I don't know how else to say in that I thought these were emails -- not for publication and therefore googleable. I want my comments removed. The link to which I was sent to "remove" items is not a working link. I'm very frustrated and upset that this has happened. THIS WILL HAVE A DELETERIOUS EFFECT IN MY CAREER because people will be googling my film and will read all of this and that outside of any context -- including nasty conjectures and suppositions about my character. And even this will be published. So I can't say anything else here. My time is limited and I can't spend it doing something that seems like a bottomless pit.
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:08 AM, gendergap-request@lists.wikimedia.orgwrote:
Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gendergap digest..."
Today's Topics:
- Re: Please delete gendergaps Googleable links about me -- (Federico Leva (Nemo))
- Mind the Gap(s)! Writing Styles of Female Editors on Wikipedia (Laura Hale)
- Suggestions on improved content for Wikimedia Commons (Sarah Stierch)
- Arizona Womens Heritage Trail (Sarah Stierch)
- Interesting article that can use some help - Fallen woman (Sarah Stierch)
- Women Fight back Trolls (Sandra ordonez)
- Congratulations to WMF's Sumana Harihareswara! (Sarah Stierch)
- Re: Congratulations to WMF's Sumana Harihareswara! (Sarah Stierch)
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 09:05:37 +0100 From: "Federico Leva (Nemo)" nemowiki@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Please delete gendergaps Googleable links about me -- To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 4EB4EE51.1000200@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Migdia Chinea, 05/11/2011 06:01:
I'm very disturbed that my comments are now googleable. And I guess so is this one I'm writing right now. There's no context and it's just ery disturbing. My short has been seen in 25 film festivals around the world and now it appears that any comment I make is googleable, which will have a deleterious effect on me in terms of getting a job. Please remove all my comments. I'm really upset -- I'm afraid of what I say.
Until this is a public mailing list, see < https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Remove_a_message_from_mailing_list_archi...
Nemo
Message: 2 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 19:18:45 +1100 From: Laura Hale laura@fanhistory.com Subject: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap(s)! Writing Styles of Female Editors on Wikipedia To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: <CAGaPgkSdiijhZpvXrnNCT6+BTDzYo1cJgeFo9sj48iatGWmurA@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
"...This analysis will focus on characteristics of female participants on English Wikipedia. The analysis will look to see if these participants are representative of the female English speaking population. The analysis will also explore, through some existing literature and in the conclusion, the question of whether these potential differences could matter when planning strategy to target the gender gap. ?"
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mind_the_Gap
Sincerely, Laura Hale
-- twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com
Unfortunately the list is public (there is a link to public archives on the subscription page), and posts to it are collected by several services that are unrelated to Wikimedia. Since the posts are stored by private third parties, there is no good method for removing them. You can try inquiring with the various services directly, if you can determine who they are and how to contact them.
Is there no way to undo this, Nathan? Sarah? I will readily admit that I DID NOT understand that posts to this list were public posts, and my participation would have been shaped by such an awareness.
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Nathan <> wrote:
Unfortunately the list is public (there is a link to public archives on the subscription page), and posts to it are collected by several services that are unrelated to Wikimedia. Since the posts are stored by private third parties, there is no good method for removing them. You can try inquiring with the various services directly, if you can determine who they are and how to contact them.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
(Accidentally replied privately due to being cc'd on the email he sent! This was meant for on-list)
Hi Mike,
As I just sent out re:Migdia, it states on the sign up page for the list "To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Gendergap Archives http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/."[1] Unless we chose to make this a close list, that is by approved subscription only (like internal-l[2] or cultural partners[3]), it will still not remove the public content already on the public web. And it would require community support for a closed list (which I don't think is necessary, personally).
It's unfortunate if this will possibly change your participation on the list from here on out, but, since the lists inception in February it has been a public mailing list.
-Sarah Stierch
[1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap [2] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/Internal-l [3] http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Contact
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Michael J. Lowrey orangemike@gmail.comwrote:
Is there no way to undo this, Nathan? Sarah? I will readily admit that I DID NOT understand that posts to this list were public posts, and my participation would have been shaped by such an awareness.
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Nathan <> wrote:
Unfortunately the list is public (there is a link to public archives on the subscription page), and posts to it are collected by several services that are unrelated to Wikimedia. Since the posts are stored by private third parties, there is no good method for removing them. You can try inquiring with the various services directly, if you can determine who they are and how to contact them.
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes." -- Desiderius Erasmus
I do sympathize with Migdia and, particularly as a new participant in WMF projects, it probably did not occur to her that communication related to most aspects of most projects is public by default.
At the same time, it does seem to be clear that there was public access to archives at least.
If I may suggest, several of the interface statements including pages where one requests posting access and the email confirming subscription should probably emphasize that this mailing list is publicly available, may be mirrored on other sites, and any posts a person makes will be searchable on most major search engines. I'd encourage stating bluntly that once a post is made, it should be considered to be publicly and widely available on the internet, and that it will not be deleted or removed.
At the same time, I'd like to encourage everyone on the list to give serious thought to actively trimming your posts, limiting inclusion to only the segments of posts you're responding to rather than a long chain of prior posts. (Yes, I'm probably as guilty as anyone else on this point.) If nothing else, it's good mailing list etiquette, and reduces the number of posts that are bounced to the moderation queue because of length.
Best,
Risker
on 11/9/11 3:03 PM, Risker at risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I do sympathize with Migdia and, particularly as a new participant in WMF projects, it probably did not occur to her that communication related to most aspects of most projects is public by default. At the same time, it does seem to be clear that there was public access to archives at least. If I may suggest, several of the interface statements including pages where one requests posting access and the email confirming subscription should probably emphasize that this mailing list is publicly available, may be mirrored on other sites, and any posts a person makes will be searchable on most major search engines. I'd encourage stating bluntly that once a post is made, it should be considered to be publicly and widely available on the internet, and that it will not be deleted or removed. At the same time, I'd like to encourage everyone on the list to give serious thought to actively trimming your posts, limiting inclusion to only the segments of posts you're responding to rather than a long chain of prior posts. (Yes, I'm probably as guilty as anyone else on this point.) If nothing else, it's good mailing list etiquette, and reduces the number of posts that are bounced to the moderation queue because of length. Best, Risker
Along this line, Risker, which form of posting is preferred in the Lists; posting below the person you are responding to (as I am doing here); or posting above it? I've seen it done both ways.
Marc
Along this line, Risker, which form of posting is preferred in the Lists; posting below the person you are responding to (as I am doing here); or posting above it? I've seen it done both ways.
Marc
Marc,
This could get fun -- more virtual ink has been spilled on the "top-post" vs. "bottom-post" debate about mailing lists than on most topics :)
In my opinion, both are useful tools. For a detail-oriented discussion, especially if several people are participating, putting your comments below the prior post -- or weaving individual points in where they belong -- can be the easiest to follow. In other cases, if what you're seeking to do is reply broadly to the overall message(s) sent before, top-posting may work better. (But if a certain approach has already taken hold within a discussion, it's often less confusing if you follow the example of those before you.)
Above all, I try to keep in mind how it will appear to the reader, and make sure I'm presenting myself as clearly as possible. So I'd say, case-by-case, and, as Risker says, trim stuff that is not essential to your point.
Hope that helps! -Pete
on 11/9/11 3:32 PM, Pete Forsyth at peteforsyth@gmail.com wrote:
Along this line, Risker, which form of posting is preferred in the Lists; posting below the person you are responding to (as I am doing here); or posting above it? I've seen it done both ways.
Marc
Marc,
This could get fun -- more virtual ink has been spilled on the "top-post" vs. "bottom-post" debate about mailing lists than on most topics :)
In my opinion, both are useful tools. For a detail-oriented discussion, especially if several people are participating, putting your comments below the prior post -- or weaving individual points in where they belong -- can be the easiest to follow. In other cases, if what you're seeking to do is reply broadly to the overall message(s) sent before, top-posting may work better. (But if a certain approach has already taken hold within a discussion, it's often less confusing if you follow the example of those before you.)
Above all, I try to keep in mind how it will appear to the reader, and make sure I'm presenting myself as clearly as possible. So I'd say, case-by-case, and, as Risker says, trim stuff that is not essential to your point.
Hope that helps! -Pete
Good points, Pete. Differentiating between specific and general responses makes the most sense.
Thanks, Marc
Hi Migdia,
When you signed up for this mailing list, you signed up for it on https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap which states " To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Gendergap Archives" and links to the archived posts. I'm sorry you didn't see before that what you wrote was public.
As co-moderators, myself and Sue are unable to change that - only the people in charge of the computer systems can delete publicly archived posts, and even then, they do not control other mailing-list archiving websites. The best thing for *you* to do is to write some of the websites that archive this material (see below my signature for some link suggestions to get you started [1][2]), and write...*a lot*, elsewhere, on the public web (other websites, mailing lists about films, etc), so that when people do Google your name, they find the stuff you want them to see, instead of things from this mailing list you contributed.
You can also ask in the #wikimedia-tech channel (per: http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Remove_a_message_from_mailing_list_archiv...) they might be able to provide advice or possibly assist you with your request. You can access that here: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-tech
Since you do not want to be associated with the list anymore, I am going to take this as a request to unsubscribe. If you do wish to rejoin the mailing list in the future, and are okay with your messages being publicly logged and archived, you can rejoin here: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I hope this helps,
Sarah Stierch
[1] http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.gendergap [2] http://www.mail-archive.com/gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org/
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Migdia Chinea migdia.chinea@gmail.comwrote:
I don't know how else to say in that I thought these were emails -- not for publication and therefore googleable. I want my comments removed. The link to which I was sent to "remove" items is not a working link. I'm very frustrated and upset that this has happened. THIS WILL HAVE A DELETERIOUS EFFECT IN MY CAREER because people will be googling my film and will read all of this and that outside of any context -- including nasty conjectures and suppositions about my character. And even this will be published. So I can't say anything else here. My time is limited and I can't spend it doing something that seems like a bottomless pit.
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:08 AM, gendergap-request@lists.wikimedia.orgwrote:
Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gendergap-request@lists.wikimedia.org
You can reach the person managing the list at gendergap-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gendergap digest..."
Today's Topics:
- Re: Please delete gendergaps Googleable links about me -- (Federico Leva (Nemo))
- Mind the Gap(s)! Writing Styles of Female Editors on Wikipedia (Laura Hale)
- Suggestions on improved content for Wikimedia Commons (Sarah Stierch)
- Arizona Womens Heritage Trail (Sarah Stierch)
- Interesting article that can use some help - Fallen woman (Sarah Stierch)
- Women Fight back Trolls (Sandra ordonez)
- Congratulations to WMF's Sumana Harihareswara! (Sarah Stierch)
- Re: Congratulations to WMF's Sumana Harihareswara! (Sarah Stierch)
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 09:05:37 +0100 From: "Federico Leva (Nemo)" nemowiki@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Please delete gendergaps Googleable links about me -- To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 4EB4EE51.1000200@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Migdia Chinea, 05/11/2011 06:01:
I'm very disturbed that my comments are now googleable. And I guess so is this one I'm writing right now. There's no context and it's just ery disturbing. My short has been seen in 25 film festivals around the world and now it appears that any comment I make is googleable, which will have a deleterious effect on me in terms of getting a job. Please remove all my comments. I'm really upset -- I'm afraid of what I say.
Until this is a public mailing list, see < https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Remove_a_message_from_mailing_list_archi...
Nemo
Message: 2 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 19:18:45 +1100 From: Laura Hale laura@fanhistory.com Subject: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap(s)! Writing Styles of Female Editors on Wikipedia To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: < CAGaPgkSdiijhZpvXrnNCT6+BTDzYo1cJgeFo9sj48iatGWmurA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
"...This analysis will focus on characteristics of female participants on English Wikipedia. The analysis will look to see if these participants are representative of the female English speaking population. The analysis will also explore, through some existing literature and in the conclusion, the question of whether these potential differences could matter when planning strategy to target the gender gap. ?"
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mind_the_Gap
Sincerely, Laura Hale
-- twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com