Hello,
I have a few questions about lexicographical data. I am an experienced Wikidata editor, but have no experience with lexemes so I'm sorry if this is documented somewhere and I failed to find it.
Is it possible to create a property which groups specific forms of lexemes together into a set, as has been done with conjunctions but for...not conjunctions? If the grouped forms are forms of distinct lexemes, can the newly-created set be typed as a lexeme, or should it be classed as an item? If creating sets of forms classed as lexemes would break the lexeme data model, would it be acceptable to create a property "item of form" similar to "item of sense" in order to group forms together as sets?
Any help would be appreciated,
Crystal Clements, MLIS Science Cataloger Cataloging and Metadata Services University of Washington Libraries Box 352900 Seattle, Washington 98195 cec23@uw.edu
Hi Crystal,
Just so we are more clear on the use case for "forms of lexemes", can you give one example of some forms you wish to group together with some classification?
Thad https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/ https://calendly.com/thadguidry/
On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 5:14 PM Crystal E. Clements cec23@uw.edu wrote:
Hello,
I have a few questions about lexicographical data. I am an experienced Wikidata editor, but have no experience with lexemes so I’m sorry if this is documented somewhere and I failed to find it.
Is it possible to create a property which groups specific forms of lexemes together into a set, as has been done with conjunctions but for…not conjunctions? If the grouped forms are forms of distinct lexemes, can the newly-created set be typed as a lexeme, or should it be classed as an item? If creating sets of forms classed as lexemes would break the lexeme data model, would it be acceptable to create a property “item of form” similar to “item of sense” in order to group forms together as sets?
Any help would be appreciated,
Crystal Clements, MLIS
Science Cataloger
Cataloging and Metadata Services
University of Washington Libraries
Box 352900
Seattle, Washington 98195
cec23@uw.edu
Wikidata mailing list -- wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org/mes... To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Yes!
Trying to represent this scenario:
Hypothetically, someone [wikidata item A] uses a personal pronoun set [wikidata property A] of “She/they/theirs/herself”. Another hypothetical person [wikidata item B] uses a personal pronoun set [wikidata property A] of “He/they/his/himself”.
To say
[Wikidata item A] P6553 L484, L371 Or [wikidata item b] P6553 L485, L371
Is not correct, because these hypothetical humans only use selected forms of these personal pronoun lexemes. I am considering possibilities (not proposing any changes, just trying to figure out what’s possible in the Wikidata data model) for modeling these differently by grouping forms of lexemes within either items or lexemes for sets of pronouns.
So I’m modeling out something like:
[Lexeme set A] [wikidata property “has part”] [lexeme form 1], [lexeme form 2], etc. [wikidata item A] [wikidata property “uses personal pronoun set”] [Lexeme set A]
Or
[lexeme form 1] [wikidata property “item of form”] [wikidata item C] [lexeme form 2] [wikidata property “item of form”] [wikidata item D] [wikidata item E] has part [wikidata item C] [wikidata item E] has part [wikidata item D] [wikidata item A] [wikidata property “uses personal pronoun set”] [wikidata item E]
But am unsure of whether lexemes can be used in these ways. From: Thad Guidry thadguidry@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 6:40 PM To: Discussion list for the Wikidata project wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data
Hi Crystal,
Just so we are more clear on the use case for "forms of lexemes", can you give one example of some forms you wish to group together with some classification? Thad https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/ https://calendly.com/thadguidry/
On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 5:14 PM Crystal E. Clements <cec23@uw.edumailto:cec23@uw.edu> wrote: Hello,
I have a few questions about lexicographical data. I am an experienced Wikidata editor, but have no experience with lexemes so I’m sorry if this is documented somewhere and I failed to find it.
Is it possible to create a property which groups specific forms of lexemes together into a set, as has been done with conjunctions but for…not conjunctions? If the grouped forms are forms of distinct lexemes, can the newly-created set be typed as a lexeme, or should it be classed as an item? If creating sets of forms classed as lexemes would break the lexeme data model, would it be acceptable to create a property “item of form” similar to “item of sense” in order to group forms together as sets?
Any help would be appreciated,
Crystal Clements, MLIS Science Cataloger Cataloging and Metadata Services University of Washington Libraries Box 352900 Seattle, Washington 98195 cec23@uw.edumailto:cec23@uw.edu
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Interesting questions. The datatype for P6553 is already a Lexeme, not a Lexeme Form. So likely this is a new property proposal I guess?
Existing example: Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun -> he L485, er L41653
And what you are looking for is another new property that could take Lexeme Forms instead of just Lexemes?
Example using a new property: Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun forms -> he L485-F2, er L41653-F4
What do others think of Crystal's use case?
Thad https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/ https://calendly.com/thadguidry/
Yes, this is pretty much what I’m asking. Thanks for helping me clarify Thad!
From: Thad Guidry thadguidry@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 8:44 PM To: Discussion list for the Wikidata project wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data
Interesting questions. The datatype for P6553 is already a Lexeme, not a Lexeme Form. So likely this is a new property proposal I guess?
Existing example: Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun -> he L485, er L41653
And what you are looking for is another new property that could take Lexeme Forms instead of just Lexemes?
Example using a new property: Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun forms -> he L485-F2, er L41653-F4
What do others think of Crystal's use case? Thad https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/ https://calendly.com/thadguidry/
Hmmm,
This case seems rare and very hypothetical (did anybody ever did it?), but if there is really a need, one could already do this:
Someone <- personal pronoun P6553 -> he L485 <- qualifier : subject form P5830 -> he L485-F2
(this is what is already done on lexemes level statements when it apply only to some form and not all of them)
Cheers, Nicolas
Le jeu. 4 août 2022 à 05:45, Thad Guidry thadguidry@gmail.com a écrit :
Interesting questions. The datatype for P6553 is already a Lexeme, not a Lexeme Form. So likely this is a new property proposal I guess?
Existing example: Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun -> he L485, er L41653
And what you are looking for is another new property that could take Lexeme Forms instead of just Lexemes?
Example using a new property: Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun forms -> he L485-F2, er L41653-F4
What do others think of Crystal's use case?
Thad https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/ https://calendly.com/thadguidry/ _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list -- wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org/mes... To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Thank you, Nicolas! There is a need. I was unaware of P5830 , which allows for the kind of precision that is needed for personal pronouns.
-----Original Message----- From: Nicolas VIGNERON vigneron.nicolas@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2022 10:57 AM To: Discussion list for the Wikidata project wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikidata] Re: Questions about Lexicographical Data
Hmmm,
This case seems rare and very hypothetical (did anybody ever did it?), but if there is really a need, one could already do this:
Someone <- personal pronoun P6553 -> he L485 <- qualifier : subject form P5830 -> he L485-F2
(this is what is already done on lexemes level statements when it apply only to some form and not all of them)
Cheers, Nicolas
Le jeu. 4 août 2022 à 05:45, Thad Guidry thadguidry@gmail.com a écrit :
Interesting questions. The datatype for P6553 is already a Lexeme, not a Lexeme Form. So likely this is a new property proposal I guess?
Existing example: Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun -> he L485, er L41653
And what you are looking for is another new property that could take Lexeme Forms instead of just Lexemes?
Example using a new property: Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun forms -> he L485-F2, er L41653-F4
What do others think of Crystal's use case?
Thad https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/ https://calendly.com/thadguidry/ _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list -- wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikidata@lists.wikimedia.o rg/message/ZA6QVZMIOXIKXUZMTKX3QQ7IRKK6ZZJB/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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I would agree with Nicolas in using the qualifier. To query the "set" of pronoun forms you would just add another criteria for the P5830 qualifier using 'pq' prefix as explained Using qualifiers in Wikidata-SPARQL - Stack Overflow https://stackoverflow.com/questions/36158651/using-qualifiers-in-wikidata-sparql
Thad https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/ https://calendly.com/thadguidry/
On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 12:57 PM Nicolas VIGNERON vigneron.nicolas@gmail.com wrote:
Hmmm,
This case seems rare and very hypothetical (did anybody ever did it?), but if there is really a need, one could already do this:
Someone <- personal pronoun P6553 -> he L485 <- qualifier : subject form P5830 -> he L485-F2
(this is what is already done on lexemes level statements when it apply only to some form and not all of them)
Cheers, Nicolas
Le jeu. 4 août 2022 à 05:45, Thad Guidry thadguidry@gmail.com a écrit :
Interesting questions. The datatype for P6553 is already a Lexeme, not a Lexeme Form. So
likely this is a new property proposal I guess?
Existing example: Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun -> he L485, er L41653
And what you are looking for is another new property that could take
Lexeme Forms instead of just Lexemes?
Example using a new property: Lukas Werkmeister <- personal pronoun forms -> he L485-F2, er L41653-F4
What do others think of Crystal's use case?
Thad https://www.linkedin.com/in/thadguidry/ https://calendly.com/thadguidry/ _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list -- wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org/mes...
To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikidata mailing list -- wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org/mes... To unsubscribe send an email to wikidata-leave@lists.wikimedia.org