I read Marie Earley's message about the Inspire campaign, and specifically about the Pinterest-related proposal. I was interested in the Pinterest proposal too! I use Pinterest for fun. As far as I know, I was the only one to endorse it (I am FeralOink on WP, Ellie Kesselman IRL).
Marie said this in her message on the GenderGap mailing list:
" If the pitch to women were "learn code by editing Wikipedia" then I think there would be a greater take up... "
Yes, I agree that there would be a lot of interest from women if that were true. However, editing Wikipedia and learning to code have nothing to do with each other. Learning Wiki syntax for editing is something that can take bona fide programmers a (brief) while to learn, as it is markup with many additional Mediawiki-specific features. More to the point, Wiki syntax isn't a programming language, nor does it closely resemble HTML or CSS, which are not programming languages either. The only people who code on Wikipedia are the Wikidata folks and those who build utilities (many in Python, I think) for whatever the toolserver is called now. Most Wikipedia editors are not going to have any interaction with these few folks, nor any means to learn the skills they have.
I'm sorry for sounding negative, but I don't want to mislead women into thinking they will learn a job skill like programming (coding) by editing Wikipedia. There are many other things one may learn by editing Wikipedia, but they aren't so easy to articulate and vary by individual.
--Ellie Kesselman (FeralOink)
You make some good points, Ellie. However, it's been my experience that even a basic knowledge of HTML helped me learn Wiki syntax. I am by no means a coder, although I am married to one. Perhaps a better way to frame it is that learning Wiki syntax can help you learn to code easier?
Christine User:Figureskatingfan
On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Ellie K myindigolife@gmail.com wrote:
I read Marie Earley's message about the Inspire campaign, and specifically about the Pinterest-related proposal. I was interested in the Pinterest proposal too! I use Pinterest for fun. As far as I know, I was the only one to endorse it (I am FeralOink on WP, Ellie Kesselman IRL).
Marie said this in her message on the GenderGap mailing list:
" If the pitch to women were "learn code by editing Wikipedia" then I think there would be a greater take up... "
Yes, I agree that there would be a lot of interest from women if that were true. However, editing Wikipedia and learning to code have nothing to do with each other. Learning Wiki syntax for editing is something that can take bona fide programmers a (brief) while to learn, as it is markup with many additional Mediawiki-specific features. More to the point, Wiki syntax isn't a programming language, nor does it closely resemble HTML or CSS, which are not programming languages either. The only people who code on Wikipedia are the Wikidata folks and those who build utilities (many in Python, I think) for whatever the toolserver is called now. Most Wikipedia editors are not going to have any interaction with these few folks, nor any means to learn the skills they have.
I'm sorry for sounding negative, but I don't want to mislead women into thinking they will learn a job skill like programming (coding) by editing Wikipedia. There are many other things one may learn by editing Wikipedia, but they aren't so easy to articulate and vary by individual.
--Ellie Kesselman (FeralOink)
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
An alternative tack is to encourage people to edit sections rather than click the edit button at the top of the page. Aside from often avoiding templates and infoboxes, a habit of editing by section will greatly reduce your risk of edit conflicts.
As for editing Wikipedia improving a marketable skill, I'm sure we have lots of editors who edit in languages other than their first language. I may have a skewed experience there because much of my editing is fixing typos, but I like to feel that one of the added benefits of my editing is that I am sometimes helping others improve their written English.
Of course there is a minimum competence level needed before you can try and write significant content in a language you are learning, so we need to be careful about the level of fluency we suggest people have before we encourage them to edit in a language.
Regards
Jonathan
On 21 Apr 2015, at 19:32, Christine Meyer christinewmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
You make some good points, Ellie. However, it's been my experience that even a basic knowledge of HTML helped me learn Wiki syntax. I am by no means a coder, although I am married to one. Perhaps a better way to frame it is that learning Wiki syntax can help you learn to code easier?
Christine User:Figureskatingfan
On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Ellie K myindigolife@gmail.com wrote: I read Marie Earley's message about the Inspire campaign, and specifically about the Pinterest-related proposal. I was interested in the Pinterest proposal too! I use Pinterest for fun. As far as I know, I was the only one to endorse it (I am FeralOink on WP, Ellie Kesselman IRL).
Marie said this in her message on the GenderGap mailing list:
"If the pitch to women were "learn code by editing Wikipedia" then I think there would be a greater take up..."
Yes, I agree that there would be a lot of interest from women if that were true. However, editing Wikipedia and learning to code have nothing to do with each other. Learning Wiki syntax for editing is something that can take bona fide programmers a (brief) while to learn, as it is markup with many additional Mediawiki-specific features. More to the point, Wiki syntax isn't a programming language, nor does it closely resemble HTML or CSS, which are not programming languages either. The only people who code on Wikipedia are the Wikidata folks and those who build utilities (many in Python, I think) for whatever the toolserver is called now. Most Wikipedia editors are not going to have any interaction with these few folks, nor any means to learn the skills they have.
I'm sorry for sounding negative, but I don't want to mislead women into thinking they will learn a job skill like programming (coding) by editing Wikipedia. There are many other things one may learn by editing Wikipedia, but they aren't so easy to articulate and vary by individual.
--Ellie Kesselman (FeralOink)
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- Christine ____________________ Christine W. Meyer christinewmeyer@gmail.com 208/310-1549 _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
i agree not coding especially with visual editor
i look at it as another tool in the box for social media outreach for archivists and librarians and digital humanists pushing content to where researchers can find it.
also broad principles of crowd sourcing, and open source software of crowd sourcing organizations use media wiki for internal wikis, and use crowd sourcing for transcription on their own site.
On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Christine Meyer christinewmeyer@gmail.com wrote:
You make some good points, Ellie. However, it's been my experience that even a basic knowledge of HTML helped me learn Wiki syntax. I am by no means a coder, although I am married to one. Perhaps a better way to frame it is that learning Wiki syntax can help you learn to code easier?
Christine User:Figureskatingfan
On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Ellie K myindigolife@gmail.com wrote:
I read Marie Earley's message about the Inspire campaign, and specifically about the Pinterest-related proposal. I was interested in the Pinterest proposal too! I use Pinterest for fun. As far as I know, I was the only one to endorse it (I am FeralOink on WP, Ellie Kesselman IRL).
Marie said this in her message on the GenderGap mailing list:
" If the pitch to women were "learn code by editing Wikipedia" then I think there would be a greater take up... "
Yes, I agree that there would be a lot of interest from women if that were true. However, editing Wikipedia and learning to code have nothing to do with each other. Learning Wiki syntax for editing is something that can take bona fide programmers a (brief) while to learn, as it is markup with many additional Mediawiki-specific features. More to the point, Wiki syntax isn't a programming language, nor does it closely resemble HTML or CSS, which are not programming languages either. The only people who code on Wikipedia are the Wikidata folks and those who build utilities (many in Python, I think) for whatever the toolserver is called now. Most Wikipedia editors are not going to have any interaction with these few folks, nor any means to learn the skills they have.
I'm sorry for sounding negative, but I don't want to mislead women into thinking they will learn a job skill like programming (coding) by editing Wikipedia. There are many other things one may learn by editing Wikipedia, but they aren't so easy to articulate and vary by individual.
--Ellie Kesselman (FeralOink)
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- Christine ____________________ Christine W. Meyer christinewmeyer@gmail.com 208/310-1549
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I have my preferences set to have a section edit link at the top of the page, so I can edit introductions. This often includes templates and infoboxes.
From, Emily
On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:26 PM, J Hayes slowking4@gmail.com wrote:
i agree not coding especially with visual editor
i look at it as another tool in the box for social media outreach for archivists and librarians and digital humanists pushing content to where researchers can find it.
also broad principles of crowd sourcing, and open source software of crowd sourcing organizations use media wiki for internal wikis, and use crowd sourcing for transcription on their own site.
On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Christine Meyer < christinewmeyer@gmail.com> wrote:
You make some good points, Ellie. However, it's been my experience that even a basic knowledge of HTML helped me learn Wiki syntax. I am by no means a coder, although I am married to one. Perhaps a better way to frame it is that learning Wiki syntax can help you learn to code easier?
Christine User:Figureskatingfan
On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Ellie K myindigolife@gmail.com wrote:
I read Marie Earley's message about the Inspire campaign, and specifically about the Pinterest-related proposal. I was interested in the Pinterest proposal too! I use Pinterest for fun. As far as I know, I was the only one to endorse it (I am FeralOink on WP, Ellie Kesselman IRL).
Marie said this in her message on the GenderGap mailing list:
" If the pitch to women were "learn code by editing Wikipedia" then I think there would be a greater take up... "
Yes, I agree that there would be a lot of interest from women if that were true. However, editing Wikipedia and learning to code have nothing to do with each other. Learning Wiki syntax for editing is something that can take bona fide programmers a (brief) while to learn, as it is markup with many additional Mediawiki-specific features. More to the point, Wiki syntax isn't a programming language, nor does it closely resemble HTML or CSS, which are not programming languages either. The only people who code on Wikipedia are the Wikidata folks and those who build utilities (many in Python, I think) for whatever the toolserver is called now. Most Wikipedia editors are not going to have any interaction with these few folks, nor any means to learn the skills they have.
I'm sorry for sounding negative, but I don't want to mislead women into thinking they will learn a job skill like programming (coding) by editing Wikipedia. There are many other things one may learn by editing Wikipedia, but they aren't so easy to articulate and vary by individual.
--Ellie Kesselman (FeralOink)
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- Christine ____________________ Christine W. Meyer christinewmeyer@gmail.com 208/310-1549
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap