Hi Wikidata-niks,
As part of the Metropolitan Museum of Art project, I am interested in facilitating more public editing of Wikidata items for artwork through external tools, including that by relative newbies who might have an interest in art history.
One basic property for artworks that is particularly suited for this field is Depicts (P180), for example saying that a particular painting depicts a particular person (or building, or mountain, or divinity, or type of clothing).
We can do this to some extent now with Listeria and its 'wdedit' option, but this requires js customization and significant wiki background on the user''s part.
I was thinking something like the Wikidata Distributed Game might be interesting and broadly accessible to the public, but that tool currently only allows multiple-choice edits, and doesn't have a text entry box option.
Would it be possible to have some WiDaR-sh tool that could fill this niche for artworks?
I think it could be of very broad usefulness and interest to art communities.
Thanks, Pharos
Can do, but this can get quite complicated. Example: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2917717#P180
There have to be "target search" (e.g. "bull"), zero to many qualifiers (some qualifier properties may be used several times in a single statement, like "applies to part"), some of these should be offered by default because they occur often ("applies to part"), with optional default values ("foreground", "right"), while allowing arbitrary values ("sky")...
Any development should also take the upcoming Commons Wikibase into account, so the code can be re-used to annotate any Commons image.
This all calls for a separate tool, rather than shoehorning it into e.g. the Distributed Game. Some planning, on-wiki, with "community buy-in" might not be too outrageous a suggestion, surely?
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 8:22 PM Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Wikidata-niks,
As part of the Metropolitan Museum of Art project, I am interested in facilitating more public editing of Wikidata items for artwork through external tools, including that by relative newbies who might have an interest in art history.
One basic property for artworks that is particularly suited for this field is Depicts (P180), for example saying that a particular painting depicts a particular person (or building, or mountain, or divinity, or type of clothing).
We can do this to some extent now with Listeria and its 'wdedit' option, but this requires js customization and significant wiki background on the user''s part.
I was thinking something like the Wikidata Distributed Game might be interesting and broadly accessible to the public, but that tool currently only allows multiple-choice edits, and doesn't have a text entry box option.
Would it be possible to have some WiDaR-sh tool that could fill this niche for artworks?
I think it could be of very broad usefulness and interest to art communities.
Thanks, Pharos _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Hi Richard,
This is a great idea, and is something I would like us to push towards in Structured Commons: easy crowd-focused ways for us to refine understanding of what is involved in a multimedia file. However, all of the precedents we have use either machine prediction, or human curated prediction (categories/infoboxes,etc) of whether or not the content is in there. Also, the further we spread these games, the more we need to think about confirmation of the "new" data that we are generating: for example, most of the crowd-sourcing strategies on Zooniverse, require a certain number of folks to affirm a decision, before they are added to a likely positive queue (https://www.zooniverse.org/). We may want to start with items that have "depicts" compatible categories on Commons that could be sorted into more specific categories -- or where the institutional descriptions have string matches.
As Magnus describes also: I don't think the structure or data model right now is very crowd-sourcing friendly at the moment: asking folks to identify what is "depicted" in an image, may solicit a lot of less than-accurate descriptions (for example, if you aren't familiar with farm equipment in 19th century france, you are likely to not know what the right language is for describing those pastoral settings, etc). The more we push this beyond folks who are wiki-savvy, the more we loose the self-filtering of folks interested in understanding our data and community model before contributing (I am also not familiar with any documentation of institution-friendly ways for monitoring batches of data that get worked on by these institutions per #2 at http://blog.hatnote.com/post/161358369742/wikicite-2017-and-the-7-features-w... ).
Thats not to say we shouldn't work on this: I just think some on-wiki consultation and design (per Magnus) would be rather important.We should also take a look at the interface/strategy used by GeneWiki: https://github.com/SuLab/genewiki . They have the best other-environment, open ecosystem for contributing to a particular domain on Wikidata.
Cheers,
Alex
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 6:31 AM, Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com wrote:
Can do, but this can get quite complicated. Example: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2917717#P180
There have to be "target search" (e.g. "bull"), zero to many qualifiers (some qualifier properties may be used several times in a single statement, like "applies to part"), some of these should be offered by default because they occur often ("applies to part"), with optional default values ("foreground", "right"), while allowing arbitrary values ("sky")...
Any development should also take the upcoming Commons Wikibase into account, so the code can be re-used to annotate any Commons image.
This all calls for a separate tool, rather than shoehorning it into e.g. the Distributed Game. Some planning, on-wiki, with "community buy-in" might not be too outrageous a suggestion, surely?
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 8:22 PM Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Wikidata-niks,
As part of the Metropolitan Museum of Art project, I am interested in facilitating more public editing of Wikidata items for artwork through external tools, including that by relative newbies who might have an interest in art history.
One basic property for artworks that is particularly suited for this field is Depicts (P180), for example saying that a particular painting depicts a particular person (or building, or mountain, or divinity, or type of clothing).
We can do this to some extent now with Listeria and its 'wdedit' option, but this requires js customization and significant wiki background on the user''s part.
I was thinking something like the Wikidata Distributed Game might be interesting and broadly accessible to the public, but that tool currently only allows multiple-choice edits, and doesn't have a text entry box option.
Would it be possible to have some WiDaR-sh tool that could fill this niche for artworks?
I think it could be of very broad usefulness and interest to art communities.
Thanks, Pharos _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
On 7 June 2017 at 14:47, Alex Stinson astinson@wikimedia.org wrote:
most of the crowd-sourcing strategies on Zooniverse, require a certain number of folks to affirm a decision, before they are added to a likely positive queue (https://www.zooniverse.org/).
Why don't we partner with Zooniverse (or a similar body)?
They are on my list of folks I want to consult with as part of Structured Commons -- definitely want to understand better how we could use their environment to describe more of our content (and what they need from that content). Does anyone have connections?
They are at Oxford, Adler Museum, U. of Portsmouth in the UK, and University of Minnesota.
Cheers,
Alex
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 11:18 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 7 June 2017 at 14:47, Alex Stinson astinson@wikimedia.org wrote:
most of the crowd-sourcing strategies on Zooniverse, require a certain number of folks to affirm a decision, before they are added to a likely positive queue (https://www.zooniverse.org/).
Why don't we partner with Zooniverse (or a similar body)?
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
I have Zooniverse connections. I’ll introduce you, Alex.
Merrilee Proffitt, Senior Program Officer OCLC Research
From: Wikidata [mailto:wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Alex Stinson Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2017 8:39 AM To: Discussion list for the Wikidata project. wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikidata] Tools for artworks and Depicts property
They are on my list of folks I want to consult with as part of Structured Commons -- definitely want to understand better how we could use their environment to describe more of our content (and what they need from that content). Does anyone have connections?
They are at Oxford, Adler Museum, U. of Portsmouth in the UK, and University of Minnesota.
Cheers,
Alex
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 11:18 AM, Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.ukmailto:andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote: On 7 June 2017 at 14:47, Alex Stinson <astinson@wikimedia.orgmailto:astinson@wikimedia.org> wrote:
most of the crowd-sourcing strategies on Zooniverse, require a certain number of folks to affirm a decision, before they are added to a likely positive queue (https://www.zooniverse.org/).
Why don't we partner with Zooniverse (or a similar body)?
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
_______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
-- Alex Stinson GLAM-Wiki Strategist Wikimedia Foundation Twitter:@glamwiki/@sadads
Learn more about how the communities behind Wikipedia, Wikidata and other Wikimedia projects partner with cultural heritage organizations: http://glamwiki.org
Merilee: Great!
I will include Richard on that conversation, because I think having a useful and tangible case study ("We have this Met collection, we want to host it on Wikimedia Commons, and receive a feed of recommended data changes to Commons/Wikidata via a Zooniverse project") that could be a good way to demonstrate how this could be useful
Cheers,
Alex
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Proffitt,Merrilee proffitm@oclc.org wrote:
I have Zooniverse connections. I’ll introduce you, Alex.
Merrilee Proffitt, Senior Program Officer OCLC Research
*From:* Wikidata [mailto:wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Alex Stinson *Sent:* Wednesday, June 07, 2017 8:39 AM *To:* Discussion list for the Wikidata project. < wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org> *Subject:* Re: [Wikidata] Tools for artworks and Depicts property
They are on my list of folks I want to consult with as part of Structured Commons -- definitely want to understand better how we could use their environment to describe more of our content (and what they need from that content). Does anyone have connections?
They are at Oxford, Adler Museum, U. of Portsmouth in the UK, and University of Minnesota.
Cheers,
Alex
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 11:18 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 7 June 2017 at 14:47, Alex Stinson astinson@wikimedia.org wrote:
most of the crowd-sourcing strategies on Zooniverse, require a certain number of folks to affirm a decision, before they are added to a likely positive queue (https://www.zooniverse.org/).
Why don't we partner with Zooniverse (or a similar body)?
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
--
Alex Stinson
GLAM-Wiki Strategist
Wikimedia Foundation
Twitter:@glamwiki/@sadads
Learn more about how the communities behind Wikipedia, Wikidata and other Wikimedia projects partner with cultural heritage organizations: http://glamwiki.org
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
I'd be interested, too, and try to enlist my colleagues at NYPL in this discussion.
*David Lowe | The New York Public Library**Specialist II, Photography Collection*
*Photographers' Identities Catalog http://pic.nypl.org*
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Alex Stinson astinson@wikimedia.org wrote:
Merilee: Great!
I will include Richard on that conversation, because I think having a useful and tangible case study ("We have this Met collection, we want to host it on Wikimedia Commons, and receive a feed of recommended data changes to Commons/Wikidata via a Zooniverse project") that could be a good way to demonstrate how this could be useful
Cheers,
Alex
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Proffitt,Merrilee proffitm@oclc.org wrote:
I have Zooniverse connections. I’ll introduce you, Alex.
Merrilee Proffitt, Senior Program Officer OCLC Research
*From:* Wikidata [mailto:wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Alex Stinson *Sent:* Wednesday, June 07, 2017 8:39 AM *To:* Discussion list for the Wikidata project. < wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org> *Subject:* Re: [Wikidata] Tools for artworks and Depicts property
They are on my list of folks I want to consult with as part of Structured Commons -- definitely want to understand better how we could use their environment to describe more of our content (and what they need from that content). Does anyone have connections?
They are at Oxford, Adler Museum, U. of Portsmouth in the UK, and University of Minnesota.
Cheers,
Alex
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 11:18 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 7 June 2017 at 14:47, Alex Stinson astinson@wikimedia.org wrote:
most of the crowd-sourcing strategies on Zooniverse, require a certain number of folks to affirm a decision, before they are added to a likely positive queue (https://www.zooniverse.org/).
Why don't we partner with Zooniverse (or a similar body)?
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
--
Alex Stinson
GLAM-Wiki Strategist
Wikimedia Foundation
Twitter:@glamwiki/@sadads
Learn more about how the communities behind Wikipedia, Wikidata and other Wikimedia projects partner with cultural heritage organizations: http://glamwiki.org
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
-- Alex Stinson GLAM-Wiki Strategist Wikimedia Foundation Twitter:@glamwiki/@sadads
Learn more about how the communities behind Wikipedia, Wikidata and other Wikimedia projects partner with cultural heritage organizations: http://glamwiki.org
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
I'd like to share a basic proposal of how this tool could work:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Wikidata_Paintbrush
Please help flesh it out with your ideas for features!
And it would be fantastic to develop connections with Zooniverse and NYPL and partners as well.
It would also be great if folks could join or "endorse" - this isn't a grant request, but I thought the IdeaLab format might be a good way to channel energies.
Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos)
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 1:58 PM, David Lowe davidlowe@nypl.org wrote:
I'd be interested, too, and try to enlist my colleagues at NYPL in this discussion.
*David Lowe | The New York Public Library**Specialist II, Photography Collection*
*Photographers' Identities Catalog http://pic.nypl.org*
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Alex Stinson astinson@wikimedia.org wrote:
Merilee: Great!
I will include Richard on that conversation, because I think having a useful and tangible case study ("We have this Met collection, we want to host it on Wikimedia Commons, and receive a feed of recommended data changes to Commons/Wikidata via a Zooniverse project") that could be a good way to demonstrate how this could be useful
Cheers,
Alex
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Proffitt,Merrilee proffitm@oclc.org wrote:
I have Zooniverse connections. I’ll introduce you, Alex.
Merrilee Proffitt, Senior Program Officer OCLC Research
*From:* Wikidata [mailto:wikidata-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Alex Stinson *Sent:* Wednesday, June 07, 2017 8:39 AM *To:* Discussion list for the Wikidata project. < wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org> *Subject:* Re: [Wikidata] Tools for artworks and Depicts property
They are on my list of folks I want to consult with as part of Structured Commons -- definitely want to understand better how we could use their environment to describe more of our content (and what they need from that content). Does anyone have connections?
They are at Oxford, Adler Museum, U. of Portsmouth in the UK, and University of Minnesota.
Cheers,
Alex
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 11:18 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 7 June 2017 at 14:47, Alex Stinson astinson@wikimedia.org wrote:
most of the crowd-sourcing strategies on Zooniverse, require a certain number of folks to affirm a decision, before they are added to a likely positive queue (https://www.zooniverse.org/).
Why don't we partner with Zooniverse (or a similar body)?
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
--
Alex Stinson
GLAM-Wiki Strategist
Wikimedia Foundation
Twitter:@glamwiki/@sadads
Learn more about how the communities behind Wikipedia, Wikidata and other Wikimedia projects partner with cultural heritage organizations: http://glamwiki.org
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
-- Alex Stinson GLAM-Wiki Strategist Wikimedia Foundation Twitter:@glamwiki/@sadads
Learn more about how the communities behind Wikipedia, Wikidata and other Wikimedia projects partner with cultural heritage organizations: http://glamwiki.org
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
Wikidata mailing list Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata