I apologize to those I have made uncomfortable with my tone. I never intended to silence those voices of women here trying to do outreach, which was why I helped organise WikiWomenCamp.
I would like for the moderators to unsubscribe me as I feel unsafe in voicing my opinion and unsupported by the list by active outreach I do.
I want to humbly thank the administrators for telling me this during the Paralympic Games Opening Ceremonies, which I am covering for Wikimedia, and working on to help improve disability related and women's outreach.
I hope I can do better with my tone and outreach outside the framework of this list where I am less likely to make people uncomfortable.
I am sorry. :( Truly so.
Sent from my iPad
I am sorry to see Laura go. Her leaving the list was not requested by the mod team here, and was not the desired or expected outcome of my interaction with her. She's welcome back at any point that she would like to resubscribe.
Sarah and I have recently been approached by people in private indicating that Laura's posting style has made them uncomfortable participating in public discussions on this list. After talking with Sarah, I sent Laura an email asking her to step back and consider if her messages could make others uncomfortable before sending them out, and asking her to take into consideration other people's feedback when they offer it. (She's not the only member who we've sent a similar message to.)
--- Kevin Gorman
I would like to thank the mod team for intervening, in any case.
From, Emily
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
I am sorry to see Laura go. Her leaving the list was not requested by the mod team here, and was not the desired or expected outcome of my interaction with her. She's welcome back at any point that she would like to resubscribe.
Sarah and I have recently been approached by people in private indicating that Laura's posting style has made them uncomfortable participating in public discussions on this list. After talking with Sarah, I sent Laura an email asking her to step back and consider if her messages could make others uncomfortable before sending them out, and asking her to take into consideration other people's feedback when they offer it. (She's not the only member who we've sent a similar message to.)
Kevin Gorman
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I would like to say to the moderator team - especially Sarah who now decided to create a "WWC" initiative (and I'm now requesting her to change the name) - to fuck off and try to do half of what Laura is doing for women in Wikipedia..
I'm with Laura in this. If this list isn't welcoming to women from outside USA, it failed the propose to exist. If isn't a safe place for women, it has no reason to exist. _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 29 August 2012 19:56, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
I would like to thank the mod team for intervening, in any case.
From, Emily
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
I am sorry to see Laura go. Her leaving the list was not requested by the mod team here, and was not the desired or expected outcome of my interaction with her. She's welcome back at any point that she would like to resubscribe.
Sarah and I have recently been approached by people in private indicating that Laura's posting style has made them uncomfortable participating in public discussions on this list. After talking with Sarah, I sent Laura an email asking her to step back and consider if her messages could make others uncomfortable before sending them out, and asking her to take into consideration other people's feedback when they offer it. (She's not the only member who we've sent a similar message to.)
Kevin Gorman
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Hi everyone,
Beria has been unsubscribed from the list. This was moderator decision, not just on my end.
Sorry that your email box had to be the victim of this and I hope all of you - wherever you live, and whatever your gender of choice is, can move beyond the recent conflict.
From here on out if discussions start to get heated and we fail to live up to [[WP:CIVIL]] [1] then the moderators will turn whole list moderation on, and every email will be moderated until the drama llama is calmed.
Let's be grown ups, work together, and celebrate our collective passion for wanting to "mind the gap" regardless of gender, language and location. (And let's have fun doing it?! Right?!)
Thanks,
-Sarah
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civil
On 8/29/12 8:02 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
I would like to say to the moderator team - especially Sarah who now decided to create a "WWC" initiative (and I'm now requesting her to change the name) - to fuck off and try to do half of what Laura is doing for women in Wikipedia..
I'm with Laura in this. If this list isn't welcoming to women from outside USA, it failed the propose to exist. If isn't a safe place for women, it has no reason to exist. _____ /Béria Lima/
/Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos/
On 29 August 2012 19:56, Emily Monroe <emilymonroe03@gmail.com mailto:emilymonroe03@gmail.com> wrote:
I would like to thank the mod team for intervening, in any case. From, Emily On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Kevin Gorman <kgorman@gmail.com <mailto:kgorman@gmail.com>> wrote: I am sorry to see Laura go. Her leaving the list was not requested by the mod team here, and was not the desired or expected outcome of my interaction with her. She's welcome back at any point that she would like to resubscribe. Sarah and I have recently been approached by people in private indicating that Laura's posting style has made them uncomfortable participating in public discussions on this list. After talking with Sarah, I sent Laura an email asking her to step back and consider if her messages could make others uncomfortable before sending them out, and asking her to take into consideration other people's feedback when they offer it. (She's not the only member who we've sent a similar message to.) --- Kevin Gorman _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Even if I *don't* participate in the list more often, I'd be more comfortable doing so if the mod team really is going to be more aggressive about civility.
From, Emily
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stierch@gmail.comwrote:
Hi everyone,
Beria has been unsubscribed from the list. This was moderator decision, not just on my end.
Sorry that your email box had to be the victim of this and I hope all of you - wherever you live, and whatever your gender of choice is, can move beyond the recent conflict.
From here on out if discussions start to get heated and we fail to live up to [[WP:CIVIL]] [1] then the moderators will turn whole list moderation on, and every email will be moderated until the drama llama is calmed.
Let's be grown ups, work together, and celebrate our collective passion for wanting to "mind the gap" regardless of gender, language and location. (And let's have fun doing it?! Right?!)
Thanks,
-Sarah
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civil
On 8/29/12 8:02 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
I would like to say to the moderator team - especially Sarah who now decided to create a "WWC" initiative (and I'm now requesting her to change the name) - to fuck off and try to do half of what Laura is doing for women in Wikipedia..
I'm with Laura in this. If this list isn't welcoming to women from outside USA, it failed the propose to exist. If isn't a safe place for women, it has no reason to exist. _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 29 August 2012 19:56, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
I would like to thank the mod team for intervening, in any case.
From, Emily
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
I am sorry to see Laura go. Her leaving the list was not requested by the mod team here, and was not the desired or expected outcome of my interaction with her. She's welcome back at any point that she would like to resubscribe.
Sarah and I have recently been approached by people in private indicating that Laura's posting style has made them uncomfortable participating in public discussions on this list. After talking with Sarah, I sent Laura an email asking her to step back and consider if her messages could make others uncomfortable before sending them out, and asking her to take into consideration other people's feedback when they offer it. (She's not the only member who we've sent a similar message to.)
Kevin Gorman
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- *Sarah Stierch* *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate todayhttps://donate.wikimedia.org/
<<
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Beria was correct that this list has not had a particularly welcoming atmosphere to women outside of the US. I would go further and say that this list has not had a particularly welcoming atmosphere to anyone in the recent past, regardless of gender or place of residence.
I have hated the idea of having to use technical means of moderation on this list. I've previously felt and hoped that relying on our shared humanity and our common desire to ameliorate what is an incredibly significant problem for the Wikimedia movement - and I think for the globe - would be enough to restore a safe atmosphere to this list. It has become clear that this is not the case.
Beria has been unsubscribed from this list, and will remain so for the indefinite future. This is the first time that any of us have ever used the listserv admin toolkit, except to remove spambots and for maintenance work. I hope it will be the last time. But going forward, I'm no longer okay sacrificing the ability of this list to have potentially productive discussions just in order to avoid using technical means of moderation.
We will be moderating this list in a far more aggressive manner moving forward. We will in almost all situations talk to people ahead of time, and try to head off problems. We can understand occasional slip-ups and elevated tensions - we all experience them. But if you habitually behave in a way that makes other members feel uncomfortable or otherwise habitually disrupt this list, you will be removed.
---- Kevin Gorman
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:04 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stierch@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everyone,
Beria has been unsubscribed from the list. This was moderator decision, not just on my end.
Sorry that your email box had to be the victim of this and I hope all of you
- wherever you live, and whatever your gender of choice is, can move beyond
the recent conflict.
From here on out if discussions start to get heated and we fail to live up to [[WP:CIVIL]] [1] then the moderators will turn whole list moderation on, and every email will be moderated until the drama llama is calmed.
Let's be grown ups, work together, and celebrate our collective passion for wanting to "mind the gap" regardless of gender, language and location. (And let's have fun doing it?! Right?!)
Thanks,
-Sarah
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civil
On 8/29/12 8:02 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
I would like to say to the moderator team - especially Sarah who now decided to create a "WWC" initiative (and I'm now requesting her to change the name)
- to fuck off and try to do half of what Laura is doing for women in
Wikipedia..
I'm with Laura in this. If this list isn't welcoming to women from outside USA, it failed the propose to exist. If isn't a safe place for women, it has no reason to exist. _____ Béria Lima
Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho.
On 29 August 2012 19:56, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
I would like to thank the mod team for intervening, in any case.
From, Emily
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
I am sorry to see Laura go. Her leaving the list was not requested by the mod team here, and was not the desired or expected outcome of my interaction with her. She's welcome back at any point that she would like to resubscribe.
Sarah and I have recently been approached by people in private indicating that Laura's posting style has made them uncomfortable participating in public discussions on this list. After talking with Sarah, I sent Laura an email asking her to step back and consider if her messages could make others uncomfortable before sending them out, and asking her to take into consideration other people's feedback when they offer it. (She's not the only member who we've sent a similar message to.)
Kevin Gorman
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- Sarah Stierch Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate today<<
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
My experience during over a decade of advocacy for women has been that active moderation of online forums is both an absolute requirement for creating a safe space for women and also incredibly hard on the people doing the moderation itself. Thank you to everyone who does the hard work to create places where women and men feel comfortable participating!
-VAL
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:33 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
Beria was correct that this list has not had a particularly welcoming atmosphere to women outside of the US. I would go further and say that this list has not had a particularly welcoming atmosphere to anyone in the recent past, regardless of gender or place of residence.
I have hated the idea of having to use technical means of moderation on this list. I've previously felt and hoped that relying on our shared humanity and our common desire to ameliorate what is an incredibly significant problem for the Wikimedia movement - and I think for the globe - would be enough to restore a safe atmosphere to this list. It has become clear that this is not the case.
Beria has been unsubscribed from this list, and will remain so for the indefinite future. This is the first time that any of us have ever used the listserv admin toolkit, except to remove spambots and for maintenance work. I hope it will be the last time. But going forward, I'm no longer okay sacrificing the ability of this list to have potentially productive discussions just in order to avoid using technical means of moderation.
We will be moderating this list in a far more aggressive manner moving forward. We will in almost all situations talk to people ahead of time, and try to head off problems. We can understand occasional slip-ups and elevated tensions - we all experience them. But if you habitually behave in a way that makes other members feel uncomfortable or otherwise habitually disrupt this list, you will be removed.
Kevin Gorman
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:04 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stierch@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everyone,
Beria has been unsubscribed from the list. This was moderator decision, not just on my end.
Sorry that your email box had to be the victim of this and I hope all of you
- wherever you live, and whatever your gender of choice is, can move beyond
the recent conflict.
From here on out if discussions start to get heated and we fail to live up to [[WP:CIVIL]] [1] then the moderators will turn whole list moderation on, and every email will be moderated until the drama llama is calmed.
Let's be grown ups, work together, and celebrate our collective passion for wanting to "mind the gap" regardless of gender, language and location. (And let's have fun doing it?! Right?!)
Thanks,
-Sarah
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civil
On 8/29/12 8:02 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
I would like to say to the moderator team - especially Sarah who now decided to create a "WWC" initiative (and I'm now requesting her to change the name)
- to fuck off and try to do half of what Laura is doing for women in
Wikipedia..
I'm with Laura in this. If this list isn't welcoming to women from outside USA, it failed the propose to exist. If isn't a safe place for women, it has no reason to exist. _____ Béria Lima
Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho.
On 29 August 2012 19:56, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
I would like to thank the mod team for intervening, in any case.
From, Emily
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
I am sorry to see Laura go. Her leaving the list was not requested by the mod team here, and was not the desired or expected outcome of my interaction with her. She's welcome back at any point that she would like to resubscribe.
Sarah and I have recently been approached by people in private indicating that Laura's posting style has made them uncomfortable participating in public discussions on this list. After talking with Sarah, I sent Laura an email asking her to step back and consider if her messages could make others uncomfortable before sending them out, and asking her to take into consideration other people's feedback when they offer it. (She's not the only member who we've sent a similar message to.)
Kevin Gorman
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- Sarah Stierch Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate today<<
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap