Hi Community !
Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage ?
I only see https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2341 which is constrained for People and not Animals or Plants.
Any discussion links about this before ?
Thanks in advance ! -Thad +ThadGuidry https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry
On 22 September 2018 at 16:52, Thad Guidry thadguidry@gmail.com wrote:
Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage ?
The nearest I can find is:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P181
"taxon range map image"
and:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1846
"distribution map"
See also:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/30#P1846
Hi Andy !
Thanks ! But, yeah both of those are not useful... because they are image based and not DATA based.
I need a property that holds location data, so that anyone can build those images and maps. This is WikiDATA.
Hmm, location data... so location with a qualifier for "native" or some such ? (any precedent here ?) But that would be flipping it around and possibly would make querying for data more difficult by map/image builders.
-Thad +ThadGuidry https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry
On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 1:02 AM Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 22 September 2018 at 16:52, Thad Guidry thadguidry@gmail.com wrote:
Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage ?
The nearest I can find is:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P181
"taxon range map image"
and:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1846
"distribution map"
See also:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/30#P1846
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure, for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved.
/Jan
Den sön 23 sep. 2018 kl 17:07 skrev Thad Guidry thadguidry@gmail.com:
Hi Andy !
Thanks ! But, yeah both of those are not useful... because they are image based and not DATA based.
I need a property that holds location data, so that anyone can build those images and maps. This is WikiDATA.
Hmm, location data... so location with a qualifier for "native" or some such ? (any precedent here ?) But that would be flipping it around and possibly would make querying for data more difficult by map/image builders.
-Thad +ThadGuidry https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry
On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 1:02 AM Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 22 September 2018 at 16:52, Thad Guidry thadguidry@gmail.com wrote:
Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage
?
The nearest I can find is:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P181
"taxon range map image"
and:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1846
"distribution map"
See also:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/30#P1846
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 17:14, Jan Ainali jan@aina.li a écrit :
Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure, for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved.
/Jan
Hi,
As a reminder, there is the possibility to « store actual geographical » with P3896 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3896 (maybe not the good property here but the datatype "geoshape" does exist and is used).
Cheers, ~nicolas
Ah thanks Nicolas !
And then I see it can be queried with https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query= ?? is that correct ?
-Thad +ThadGuidry https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry
On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 10:24 AM Nicolas VIGNERON < vigneron.nicolas@gmail.com> wrote:
Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 17:14, Jan Ainali jan@aina.li a écrit :
Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure, for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved.
/Jan
Hi,
As a reminder, there is the possibility to « store actual geographical » with P3896 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3896 (maybe not the good property here but the datatype "geoshape" does exist and is used).
Cheers, ~nicolas _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 17:31, Thad Guidry thadguidry@gmail.com a écrit :
Ah thanks Nicolas !
No problem, this possibility is not well known so I took the chance to talk about it.
And then I see it can be queried with https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query= ?? is that correct ?
Yes : https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query=SELECT%20*%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%... You can also query it in the usual SPARQL query service : https://query.wikidata.org/#%23defaultView%3AMap%0ASELECT%20%2a%20WHERE%20%7... (I remember a better query about elections in Germany or something, but I can't find it again).
Cheers, ~nicolas
Not sure if either of these would be applicable for your data, but similar to 'Indigenous to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2341' for there is a property 'Endemic to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P183' that can be applied to taxon. Or more generally, there is habitat https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2974 which seems like it can be used to specify geographic locations as well other places where an organism might live (e.g. soil, within other organisms, etc).
Laura
On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 9:31 AM Thad Guidry thadguidry@gmail.com wrote:
Ah thanks Nicolas !
And then I see it can be queried with https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query= ?? is that correct ?
-Thad +ThadGuidry https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry
On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 10:24 AM Nicolas VIGNERON < vigneron.nicolas@gmail.com> wrote:
Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 17:14, Jan Ainali jan@aina.li a écrit :
Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure, for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved.
/Jan
Hi,
As a reminder, there is the possibility to « store actual geographical » with P3896 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3896 (maybe not the good property here but the datatype "geoshape" does exist and is used).
Cheers, ~nicolas _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 18:25, Laura Soito laura.soito@gmail.com a écrit :
Not sure if either of these would be applicable for your data, but similar to 'Indigenous to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2341' for there is a property 'Endemic to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P183' that can be applied to taxon. Or more generally, there is habitat https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2974 which seems like it can be used to specify geographic locations as well other places where an organism might live (e.g. soil, within other organisms, etc).
Laura
Thanks Laura, I was looking for P183 ('endemic to') but couldn't find it. If there is a relevant item, it is the best property for this need (if I understand correctly). I did find P2974 ('habitat') but the expected value is not an area but a type of area.
An example to be more clear: P183 would the "Sahara" and P2974 would be "desert". For some organisms, it can seems a bit redundant (the "Sahara" is already indicated as a "desert") but for organism without a specific area, it's important (for instance for a human virus, the habitat is "human" and there is no area per se).
Cheers, ~nicolas
The data I am actually working with is here: http://www.xerces.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/conserving_bb.pdf#page=29 and within https://www.wildflower.org/collections/collection.php?collection=xerces_bumb... that use USDA Native status.
After searching the Property proposal archives (guided by Laura's suggestions) for "indigenous" and others, I found discussion between John Vandenberg and Felix Reimann that was sort of helpful...where they discuss "indigenous"...
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/24#WWF_ecor... https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/23#WWF_ecor... https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/24#biome
But even John and Felix are left openly pondering the best way to capture "native" status of Plants in Wikidata.
Which also leaves my question open about the best way / property to store the concepts of Native Plants (we have the opposite already being invasive to P5588 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P5588
USDA defines "native" as this and with codes: https://plants.usda.gov/faq.html#native https://plants.usda.gov/native_status_def.html
Where you often see the codes and data used on sites such as https://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=AGSC
How do folks openly discuss such "left open" questions with experts ? Do I just ask John and Felix on their Talk pages ? I'd prefer a roundtable discussion. How is that done on Wikidata ?
-Thad +ThadGuidry https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry