, *politely* explain what you were doing, and take 24 hours (or however long the block is) off to think about it. Ultimately, edit warring just makes people angry and does nothing to improve Wikipedia. It harms its reputation because people will refer to it as "that thing on the internet where everyone yells at each other about what the facts are". I don't think this was an attack - "if they are acting *like* an a-h" is quite different to saying "you f-ing f-t, w-t-f are you f-ing the article for? Stupid moron". It's like the distinction between [[newbie]] and [[n00b]] - fine but discernable. BTW, what *are* you an expert in? If you don't like what someone has said, talk to them about it. Both of you might learn something, and then we get a better article out of it. Name-calling won't get anyone anywhere - it will get you less than nowhere, because people will continue to associate you with your actions long after you have taken them. It takes time to earn trust. OK then. Did you list them at [[WP:VIP]]? Anyway, take a break and when you come back, don't do *anything* that could be seen as abusive, controversial, policy breaking etc. Many users have a "blacklist" of articles they won't touch because they _know_ that they will only get into heated, non-productive edit wars. -- Alphax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' - C. S. Lewis _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Perceived continuing personal attacks, but I don't agree with the ban when dispute resolution is taking place. You're not being blatantly abusive, so I think this was probably a little over the top.

In an effort to pre-empt situations like this, I inserted the followin text on the Mailing List information page (http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l): "There are no formal rules for the mailing list. However, users are generally expected to follow good practice similar to Wikiquette. That is, users should assume good faith and be polite and constructive. Users who are extremely disruptive or uncivil may be banned from the mailing list by the administrators." For more about Wikiquette, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiquette.

I know it's probably a bad thing making up policy like this, but as I'm sure you'll agree, John, it's better to have some policy rather than none at all, as you had been complaining. Since I unilaterally made up this guideline, I welcome input from the mailing list and other administrators to help shape it into a practical policy that is acceptable to everyone.

On Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:36 AM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: Fully agreed, as you'd expect. Yours, -- James D. Forrester -- Wikimedia: [[W:en:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] Mail: james(a)jdforrester.org | jon(a)eh.org | csvla(a)dcs.warwick.ac.uk IM : (MSN) jamesdforrester(a)hotmail.com _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l