Hey everyone, Since some time now ranks are available. They are meant as a way to help manage the vast amount of information in Wikidata and make sense of them. One important point is to be able to "hide" old and wrong information using the normal and deprecated ranks. This allows us to for example only show the current leader of a country when asked for it instead of all the ones that have had this title at some point in the past. We want to move forward with making use of this now. This means a few things in particular: * The property parser function {{#property:P123}} will be changed to only return preferred values if they are available. If none are available then the normal ones will be returned. * Lua will be adapted to also by default only return preferred values if available and otherwise normal values. * Simple queries (like "give me the item with ISBN 12345678) will only return items with the value marked as preferred if available and otherwise normal values. * Complex queries will only return items with the values marked as preferred (and if not available normal) initially. Later all can be searched for explicitly as well but by default still only items with the values marked as preferred (and if not available normal) will be returned. This in essence means that people will need to start marking values as preferred and deprecated where appropriate. This change will happen within the next weeks. I don't yet know exactly when the code change will be ready. Onwards to a Wikidata that can meaningfully work with historical information \o/ Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

Am 06.03.2014 16:08, schrieb Gerard Meijssen: language. language Ranks are for statements. They do not apply to labels, descriptions, aliases or sitelinks. All labels are preferred, the non-preferred labels are called aliases. -- daniel -- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

Am 06.03.2014 16:27, schrieb Gerard Meijssen: dependent on a If the name is something that is changed, debated, or otherwise a subject of discussion, create a statement using an appropriate property. The point of having labels is precisely that they are simple. -- daniel -- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

Am 06.03.2014 16:27, schrieb Gerard Meijssen: dependent on a If the name is something that is changed, debated, or otherwise a subject of discussion, create a statement using an appropriate property. The point of having labels is precisely that they are simple. -- daniel -- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

Hoi, When data is to be shown in the context of history, the appropriate label is to be shown, is to be found. It is as complex as what we do with statements. The point is very much that when you state that when labels are not intended to convey "complex" information, the intention is debatable. It is arguably wrong. Thanks, GerardM On 6 March 2014 17:15, Daniel Kinzler &lt;daniel.kinzler(a)wikimedia.de <mailto:daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de>> wrote: Am 06.03.2014 17:12, schrieb Gerard Meijssen: will. Create a property for "official name" and make staements. Labels are there for display and search. They are not intended to convey complex information. -- daniel -- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

Hoi, So how do I indicate that up to a particular date Jakarta was called Batavia ? Muhammed Ali was called Cassius Clay ? There is no discussion about it. All there is an (potentially perceived) inability to use appropriate labels at will. Labels are not simple. Thanks, Gerard On 6 March 2014 17:07, Daniel Kinzler &lt;daniel.kinzler(a)wikimedia.de&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

Hoi, The name was Batavia at that time in any language. The issue is that when you fudge information in this way, you can not have proper queries. This is why Daniel is wrong and the notion that labels are simple needs to be revisited. It is not rare at all and it exists in many domains. This is why it is wrong, wrong, wrong. Thanks, GerardM On 6 March 2014 19:31, Joe Filceolaire &lt;filceolaire(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

At this moment there is a start of having "badges". They are at this stage basic information on the article level. It demonstrates that we CAN have information that is beyond statements. It is arguably not sufficient, an argument made in bug 40810#c38.

When Wiktionary is to be integrated, labels are what Wiktionary is about. This should be obvious, The argument is that we can leave labels for now. It requires revisiting in the not to far off future.

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Hoi, There is little point to integrating Wiktionary and the current proposal if it is unclear how that information is going to be used. The proposal for all its fancy words misses the point completely and you point it out really well: it is unclear how lexemes will interact in the UI and in search.

The current labels will one on one coincide with lexemes. I think we can agree on this.

Hoi, When you look at the current use of labels, they are used to identify items. When a statement is used on an item, it uses a combination of a property and another item. What we notice is that several not so smart choices have been made in the past that make the current use of labels problematic. I remind you of the discussion of calling an item a list when it is used an a single instance. The notion that labels on statements are not used flies in the face of it being applied in Reasonator for instance. Forget about what a structured Wiktionary will do in abstraction, it is not where we are. We are at a point where we have labels and no clue (in a Wikidata context) if and what practical benefits embedding Wiktionary will bring. It is really nice to point to "Lemon" and say that it is a standard. But as far as I am concerned it is a lemon [1] when there is no translation in how the information can be leveraged. I can appreciate that we have simple labels at this time. It will not stay that way. The alternative is that including Wiktionary in Wikidata will truly become a lemon [1]. I will do what I can to help prevent that, my ambition is that Wikidata will truly replace Omegawiki. Thanks, GerardM [1] A defective <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/defective> or inadequate<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/inadequate>itemt;item. On 10 March 2014 14:03, David Cuenca &lt;dacuetu(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

Hoi, There is little point to integrating Wiktionary and the current proposal if it is unclear how that information is going to be used.

The proposal for all its fancy words misses the point completely and you point it out really well: it is unclear how lexemes will interact in the UI and in search.

The current labels will one on one coincide with lexemes. I think we can agree on this.

Thanks, GerardM On 10 March 2014 12:43, Daniel Kinzler &lt;daniel.kinzler(a)wikimedia.de <mailto:daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de>> wrote: Am 08.03.2014 11:22, schrieb Gerard Meijssen: basic Badges are editorial information (they say somthine about an article in the Wikimedia universe), they don't say anthing about the entity itself. IF they did, they would be (part of) statements. requires This is not how Wiktionary integration is going to work. At all. Please read the proposal: <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary>. This has nothing to do with labels, precisely because we need labels to be simple. The proposal does not detail how lexemes interact with items in the UI and in search - that's still open, and that's exactly where the things you have been mentionen will have their place. That'S going to be a lot more powerful and flexible than trying to glue extra attributes to labels. -- daniel -- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l

Am 10.03.2014 15:53, schrieb P. Blissenbach: In that context - Purodha, what's your take on the Wiktionary proposal <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary>? I'm curious what you think of it. We briefly talked about this kind of model in Amsterdam last year - I hope the proposal is what you hoped for, at least roughly :)

The changes are ready for deployment now. We plan to have them go live on Wikisource and Wikivoyage on 25th of April and on Wikipedia on 27th of April.