sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter, and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth.
Sandra, can you provide more info? Like, what the buzz says, where you saw and so on... That might make the job easier to WMDC members to answer it ;) _____ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.*
On 7 October 2011 02:49, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter, and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things like harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like copyright violations.
Isn't the next Wikimania in D.C.? This sends out a horrible message to people if its true - definitely not one of empowerment. this is a pretty hardcore problem. If this is this the case, then i suggest that as a group, we try to draw attention to this issue, or the location for Wikimania be changed. Not only is this F-ed up for internal people, but I can't imagine a reporter not jumping on this story. Obviously, this sends out a horrible message to women everywhere including, in my opinion, giving the impression that there are no repercussions for bad behavior.
Seriously f-ed up.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:51 AM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
Sandra, can you provide more info? Like, what the buzz says, where you saw and so on... That might make the job easier to WMDC members to answer it ;) _____ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.*
On 7 October 2011 02:49, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter, and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Well, whatever is he/she is not in the board: http://wikidc.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors _____ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.*
On 7 October 2011 12:49, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things like harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like copyright violations.
Isn't the next Wikimania in D.C.? This sends out a horrible message to people if its true - definitely not one of empowerment. this is a pretty hardcore problem. If this is this the case, then i suggest that as a group, we try to draw attention to this issue, or the location for Wikimania be changed. Not only is this F-ed up for internal people, but I can't imagine a reporter not jumping on this story. Obviously, this sends out a horrible message to women everywhere including, in my opinion, giving the impression that there are no repercussions for bad behavior.
Seriously f-ed up.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:51 AM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.ptwrote:
Sandra, can you provide more info? Like, what the buzz says, where you saw and so on... That might make the job easier to WMDC members to answer it ;) _____ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.*
On 7 October 2011 02:49, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter, and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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-- *Sandra Ordonez* *Web Astronaut* (503)866-2697 @Collaboracion
"Helping you rock out in the virtual, collaborative world."
*www.collaborativenation.com*
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On Oct 7, 2011, at 7:49 AM, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things like harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like copyright violations.
We, the DC chapter, recognize and are discussing these concerns from you and others.
Essentially we had no minimum voting requirements (we're changing our bylaws to fix this) and a shortage of candidates which allowed essentially anyone to be elected. (Personally I am not happy about that)
We welcome your voice to discuss this or any concerns on our internal list, which is public and open to all:
wikidc-internal@googlegroups.com
Cheers, Katie
Isn't the next Wikimania in D.C.? This sends out a horrible message to people if its true - definitely not one of empowerment. this is a pretty hardcore problem. If this is this the case, then i suggest that as a group, we try to draw attention to this issue, or the location for Wikimania be changed. Not only is this F-ed up for internal people, but I can't imagine a reporter not jumping on this story. Obviously, this sends out a horrible message to women everywhere including, in my opinion, giving the impression that there are no repercussions for bad behavior.
Seriously f-ed up.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:51 AM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote: Sandra, can you provide more info? Like, what the buzz says, where you saw and so on... That might make the job easier to WMDC members to answer it ;) _____ Béria Lima Wikimedia Portugal (351) 963 953 042
Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de t er livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.
On 7 October 2011 02:49, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote: sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter, and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- Sandra Ordonez Web Astronaut (503)866-2697 @Collaboracion
"Helping you rock out in the virtual, collaborative world."
www.collaborativenation.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Aude - Thank you!! If there is anything we can do to help out, please let us know. As I said, when I was informed, I was deeply disturbed. I can't speak for everyone here, but myself and I am sure many other women/men on this list, have your back on this. Whatever you need, please let us know.
Would it help if people from this list shared their opinion on the D.C. mailing list? Or are you guys basically on it? (I want to help you guys, not make it harder or more annoying). If so, I might actually write something up, and ask that those that are on this list sign it (if they want to of course).
THANK YOU AGAIN!!! Very refreshing and inspiring to see this being nipped in the butt.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:29 AM, aude aude.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
On Oct 7, 2011, at 7:49 AM, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things like harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like copyright violations.
We, the DC chapter, recognize and are discussing these concerns from you and others.
Essentially we had no minimum voting requirements (we're changing our bylaws to fix this) and a shortage of candidates which allowed essentially anyone to be elected. (Personally I am not happy about that)
We welcome your voice to discuss this or any concerns on our internal list, which is public and open to all:
wikidc-internal@googlegroups.com
Cheers, Katie
Isn't the next Wikimania in D.C.? This sends out a horrible message to people if its true - definitely not one of empowerment. this is a pretty hardcore problem. If this is this the case, then i suggest that as a group, we try to draw attention to this issue, or the location for Wikimania be changed. Not only is this F-ed up for internal people, but I can't imagine a reporter not jumping on this story. Obviously, this sends out a horrible message to women everywhere including, in my opinion, giving the impression that there are no repercussions for bad behavior.
Seriously f-ed up.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:51 AM, Béria Lima < beria.lima@wikimedia.pt beria.lima@wikimedia.pt> wrote:
Sandra, can you provide more info? Like, what the buzz says, where you saw and so on... That might make the job easier to WMDC members to answer it ;) _____ *Béria Lima* Wikimedia Portugal http://wikimedia.pt (351) 963 953 042
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.*
On 7 October 2011 02:49, Sandra ordonez < sandratordonez@gmail.com sandratordonez@gmail.com> wrote:
sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter, and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orgGendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orgGendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- *Sandra Ordonez* *Web Astronaut* (503)866-2697 @Collaboracion
"Helping you rock out in the virtual, collaborative world."
- http://www.collaborativenation.comwww.collaborativenation.com*
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things like harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like copyright violations.
Banned in the past, and done their time; or currently banned? I've worked with ex-cons in the past.
Currently banned and I think it wasn't that long ago.
lets wait till aude responds to see if there is a way this list can help.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Michael J. Lowrey orangemike@gmail.comwrote:
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things
like
harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like
copyright
violations.
Banned in the past, and done their time; or currently banned? I've worked with ex-cons in the past.
-- Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." -- Desiderius Erasmus
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I would recommend considerable caution in discussing this issue on this mailing list. One of the key "harassment" issues was that the now-banned user attempted to contact the WMF about another user whom he believed to beemployed by the WMF under some form of grant or contract. It raises an interesting question that some here would think it appropriate to try to affect that person's position in a Wikimedia chapter because of the English Wikipedia ban; it is parallel to the situation for which the user was banned in the first place.
At least one other party under conditional sanctions in the same case is an active and respected member of this mailing list, and I can respect that it would be difficult for that individual to have this matter dissected here. Please proceed with caution.
Risker/Anne
On 7 October 2011 09:55, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
Currently banned and I think it wasn't that long ago.
lets wait till aude responds to see if there is a way this list can help.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Michael J. Lowrey orangemike@gmail.comwrote:
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things
like
harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like
copyright
violations.
Banned in the past, and done their time; or currently banned? I've worked with ex-cons in the past.
-- Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." -- Desiderius Erasmus
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- *Sandra Ordonez* *Web Astronaut* (503)866-2697 @Collaboracion
"Helping you rock out in the virtual, collaborative world."
*www.collaborativenation.com*
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I dont understand what ur trying to express. Can u possibly clarify.
Are you saying that this person should be allowed to represent the community in an official capacity even though he has been recently banned for inappropriate behavior and breaking community guidelines?
I just want to make sure that im understanding your point of view correctly.
On Oct 7, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I would recommend considerable caution in discussing this issue on this mailing list. One of the key "harassment" issues was that the now-banned user attempted to contact the WMF about another user whom he believed to beemployed by the WMF under some form of grant or contract. It raises an interesting question that some here would think it appropriate to try to affect that person's position in a Wikimedia chapter because of the English Wikipedia ban; it is parallel to the situation for which the user was banned in the first place.
At least one other party under conditional sanctions in the same case is an active and respected member of this mailing list, and I can respect that it would be difficult for that individual to have this matter dissected here. Please proceed with caution.
Risker/Anne
On 7 October 2011 09:55, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote: Currently banned and I think it wasn't that long ago.
lets wait till aude responds to see if there is a way this list can help.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Michael J. Lowrey orangemike@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things like harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like copyright violations.
Banned in the past, and done their time; or currently banned? I've worked with ex-cons in the past.
-- Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." -- Desiderius Erasmus
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- Sandra Ordonez Web Astronaut (503)866-2697 @Collaboracion
"Helping you rock out in the virtual, collaborative world."
www.collaborativenation.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I don't know the situation here at all, but I think Anne's point is that this is a sensitive area and best discussed outside of mailing lists.
There is also a point that on-wiki behaviours, problems and sanctions do not necessarily translate into off-wiki activity. (though normally I notice this the other way around, with people who are pillars of the community on-wiki behaving unacceptably in real lifei..)
Chris Wikimedia UK
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Sandra sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
I dont understand what ur trying to express. Can u possibly clarify.
Are you saying that this person should be allowed to represent the community in an official capacity even though he has been recently banned for inappropriate behavior and breaking community guidelines?
I just want to make sure that im understanding your point of view correctly.
On Oct 7, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I would recommend considerable caution in discussing this issue on this mailing list. One of the key "harassment" issues was that the now-banned user attempted to contact the WMF about another user whom he believed to beemployed by the WMF under some form of grant or contract. It raises an interesting question that some here would think it appropriate to try to affect that person's position in a Wikimedia chapter because of the English Wikipedia ban; it is parallel to the situation for which the user was banned in the first place.
At least one other party under conditional sanctions in the same case is an active and respected member of this mailing list, and I can respect that it would be difficult for that individual to have this matter dissected here. Please proceed with caution.
Risker/Anne
On 7 October 2011 09:55, Sandra ordonez < sandratordonez@gmail.com sandratordonez@gmail.com> wrote:
Currently banned and I think it wasn't that long ago.
lets wait till aude responds to see if there is a way this list can help.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Michael J. Lowrey <orangemike@gmail.com orangemike@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Sandra ordonez <sandratordonez@gmail.com sandratordonez@gmail.com> wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things
like
harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like
copyright
violations.
Banned in the past, and done their time; or currently banned? I've worked with ex-cons in the past.
-- Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." -- Desiderius Erasmus
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orgGendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- *Sandra Ordonez* *Web Astronaut* (503)866-2697 @Collaboracion
"Helping you rock out in the virtual, collaborative world."
- http://www.collaborativenation.comwww.collaborativenation.com*
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orgGendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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Got it and totally understandable. im fine letting go of conversation now that i know something is being done to remedy this situation. Just wanted to alert crew just in case nothin was happening. (im a firm believer that secrecy fuels dysfunctional behavior, so my instinct was to make sure peeps were aware, just in case it required help).
On Oct 7, 2011, at 11:31 AM, Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com wrote:
I don't know the situation here at all, but I think Anne's point is that this is a sensitive area and best discussed outside of mailing lists.
There is also a point that on-wiki behaviours, problems and sanctions do not necessarily translate into off-wiki activity. (though normally I notice this the other way around, with people who are pillars of the community on-wiki behaving unacceptably in real lifei..)
Chris Wikimedia UK
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Sandra sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote: I dont understand what ur trying to express. Can u possibly clarify.
Are you saying that this person should be allowed to represent the community in an official capacity even though he has been recently banned for inappropriate behavior and breaking community guidelines?
I just want to make sure that im understanding your point of view correctly.
On Oct 7, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I would recommend considerable caution in discussing this issue on this mailing list. One of the key "harassment" issues was that the now-banned user attempted to contact the WMF about another user whom he believed to beemployed by the WMF under some form of grant or contract. It raises an interesting question that some here would think it appropriate to try to affect that person's position in a Wikimedia chapter because of the English Wikipedia ban; it is parallel to the situation for which the user was banned in the first place.
At least one other party under conditional sanctions in the same case is an active and respected member of this mailing list, and I can respect that it would be difficult for that individual to have this matter dissected here. Please proceed with caution.
Risker/Anne
On 7 October 2011 09:55, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote: Currently banned and I think it wasn't that long ago.
lets wait till aude responds to see if there is a way this list can help.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Michael J. Lowrey orangemike@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things like harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like copyright violations.
Banned in the past, and done their time; or currently banned? I've worked with ex-cons in the past.
-- Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." -- Desiderius Erasmus
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- Sandra Ordonez Web Astronaut (503)866-2697 @Collaboracion
"Helping you rock out in the virtual, collaborative world."
www.collaborativenation.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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I am saying that you are questioning the decision of an independent body to select a person for membership in the same way that he questioned the WMF for selecting a person he did not consider appropriate. In short, he sought a non-project sanction for on-project activities/concerns. I do not see a difference between that behaviour, and members of this list seeking a non-project sanction (i.e., removing someone from a chapter Board of Directors) for on-project activities/concerns, particularly when the on-project concern was....well, doing exactly what seems to be proposed here.
Wikimedia chapters are not beholden to one specific project. There are hundreds of people banned or blocked on one WMF project who are active, respected members of other projects; in fact, even on English Wikipedia, appropriate and valued work in another WMF project or area is usually considered a mitigating factor when a user requests review of a sanction.
(For the record, I am a member of the Arbitration Committee that voted to ban the user in question, and did support a ban.)
Risker/Anne
On 7 October 2011 11:22, Sandra sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
I dont understand what ur trying to express. Can u possibly clarify.
Are you saying that this person should be allowed to represent the community in an official capacity even though he has been recently banned for inappropriate behavior and breaking community guidelines?
I just want to make sure that im understanding your point of view correctly.
On Oct 7, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I would recommend considerable caution in discussing this issue on this mailing list. One of the key "harassment" issues was that the now-banned user attempted to contact the WMF about another user whom he believed to beemployed by the WMF under some form of grant or contract. It raises an interesting question that some here would think it appropriate to try to affect that person's position in a Wikimedia chapter because of the English Wikipedia ban; it is parallel to the situation for which the user was banned in the first place.
At least one other party under conditional sanctions in the same case is an active and respected member of this mailing list, and I can respect that it would be difficult for that individual to have this matter dissected here. Please proceed with caution.
Risker/Anne
On 7 October 2011 09:55, Sandra ordonez < sandratordonez@gmail.com sandratordonez@gmail.com> wrote:
Currently banned and I think it wasn't that long ago.
lets wait till aude responds to see if there is a way this list can help.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Michael J. Lowrey <orangemike@gmail.com orangemike@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Sandra ordonez <sandratordonez@gmail.com sandratordonez@gmail.com> wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things
like
harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like
copyright
violations.
Banned in the past, and done their time; or currently banned? I've worked with ex-cons in the past.
-- Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." -- Desiderius Erasmus
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orgGendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- *Sandra Ordonez* *Web Astronaut* (503)866-2697 @Collaboracion
"Helping you rock out in the virtual, collaborative world."
- http://www.collaborativenation.comwww.collaborativenation.com*
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orgGendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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In answer to Sandra's original question: Yes, I'm deeply concerned about the prospects for Wikimania given the present situation.
However, Anne makes a good point below. There are a couple things it's important to keep in mind though:
(1) Having a healthy Wikimania is something that's in all of our interest; I believe we all have a potential role to play in supporting the local chapter as it does something decidedly international, and (2) What happened to get this person on the board can't really be called a *decision* of the local group. According to the bylaws, the person in question nominated themselves, I believe without need for a second; there was no disclosure of the person's on-wiki identity (though it is both publicly available and known to this person's immediate peers); and finally, there was no vote at all -- because only 6 people were nominated for 7 seats, all self-nominees were simply seated *without* a decision-making process.
I do think #2 is secondary, but it provides important context for #1. The local organization can do what it wants to; but when there are direct consequences to our broader movement at stake (in the form of Wikimania), I believe that gives us all a strong and legitimate interest in how things go.
-Pete
On Oct 7, 2011, at 8:37 AM, Risker wrote:
I am saying that you are questioning the decision of an independent body to select a person for membership in the same way that he questioned the WMF for selecting a person he did not consider appropriate. In short, he sought a non-project sanction for on-project activities/concerns. I do not see a difference between that behaviour, and members of this list seeking a non-project sanction (i.e., removing someone from a chapter Board of Directors) for on-project activities/concerns, particularly when the on-project concern was....well, doing exactly what seems to be proposed here.
Wikimedia chapters are not beholden to one specific project. There are hundreds of people banned or blocked on one WMF project who are active, respected members of other projects; in fact, even on English Wikipedia, appropriate and valued work in another WMF project or area is usually considered a mitigating factor when a user requests review of a sanction.
(For the record, I am a member of the Arbitration Committee that voted to ban the user in question, and did support a ban.)
Risker/Anne
On 7 October 2011 11:22, Sandra sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote: I dont understand what ur trying to express. Can u possibly clarify.
Are you saying that this person should be allowed to represent the community in an official capacity even though he has been recently banned for inappropriate behavior and breaking community guidelines?
I just want to make sure that im understanding your point of view correctly.
On Oct 7, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I would recommend considerable caution in discussing this issue on this mailing list. One of the key "harassment" issues was that the now-banned user attempted to contact the WMF about another user whom he believed to beemployed by the WMF under some form of grant or contract. It raises an interesting question that some here would think it appropriate to try to affect that person's position in a Wikimedia chapter because of the English Wikipedia ban; it is parallel to the situation for which the user was banned in the first place.
At least one other party under conditional sanctions in the same case is an active and respected member of this mailing list, and I can respect that it would be difficult for that individual to have this matter dissected here. Please proceed with caution.
Risker/Anne
On 7 October 2011 09:55, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote: Currently banned and I think it wasn't that long ago.
lets wait till aude responds to see if there is a way this list can help.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Michael J. Lowrey orangemike@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things like harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like copyright violations.
Banned in the past, and done their time; or currently banned? I've worked with ex-cons in the past.
-- Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." -- Desiderius Erasmus
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- Sandra Ordonez Web Astronaut (503)866-2697 @Collaboracion
"Helping you rock out in the virtual, collaborative world."
www.collaborativenation.com
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Pete Forsyth peteforsyth@gmail.com 503-383-9454 mobile
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I am saying that you are questioning the decision of an independent body to select a person for membership in the same way that he questioned the WMF for selecting a person he did not consider appropriate. In short, he sought a non-project sanction for on-project activities/concerns. I do not see a difference between that behaviour, and members of this list seeking a non-project sanction (i.e., removing someone from a chapter Board of Directors) for on-project activities/concerns, particularly when the on-project concern was....well, doing exactly what seems to be proposed here.I agree that we need to be sensitive in general about how we discuss these type of issues on a public mailing list. And in this case since one party to the case is an active participate to this mailing list, we need to take extra caution that we are not only hearing one side of the story.
That said, I don't think that it is actually a parallel comparison. We don't want users escalating disputes by calling employers because it can have loads of negative repercussions for Wikipedia as well as the person who is reported. But I see no reason that users shouldn't take into consideration whether they support having someone who has been banned on one WMF project in a position of trust in a WMF related organization or another wiki. ArbCom does the same type of thing when it vets users for positions of trust such as checkuser. People take into account an users past history when they vote for steward or WMF Board members. So, I don't have a problem with someone raising a concern about it in this situation.
Sydney Poore User:FloNight
Wikimedia chapters are not beholden to one specific project. There are hundreds of people banned or blocked on one WMF project who are active, respected members of other projects; in fact, even on English Wikipedia, appropriate and valued work in another WMF project or area is usually considered a mitigating factor when a user requests review of a sanction.
(For the record, I am a member of the Arbitration Committee that voted to ban the user in question, and did support a ban.)
Risker/Anne
On 7 October 2011 11:22, Sandra sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
I dont understand what ur trying to express. Can u possibly clarify.
Are you saying that this person should be allowed to represent the community in an official capacity even though he has been recently banned for inappropriate behavior and breaking community guidelines?
I just want to make sure that im understanding your point of view correctly.
On Oct 7, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I would recommend considerable caution in discussing this issue on this mailing list. One of the key "harassment" issues was that the now-banned user attempted to contact the WMF about another user whom he believed to beemployed by the WMF under some form of grant or contract. It raises an interesting question that some here would think it appropriate to try to affect that person's position in a Wikimedia chapter because of the English Wikipedia ban; it is parallel to the situation for which the user was banned in the first place.
At least one other party under conditional sanctions in the same case is an active and respected member of this mailing list, and I can respect that it would be difficult for that individual to have this matter dissected here. Please proceed with caution.
Risker/Anne
On 7 October 2011 09:55, Sandra ordonez < sandratordonez@gmail.com sandratordonez@gmail.com> wrote:
Currently banned and I think it wasn't that long ago.
lets wait till aude responds to see if there is a way this list can help.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Michael J. Lowrey <orangemike@gmail.com orangemike@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Sandra ordonez <sandratordonez@gmail.com sandratordonez@gmail.com> wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the D.C. chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for things
like
harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like
copyright
violations.
Banned in the past, and done their time; or currently banned? I've worked with ex-cons in the past.
-- Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." -- Desiderius Erasmus
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orgGendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- *Sandra Ordonez* *Web Astronaut* (503)866-2697 @Collaboracion
"Helping you rock out in the virtual, collaborative world."
- http://www.collaborativenation.comwww.collaborativenation.com*
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orgGendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.poore@gmail.comwrote:
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I am saying that you are questioning the decision of an independent body to select a person for membership in the same way that he questioned the WMF for selecting a person he did not consider appropriate. In short, he sought a non-project sanction for on-project activities/concerns. I do not see a difference between that behaviour, and members of this list seeking a non-project sanction (i.e., removing someone from a chapter Board of Directors) for on-project activities/concerns, particularly when the on-project concern was....well, doing exactly what seems to be proposed here.
<my comment that mixed with Risker's>I agree that we need to be sensitive in
general about how we discuss these type of issues on a public mailing list. And in this case since one party to the case is an active participate to this mailing list, we need to take extra caution that we are not only hearing one side of the story.
That said, I don't think that it is actually a parallel comparison. We don't want users escalating disputes by calling employers because it can have loads of negative repercussions for Wikipedia as well as the person who is reported. But I see no reason that users shouldn't take into consideration whether they support having someone who has been banned on one WMF project in a position of trust in a WMF related organization or another wiki. ArbCom does the same type of thing when it vets users for positions of trust such as checkuser. People take into account an users past history when they vote for steward or WMF Board members. So, I don't have a problem with someone raising a concern about it in this situation.
Sydney Poore User:FloNight
Wikimedia chapters are not beholden to one specific project. There are hundreds of people banned or blocked on one WMF project who are active, respected members of other projects; in fact, even on English Wikipedia, appropriate and valued work in another WMF project or area is usually considered a mitigating factor when a user requests review of a sanction.
(For the record, I am a member of the Arbitration Committee that voted to ban the user in question, and did support a ban.)
Risker/Anne
On 7 October 2011 11:22, Sandra sandratordonez@gmail.com wrote:
I dont understand what ur trying to express. Can u possibly clarify.
Are you saying that this person should be allowed to represent the community in an official capacity even though he has been recently banned for inappropriate behavior and breaking community guidelines?
I just want to make sure that im understanding your point of view correctly.
On Oct 7, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I would recommend considerable caution in discussing this issue on this mailing list. One of the key "harassment" issues was that the now-banned user attempted to contact the WMF about another user whom he believed to beemployed by the WMF under some form of grant or contract. It raises an interesting question that some here would think it appropriate to try to affect that person's position in a Wikimedia chapter because of the English Wikipedia ban; it is parallel to the situation for which the user was banned in the first place.
At least one other party under conditional sanctions in the same case is an active and respected member of this mailing list, and I can respect that it would be difficult for that individual to have this matter dissected here. Please proceed with caution.
Risker/Anne
On 7 October 2011 09:55, Sandra ordonez < sandratordonez@gmail.com sandratordonez@gmail.com> wrote:
Currently banned and I think it wasn't that long ago.
lets wait till aude responds to see if there is a way this list can help.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Michael J. Lowrey <orangemike@gmail.com orangemike@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Sandra ordonez <sandratordonez@gmail.com sandratordonez@gmail.com> wrote:
Essentially, that someone has gotten a leadership position in the
D.C.
chapter who has been banned from editing Wikipedia for year for
things like
harassing people, disruptive behavior, and editing problems like
copyright
violations.
Banned in the past, and done their time; or currently banned? I've worked with ex-cons in the past.
-- Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." -- Desiderius Erasmus
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orgGendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- *Sandra Ordonez* *Web Astronaut* (503)866-2697 @Collaboracion
"Helping you rock out in the virtual, collaborative world."
- http://www.collaborativenation.comwww.collaborativenation.com*
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.orgGendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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On 7 October 2011 12:03, Sydney Poore sydney.poore@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I am saying that you are questioning the decision of an independent body to select a person for membership in the same way that he questioned the WMF for selecting a person he did not consider appropriate. In short, he sought a non-project sanction for on-project activities/concerns. I do not see a difference between that behaviour, and members of this list seeking a non-project sanction (i.e., removing someone from a chapter Board of Directors) for on-project activities/concerns, particularly when the on-project concern was....well, doing exactly what seems to be proposed here.I agree that we need to be sensitive in general about how we discuss these type of issues on a public mailing list. And in this case since one party to the case is an active participate to this mailing list, we need to take extra caution that we are not only hearing one side of the story.
That said, I don't think that it is actually a parallel comparison. We don't want users escalating disputes by calling employers because it can have loads of negative repercussions for Wikipedia as well as the person who is reported. But I see no reason that users shouldn't take into consideration whether they support having someone who has been banned on one WMF project in a position of trust in a WMF related organization or another wiki. ArbCom does the same type of thing when it vets users for positions of trust such as checkuser. People take into account an users past history when they vote for steward or WMF Board members. So, I don't have a problem with someone raising a concern about it in this situation.
Sydney, I'd agree with you if the "employer" involved wasn't the WMF. There is much that has not been sorted out between various layers of the intersecting WMF communities; it's commonplace and quite acceptable on some projects to criticize the actions of WMF employees directly (indeed, there's a goodly chunk of it on the English Wikipedia), and there have been fairly regular and public calls for the dismissal or sanctioning of WMF employees. Now, I don't think that's a great working environment, but certainly the widely held overall community view is that WMF employees sort of work on behalf of the community as a whole, and that their actions reflect on the movement/community as a whole. In fact, that is essentially what is being argued for in this case, with the exception that it's a chapter member and not a WMF employee involved. However, that viewpoint was soundly repudiated in this particular arbitration case; ironically, the position being taken by members of this mailing list effectively contradict the ruling that has led to the sanctions that the members of this list have expressed a concern about.
That is what I am getting at here.
Risker/Anne
I live in the DC area, but so far I have not become active in the DC chapter. Is there some way I could help out?
Joanna
On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.comwrote:
sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter, and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth.
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Hi all, I'm on the DC Chapter Board with Katie. Thanks for giving us an opportunity to discuss this.
To Joanna's and others' questions (particularly in the DC area, but anyone's welcome!): one of the best ways to help out would be to join the Chapter, participate in events, and help us find ways to include more diverse voices in Wikipedia and other Wiki projects. Most importantly, consider running for a leadership position in the future - our chapter needs leaders who care about these issues and actively look for opportunities to address them and advocate for improvement.
More generally, Wikimedia DC looks forward to helping increase female participation. Indeed, two members of the Board are women, all of our Board members recognize the importance of these issues, and we continue to invite in more women to Wiki projects through the multiple outreach projects we are hosting in our community.
Please feel free to reach out to any of us directly...especially if you want to get involved!
Best, Tiffany
On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Joanna Monastra joanna.monastra@gmail.comwrote:
I live in the DC area, but so far I have not become active in the DC chapter. Is there some way I could help out?
Joanna
On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.comwrote:
sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter, and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth.
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As a member of the DC Chapter who does not live in DC, I would suggest allowing proxy voting to encourage broader participation.
Ryan Kaldari
On 10/10/11 6:39 AM, Tiffany Smith wrote:
Hi all, I'm on the DC Chapter Board with Katie. Thanks for giving us an opportunity to discuss this.
To Joanna's and others' questions (particularly in the DC area, but anyone's welcome!): one of the best ways to help out would be to join the Chapter, participate in events, and help us find ways to include more diverse voices in Wikipedia and other Wiki projects. Most importantly, consider running for a leadership position in the future
- our chapter needs leaders who care about these issues and actively
look for opportunities to address them and advocate for improvement.
More generally, Wikimedia DC looks forward to helping increase female participation. Indeed, two members of the Board are women, all of our Board members recognize the importance of these issues, and we continue to invite in more women to Wiki projects through the multiple outreach projects we are hosting in our community.
Please feel free to reach out to any of us directly...especially if you want to get involved!
Best, Tiffany
On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Joanna Monastra <joanna.monastra@gmail.com mailto:joanna.monastra@gmail.com> wrote:
I live in the DC area, but so far I have not become active in the DC chapter. Is there some way I could help out? Joanna On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Sandra ordonez <sandratordonez@gmail.com <mailto:sandratordonez@gmail.com>> wrote: sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter, and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth. _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Mulier sum, audite me fremere _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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On Oct 10, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
As a member of the DC Chapter who does not live in DC, I would suggest allowing proxy voting to encourage broader participation.
We are considering various options, such as mail-in voting.
Also, DC updated it's legal code in July giving more options including allow online participation in meetings or even online-only meetings.
We would welcome input (on one of the dc mailing lists) as we revise our bylaws and see how we can take advantage of such changes in DC code.
Cheers, Katie
Ryan Kaldari
On 10/10/11 6:39 AM, Tiffany Smith wrote:
Hi all, I'm on the DC Chapter Board with Katie. Thanks for giving us an opportunity to discuss this.
To Joanna's and others' questions (particularly in the DC area, but anyone's welcome!): one of the best ways to help out would be to join the Chapter, participate in events, and help us find ways to include more diverse voices in Wikipedia and other Wiki projects. Most importantly, consider running for a leadership position in the future - our chapter needs leaders who care about these issues and actively look for opportunities to address them and advocate for improvement.
More generally, Wikimedia DC looks forward to helping increase female participation. Indeed, two members of the Board are women, all of our Board members recognize the importance of these issues, and we continue to invite in more women to Wiki projects through the multiple outreach projects we are hosting in our community.
Please feel free to reach out to any of us directly...especially if you want to get involved!
Best, Tiffany
On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Joanna Monastra <joanna.monastra@gmail.com
wrote:
I live in the DC area, but so far I have not become active in the DC chapter. Is there some way I could help out?
Joanna
On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Sandra ordonez <sandratordonez@gmail.com
wrote:
sooo, i've heard some buzz about what is going on in the d.c. chapter, and I've been thinking of writing a post about it, bc frankly if the buzz is accurate, i'm a little disappointed. Does anyone know what is going on there? Thought this might be a good place to ask before I open my big mouth.
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-- Mulier sum, audite me fremere
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