Hey all,
Apologies if this isn't the appropriate list/discussion to post to; I learned a lot by following the last BLP discussion, so I'm hoping to get some advice here. It's a question that as a technology consultant I'm asked a lot, and I don't have the greatest answer...
I have a friend & colleague, a popular young NYC feminist, who's got a Wikipedia page. She's often been the subject of multiple troll/flame/stalking/etc wars, online and off, for many years now-- she was a favorite target of Anon and 4chan/b/ at one time, to give you an idea. Her page is rather sparse, but often people swing by and add inflammatory and other negative material to it. Since she's not *that* well known, her page isn't watched/edited by enough people to keep that in check, and she's often left frustrated that this material figures so prominently in her profile.
I told her the best thing for her to do is find people in her community who can add more biographical information and really flesh out her page, so that anything negative has at least more balance to it. Since her community is mostly women, we butt up against the gendergap issue... there just aren't that many women (esp feminists) who are into this work. She's asked on multiple occasions if I or other consultants can be paid edit the page for her, but I advised that this not kosher in the community.
So, she's feeling extremely stuck. She's not supposed to edit her own page, she doesn't have a strong enough community to maintain her page, and she can't pay anyone to do it. What to do? I understand, and she understands, that negativity is just part of the Wikipedia world; but having it be so prominent, and most of it being inflammatory, is just... ugh. So much of her work has been extremely positive and productive, I just hate to see her being recorded in history this way.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
dz
-=-=-=-=- Deanna Zandt deanna@deannazandt.com Site: http://www.deannazandt.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/randomdeanna Facebook: Public: http://facebook.com/deannazandt Facebook: Personal: http://facebook.com/deannaz
Author: Share This! How You Will Change the World with Social Networking, Berrett-Koehler, June 2010 http://www.sharethischange.com/
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." -- Oscar Wilde
Hi Deanna,
This is a great question, and something that comes up a lot. There's lots that can be said, but I think the best piece of advice is this: it is NOT prohibited for her to edit her own biography. The "conflict of interest" guideline is just that..a guideline, not policy.
Of course it's a delicate area, and the way she comports herself will have a lot to do with how influential she is. It would probably be a good idea for her to explore Wikipedia editing elsewhere a little before tackling stuff on her own page, to get a feel for how things go.
But if anybody tells her she simply *can't* edit the page, they're flat-out wrong. I would highly recommend she clearly disclose who she is, and put her energy more into removing poorly sourced information (rather than writing original material). Writing original material is not entirely off-limits either, but it's more likely to run into resistance.
Hope this helps. I've done a lot of work in this area, with both people who were successful and others who were not; so please feel free to contact me on- or off-list if you want to discuss further.
-Pete
On May 11, 2011, at 9:58 AM, Deanna Zandt wrote:
Hey all,
Apologies if this isn't the appropriate list/discussion to post to; I learned a lot by following the last BLP discussion, so I'm hoping to get some advice here. It's a question that as a technology consultant I'm asked a lot, and I don't have the greatest answer...
I have a friend & colleague, a popular young NYC feminist, who's got a Wikipedia page. She's often been the subject of multiple troll/flame/stalking/etc wars, online and off, for many years now-- she was a favorite target of Anon and 4chan/b/ at one time, to give you an idea. Her page is rather sparse, but often people swing by and add inflammatory and other negative material to it. Since she's not *that* well known, her page isn't watched/edited by enough people to keep that in check, and she's often left frustrated that this material figures so prominently in her profile.
I told her the best thing for her to do is find people in her community who can add more biographical information and really flesh out her page, so that anything negative has at least more balance to it. Since her community is mostly women, we butt up against the gendergap issue... there just aren't that many women (esp feminists) who are into this work. She's asked on multiple occasions if I or other consultants can be paid edit the page for her, but I advised that this not kosher in the community.
So, she's feeling extremely stuck. She's not supposed to edit her own page, she doesn't have a strong enough community to maintain her page, and she can't pay anyone to do it. What to do? I understand, and she understands, that negativity is just part of the Wikipedia world; but having it be so prominent, and most of it being inflammatory, is just... ugh. So much of her work has been extremely positive and productive, I just hate to see her being recorded in history this way.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
dz
-=-=-=-=- Deanna Zandt deanna@deannazandt.com Site: http://www.deannazandt.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/randomdeanna Facebook: Public: http://facebook.com/deannazandt Facebook: Personal: http://facebook.com/deannaz
Author: Share This! How You Will Change the World with Social Networking, Berrett-Koehler, June 2010 http://www.sharethischange.com/
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." -- Oscar Wilde
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On May 11, 2011, at 9:58 AM, Deanna Zandt wrote: Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Hey Deanna,
It's a tough problem. Your friend is right -- Wikipedia biographies of people who are only marginally famous/notable (as opposed to, like, Barack Obama) are among our lowest-quality articles, and the most vulnerable to biased editing.
Here's a page that may have some useful information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FAQ/Article_subjects
It might not add anything to what you're getting here -- you are getting good, specific info here from people with lots of experience in this area. But it'll lay out the basics at a high level, and so it might be useful.
Thanks, Sue
Hey all,
Apologies if this isn't the appropriate list/discussion to post to; I learned a lot by following the last BLP discussion, so I'm hoping to get some advice here. It's a question that as a technology consultant I'm asked a lot, and I don't have the greatest answer...
I have a friend & colleague, a popular young NYC feminist, who's got a Wikipedia page. She's often been the subject of multiple troll/flame/stalking/etc wars, online and off, for many years now-- she was a favorite target of Anon and 4chan/b/ at one time, to give you an idea. Her page is rather sparse, but often people swing by and add inflammatory and other negative material to it. Since she's not *that* well known, her page isn't watched/edited by enough people to keep that in check, and she's often left frustrated that this material figures so prominently in her profile.
I told her the best thing for her to do is find people in her community who can add more biographical information and really flesh out her page, so that anything negative has at least more balance to it. Since her community is mostly women, we butt up against the gendergap issue... there just aren't that many women (esp feminists) who are into this work. She's asked on multiple occasions if I or other consultants can be paid edit the page for her, but I advised that this not kosher in the community.
So, she's feeling extremely stuck. She's not supposed to edit her own page, she doesn't have a strong enough community to maintain her page, and she can't pay anyone to do it. What to do? I understand, and she understands, that negativity is just part of the Wikipedia world; but having it be so prominent, and most of it being inflammatory, is just... ugh. So much of her work has been extremely positive and productive, I just hate to see her being recorded in history this way.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
dz
Not off topic at all. The page can be protected by any administrator, fully or partially as the situation may require, likewise any administrator can remove BLP violations from the article's editing history, and oversighters can suppress most serious problems from the view of even the administrators, email User:Oversight
She can edit her own page with respect to plain error, or to remove obvious BLP problem, as can feminist friends, or indeed anyone who notices a problem. And she, or other concerned users can bring up problems on the talk page of the article.
There is a sense here that because she is a notable feminist that using the usual techniques of asking the general community for help would be ineffective; that assumption is both false and untested.
However, not knowing who she is, or the nature of the problem, makes assistance impossible.
Fred
Hi Deanna, There is some basic advice for people wishing to edit (or complain about) their ownbiographies here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notable_person_survival_kit Otherwise, drop me or some of the established women editors on this list a private note identifying the article, along with some sources that could be used to balance the article. Andreas
--- On Wed, 11/5/11, Deanna Zandt deanna@deannazandt.com wrote:
From: Deanna Zandt deanna@deannazandt.com Subject: [Gendergap] Advice for BLP situation (possibly off-topic) To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects" gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011, 17:58
Hey all, Apologies if this isn't the appropriate list/discussion to post to; I learned a lot by following the last BLP discussion, so I'm hoping to get some advice here. It's a question that as a technology consultant I'm asked a lot, and I don't have the greatest answer... I have a friend & colleague, a popular young NYC feminist, who's got a Wikipedia page. She's often been the subject of multiple troll/flame/stalking/etc wars, online and off, for many years now-- she was a favorite target of Anon and 4chan/b/ at one time, to give you an idea. Her page is rather sparse, but often people swing by and add inflammatory and other negative material to it. Since she's not *that* well known, her page isn't watched/edited by enough people to keep that in check, and she's often left frustrated that this material figures so prominently in her profile. I told her the best thing for her to do is find people in her community who can add more biographical information and really flesh out her page, so that anything negative has at least more balance to it. Since her community is mostly women, we butt up against the gendergap issue... there just aren't that many women (esp feminists) who are into this work. She's asked on multiple occasions if I or other consultants can be paid edit the page for her, but I advised that this not kosher in the community. So, she's feeling extremely stuck. She's not supposed to edit her own page, she doesn't have a strong enough community to maintain her page, and she can't pay anyone to do it. What to do? I understand, and she understands, that negativity is just part of the Wikipedia world; but having it be so prominent, and most of it being inflammatory, is just... ugh. So much of her work has been extremely positive and productive, I just hate to see her being recorded in history this way. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
dz
-=-=-=-=-Deanna Zandtdeanna@deannazandt.comSite: http://www.deannazandt.com/Twitter: http://twitter.com/randomdeannaFacebook: Public: http://facebook.com/deannazandtFacebook: Personal: http://facebook.com/deannaz Author: Share This! How You Will Change the World with Social Networking, Berrett-Koehler, June 2010http://www.sharethischange.com/ "Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." -- Oscar Wilde
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_______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Hi Deanna, There is some basic advice for people wishing to edit (or complain about) their ownbiographies here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notable_person_survival_kit Otherwise, drop me or some of the established women editors on this list a private note identifying the article, along with some sources that could be used to balance the article. Andreas
Yes, I keep forgetting this is a publicly accessible list. Please drop me a note if you want me to work on the problem, or use Wikipedia mail to User:Oversight if the problem needs immediate attention.
Fred
--- On Wed, 11/5/11, Deanna Zandt deanna@deannazandt.com wrote:
From: Deanna Zandt deanna@deannazandt.com Subject: [Gendergap] Advice for BLP situation (possibly off-topic) To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects" gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011, 17:58
Hey all, Apologies if this isn't the appropriate list/discussion to post to; I learned a lot by following the last BLP discussion, so I'm hoping to get some advice here. It's a question that as a technology consultant I'm asked a lot, and I don't have the greatest answer... I have a friend & colleague, a popular young NYC feminist, who's got a Wikipedia page. She's often been the subject of multiple troll/flame/stalking/etc wars, online and off, for many years now-- she was a favorite target of Anon and 4chan/b/ at one time, to give you an idea. Her page is rather sparse, but often people swing by and add inflammatory and other negative material to it. Since she's not *that* well known, her page isn't watched/edited by enough people to keep that in check, and she's often left frustrated that this material figures so prominently in her profile. I told her the best thing for her to do is find people in her community who can add more biographical information and really flesh out her page, so that anything negative has at least more balance to it. Since her community is mostly women, we butt up against the gendergap issue... there just aren't that many women (esp feminists) who are into this work. She's asked on multiple occasions if I or other consultants can be paid edit the page for her, but I advised that this not kosher in the community. So, she's feeling extremely stuck. She's not supposed to edit her own page, she doesn't have a strong enough community to maintain her page, and she can't pay anyone to do it. What to do? I understand, and she understands, that negativity is just part of the Wikipedia world; but having it be so prominent, and most of it being inflammatory, is just... ugh. So much of her work has been extremely positive and productive, I just hate to see her being recorded in history this way. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
dz
-=-=-=-=-Deanna Zandtdeanna@deannazandt.comSite: http://www.deannazandt.com/Twitter: http://twitter.com/randomdeannaFacebook: Public: http://facebook.com/deannazandtFacebook: Personal: http://facebook.com/deannaz Author: Share This! How You Will Change the World with Social Networking, Berrett-Koehler, June 2010http://www.sharethischange.com/ "Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." -- Oscar Wilde
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Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Everyone, thank you SO much for all the wonderful & supportive advice. I've forwarded it on to my colleague, and she's *extremely* appreciative. We had no idea there were so many resources available for these situations.
I didn't identify her at first because I wasn't sure how comfortable she was being a test case on a public listserv, but I did get permission from her this morning, since a couple of folks asked. Here's her page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Valenti
There's nothing egregious going on right now (tho lord knows we'd all love for the Althouse incident to be rounded out by other stuff, since it was what many consider an "insider baseball" moment); I'm also taking this opportunity to show her some of the do's and don'ts that I'm familiar with. We're also keeping an eye on a user that's been editing her page for years, adding random, unrelated negative attack pieces (which have since been edited out over time).
Random technical question on sources: there are calls for citations on the page to which there aren't really the technical "reliable sources." (i.e., her high school-- does that belong there at all? And the birth of her daughter, plus its complications.)
Thanks again for all your help. Really glad to be a part of this list/community.
cheers dz
On May 11, 2011, at 11:21 PM, Fred Bauder wrote:
Hi Deanna, There is some basic advice for people wishing to edit (or complain about) their ownbiographies here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notable_person_survival_kit Otherwise, drop me or some of the established women editors on this list a private note identifying the article, along with some sources that could be used to balance the article. Andreas
Yes, I keep forgetting this is a publicly accessible list. Please drop me a note if you want me to work on the problem, or use Wikipedia mail to User:Oversight if the problem needs immediate attention.
Fred
--- On Wed, 11/5/11, Deanna Zandt deanna@deannazandt.com wrote:
From: Deanna Zandt deanna@deannazandt.com Subject: [Gendergap] Advice for BLP situation (possibly off-topic) To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects" gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011, 17:58
Hey all, Apologies if this isn't the appropriate list/discussion to post to; I learned a lot by following the last BLP discussion, so I'm hoping to get some advice here. It's a question that as a technology consultant I'm asked a lot, and I don't have the greatest answer... I have a friend & colleague, a popular young NYC feminist, who's got a Wikipedia page. She's often been the subject of multiple troll/flame/stalking/etc wars, online and off, for many years now-- she was a favorite target of Anon and 4chan/b/ at one time, to give you an idea. Her page is rather sparse, but often people swing by and add inflammatory and other negative material to it. Since she's not *that* well known, her page isn't watched/edited by enough people to keep that in check, and she's often left frustrated that this material figures so prominently in her profile. I told her the best thing for her to do is find people in her community who can add more biographical information and really flesh out her page, so that anything negative has at least more balance to it. Since her community is mostly women, we butt up against the gendergap issue... there just aren't that many women (esp feminists) who are into this work. She's asked on multiple occasions if I or other consultants can be paid edit the page for her, but I advised that this not kosher in the community. So, she's feeling extremely stuck. She's not supposed to edit her own page, she doesn't have a strong enough community to maintain her page, and she can't pay anyone to do it. What to do? I understand, and she understands, that negativity is just part of the Wikipedia world; but having it be so prominent, and most of it being inflammatory, is just... ugh. So much of her work has been extremely positive and productive, I just hate to see her being recorded in history this way. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
dz
-=-=-=-=-Deanna Zandtdeanna@deannazandt.comSite: http://www.deannazandt.com/Twitter: http://twitter.com/randomdeannaFacebook: Public: http://facebook.com/deannazandtFacebook: Personal: http://facebook.com/deannaz Author: Share This! How You Will Change the World with Social Networking, Berrett-Koehler, June 2010http://www.sharethischange.com/ "Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." -- Oscar Wilde
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Everyone, thank you SO much for all the wonderful & supportive advice. I've forwarded it on to my colleague, and she's *extremely* appreciative. We had no idea there were so many resources available for these situations.
I didn't identify her at first because I wasn't sure how comfortable she was being a test case on a public listserv, but I did get permission from her this morning, since a couple of folks asked. Here's her page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Valenti
There's nothing egregious going on right now (tho lord knows we'd all love for the Althouse incident to be rounded out by other stuff, since it was what many consider an "insider baseball" moment); I'm also taking this opportunity to show her some of the do's and don'ts that I'm familiar with. We're also keeping an eye on a user that's been editing her page for years, adding random, unrelated negative attack pieces (which have since been edited out over time).
Random technical question on sources: there are calls for citations on the page to which there aren't really the technical "reliable sources." (i.e., her high school-- does that belong there at all? And the birth of her daughter, plus its complications.)
Thanks again for all your help. Really glad to be a part of this list/community.
cheers dz
The name of the high school is trivial and hardly needs a source, as surely she would object, or could change it herself, if it is not correct. She has created an account and made some edits on the talk page of the article. I've left a note on her user talk page about the baby's name, details of birth, and medical condition.
I'm already having trouble with the editor spoken of...
Fred
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 09:11, Fred Bauder fredbaud@fairpoint.net wrote:
I'm already having trouble with the editor spoken of...
He's already under a three-month BLP topic ban because of problems elsewhere, so unless he successfully appealed it, he shouldn't be editing the article anyway. I've left a note for him.
Sarah
Just heard from Jessica-- she is thrilled with the new contributions to the page, and really appreciates your help and support. Me too! I'm learning so much from this.
I'll let her know about the BLP ban for that user.
Thanks again.
cheers dz
On May 12, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Sarah wrote:
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 09:11, Fred Bauder fredbaud@fairpoint.net wrote:
I'm already having trouble with the editor spoken of...
He's already under a three-month BLP topic ban because of problems elsewhere, so unless he successfully appealed it, he shouldn't be editing the article anyway. I've left a note for him.
Sarah
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap