Is there an "indigenous to" for Plants ?

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Thad Guidry

22 Sep 2018 22 Sep '18

5:52 p.m.

Hi Community ! Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage ? I only see https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2341 which is constrained for People and not Animals or Plants. Any discussion links about this before ? Thanks in advance ! -Thad +ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry>

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Andy Mabbett

23 Sep 23 Sep

8:01 a.m.

On 22 September 2018 at 16:52, Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage ?

Thad Guidry

5:06 p.m.

Hi Andy ! Thanks ! But, yeah both of those are not useful... because they are image based and not DATA based. I need a property that holds location data, so that anyone can build those images and maps. This is WikiDATA. Hmm, location data... so location with a qualifier for "native" or some such ? (any precedent here ?) But that would be flipping it around and possibly would make querying for data more difficult by map/image builders. -Thad +ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 1:02 AM Andy Mabbett <andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:

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On 22 September 2018 at 16:52, Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage ?

The nearest I can find is: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P181 "taxon range map image" and: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1846 "distribution map" See also: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/30#P1846 -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Jan Ainali

5:13 p.m.

Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure, for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved. /Jan Den sön 23 sep. 2018 kl 17:07 skrev Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com>om>:

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On 22 September 2018 at 16:52, Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage

? The nearest I can find is: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P181 "taxon range map image" and: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1846 "distribution map" See also: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/30#P1846 -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

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Nicolas VIGNERON

5:24 p.m.

Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 17:14, Jan Ainali <jan(a)aina.li> a écrit :

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Thad Guidry

5:31 p.m.

Ah thanks Nicolas ! And then I see it can be queried with https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query= ?? is that correct ? -Thad +ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 10:24 AM Nicolas VIGNERON < vigneron.nicolas(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 17:14, Jan Ainali <jan(a)aina.li> a écrit :

Hi, As a reminder, there is the possibility to « store actual geographical » with P3896 <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3896> (maybe not the good property here but the datatype "geoshape" does exist and is used). Cheers, ~nicolas _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Nicolas VIGNERON

6:23 p.m.

Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 17:31, Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com> a écrit :

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Ah thanks Nicolas !

No problem, this possibility is not well known so I took the chance to talk about it.

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And then I see it can be queried with https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query= ?? is that correct ?

Yes : https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query=SELECT%20*%20WHERE%20{%0A%20%20%3… You can also query it in the usual SPARQL query service : https://query.wikidata.org/#%23defaultView%3AMap%0ASELECT%20%2a%20WHERE%20%… (I remember a better query about elections in Germany or something, but I can't find it again). Cheers, ~nicolas

Laura Soito

6:25 p.m.

Not sure if either of these would be applicable for your data, but similar to 'Indigenous to <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2341>' for there is a property 'Endemic to <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P183>' that can be applied to taxon. Or more generally, there is habitat <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2974> which seems like it can be used to specify geographic locations as well other places where an organism might live (e.g. soil, within other organisms, etc). Laura On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 9:31 AM Thad Guidry <thadguidry(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 17:14, Jan Ainali <jan(a)aina.li> a écrit :

_______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Nicolas VIGNERON

7:24 p.m.

Le dim. 23 sept. 2018 à 18:25, Laura Soito <laura.soito(a)gmail.com> a écrit :

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Thanks Laura, I was looking for P183 ('endemic to') but couldn't find it. If there is a relevant item, it is the best property for this need (if I understand correctly). I did find P2974 ('habitat') but the expected value is not an area but a type of area. An example to be more clear: P183 would the "Sahara" and P2974 would be "desert". For some organisms, it can seems a bit redundant (the "Sahara" is already indicated as a "desert") but for organism without a specific area, it's important (for instance for a human virus, the habitat is "human" and there is no area per se). Cheers, ~nicolas

Thad Guidry

7:39 p.m.

The data I am actually working with is here: http://www.xerces.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/conserving_bb.pdf#page=29 and within https://www.wildflower.org/collections/collection.php?collection=xerces_bum… that use USDA Native status. After searching the Property proposal archives (guided by Laura's suggestions) for "indigenous" and others, I found discussion between John Vandenberg and Felix Reimann that was sort of helpful...where they discuss "indigenous"... https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/24#WWF_eco… https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/23#WWF_eco… https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/24#biome But even John and Felix are left openly pondering the best way to capture "native" status of Plants in Wikidata. Which also leaves my question open about the best way / property to store the concepts of Native Plants (we have the opposite already being invasive to P5588 <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P5588> USDA defines "native" as this and with codes: https://plants.usda.gov/faq.html#native https://plants.usda.gov/native_status_def.html Where you often see the codes and data used on sites such as https://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=AGSC How do folks openly discuss such "left open" questions with experts ? Do I just ask John and Felix on their Talk pages ? I'd prefer a roundtable discussion. How is that done on Wikidata ? -Thad +ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry>

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Andy Mabbett
Jan Ainali
Laura Soito
Nicolas VIGNERON
Thad Guidry