Just thinking out loud.. are we looking for actual race/ethnicity/etc data,
or is it rather that we're looking for whether someone belongs to an under
represented group in their specific situation? If it is the latter, there
may be ways to phrase the question without asking for actual demographics.
Stuart; do you have any indication for how large a portion that group is? I
am aware of public pages being potentially disguised as such, but wasn't
familiar with stories about this happening in a survey context (although it
does not sound implausible).
Best,
Lodewijk
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:39 AM Stuart A. Yeates <syeates(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Another point not touched on by other commenters
is that even if ideal
race / ethnicity question(s were developed for every country in the
world, users from some countries commonly disguise their country due
to censorship in that country, so we there would be a whole class of
systematic errors where we asked users the wrong country's
question(s).
cheers
stuart
--
...let us be heard from red core to black sky
On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 at 05:00, Isaac Johnson <isaac(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
Adding another point from Rebecca Maung who helps run the annual
Community
Insights surveys
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Insights>
but
isn't currently on this listserv so
couldn't respond directly:
This year's Community Insights survey (reporting scheduled for early
2021)
is the first that will ask Wikimedia contributors
about race and
ethnicity-- but only in certain geographies. Due to all the excellent
points made in this thread, we have never asked a race or ethnicity
question, but this year we decided to start asking locally relevant
questions where we could. This year only editors in the US and Britain
will
see a question about race or ethnicity, tailored
to their local contexts.
In the coming years, we will expand the countries and geographies that
see
a question like this, prioritizing places where
there is a larger editor
presence and local laws and norms allow such questions. We have not yet
discussed asking about religion in the Community Insights survey.
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:20 AM Isaac Johnson <isaac(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
> As pointed out by others, the highly contextualized nature of religion,
> race, and ethnicity between countries makes it very difficult to
impossible
> to craft questions that are not overly
reductive but still somewhat
> universal. Despite this challenge, understanding diversity in a way
that
> captures these aspects is obviously quite
important as they often
figure
> very strongly into power and representation
within history, media, etc.
>
> In general, if you're looking for large-scale surveys of editors, the
Meta
> category (Category:Editor surveys
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Editor_surveys>) is actually
> quite complete (same for readers
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Reader_surveys>). In
> particular, I wrote what little I could find about these topics into
this
> section of our recently published knowledge
gaps taxonomy:
>
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2008.12314.pdf#subsubsection.3.1.7
>
> The April 2011 editor survey took the approach of just asking people
how
> they felt they were different from others in
the community -- this
specific
> question is not one that I would advocate
today (asking people to
identify
> all the ways in which they may be
"outsiders" is not particularly
> welcoming) but this is also probably the style of approach (asking
people
> how well they feel represented within
Wikipedia content or editor
> community) that you'd have to take to get information on ethnicity /
race
/
> religion without writing country-specific
questions:
>
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Editor_Survey_Report_-_…
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:12 AM Stuart A. Yeates <syeates(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The ethnicity / race question is an incredibly hard question to
>> compose in an internationalised way.
>>
>> Pretty much every country in the world uses different terms and there
>> are some very confusing cases where the same term is used in different
>> countries to mean very different things (e,g, "Asian" in UK English
vs
>> New Zealand English). This is derived from varying legal definitions
>> (for example blood quantum vs one-drop laws); the history of
>> colonisation and waves of immigration to the country; along with
>> cultural differences.
>>
>> cheers
>> stuart
>> --
>> ...let us be heard from red core to black sky
>>
>> On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 at 21:55, Federico Leva (Nemo) <
nemowiki(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Su-Laine Brodsky, 21/09/20 08:19:
>> > > I’m wondering if any large-scale surveys have been done that ask
>> Wikipedia editors about their race, ethnicity, or religion?
>> >
>> > What international standards exist to phrase such questions?
>> > Denominations commonly used in surveys in one country may be
considered
>> > horrific or even illegal in
others.
>> >
>> > I see OECD considers it a difficult problem too:
>> >
>> > ----
>> >
>> > 76. Current NSOs collection practices cluster around three broad
>> > categories: 1) all OECD countries collect information on some
diversity
>> > proxies such as country of birth
(36 OECD members); 2) a small
majority,
>> > mostly Eastern European countries,
the United Kingdom and Ireland,
>> > gather additional information on race and ethnicity (16 OECD
members);
>> > and 3) only a handful of countries
in the Americas and Oceania
collect
>> > data on indigenous identity (6 OECD
members). Diversity statistics
are
>> > collected from the perspective of
either enumerating the size of the
>> > relevant populations (typically in the census) or of comparing
>> > well-being outcomes across different population groups.
>> >
>> > 77. While privacy and human rights legislation sometimes prevents
or
>> > discourages the routine collection
of diversity data, the need to
>> > improve data availability and quality is being recognised in most
>> > countries. Many countries are piloting the addition of new ethnic
>> > response options to more accurately reflect the make-up of their
>> > societies (e.g. Ireland, the United States), while Belgium is
>> > considering allowing collection of race and ethnicity data within
the
>> > restrictions imposed by the
national legal framework. Within the
>> > European Statistical System, the inclusion of more detailed
migration
>> > information is also being
considered: The Framework Regulation for
>> > Production of European Statistics on Persons and Households European
>> > foresees the incorporation of questions on the country of birth of
the
>> > respondent’s parents in the Labour
Force Surveys (from 2020), the
>> > European Health Interview Survey, the European Union Statistics on
>> > Income and Living Conditions, the Household Budget Surveys and the
>> > Community surveys on ICT usage in households and by individuals. The
>> > European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights is pursuing its Roma
and
>> > Travellers Survey to collect
comparable data in six selected Member
>> > States in 2018 (FRA, 2018[77]).
>> >
>> > ----
>> >
>> >
>>
https://www.oecd.org/officialdocuments/publicdisplaydocumentpdf/?cote=SDD/D…
>> >
>> > Federico
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
>> > Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>> >
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>>
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>
>
> --
> Isaac Johnson (he/him/his) -- Research Scientist -- Wikimedia
Foundation
--
Isaac Johnson (he/him/his) -- Research Scientist -- Wikimedia Foundation
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