Just wanted to share. Yesterday I put something on my facebook re: gender gap. My friend from high school, who totally would be a woman who would enjoy editing an encyclopedia, posted the following:
"Whenever I edit it usually gets taken down but some OCD nerd, that probably wants no one touching "their" site so I stopped bothering."
"Typical response from some women" should be "a response from a woman". So the problem, then, is newbie ignorance about our rules and policies?
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.comwrote:
Just wanted to share. Yesterday I put something on my facebook re: gender gap. My friend from high school, who totally would be a woman who would enjoy editing an encyclopedia, posted the following:
"Whenever I edit it usually gets taken down but some OCD nerd, that probably wants no one touching "their" site so I stopped bothering."
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Newbie ignorance is never a problem. All newbies are, by nature, ignorant of our policies and practices. We all started out that way. And the great thing about wikis is that that is okay and you can still contribute. If anything, the problem is intolerance of newbies. (That may be what you really meant anyway, but I think it is better to turn that phrase "newbie ignorance" around.)
Dominic
On 2/11/11 5:49 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
"Typical response from some women" should be "a response from a woman". So the problem, then, is newbie ignorance about our rules and policies?
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Sandra ordonez <sandratordonez@gmail.com mailto:sandratordonez@gmail.com> wrote:
Just wanted to share. Yesterday I put something on my facebook re: gender gap. My friend from high school, who totally would be a woman who would enjoy editing an encyclopedia, posted the following: "Whenever I edit it usually gets taken down but some OCD nerd, that probably wants no one touching "their" site so I stopped bothering." _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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Yah, that's what I meant; newbie ignorance isn't a problem. Our attitude to newbie ignorance is the problem :P. This is something I think all new editors are at risk of (being shouted at and falling off the grid as a result) - I'm not sure why it would affect women more, or if it does at all.
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Dominic dmcdevit@cox.net wrote:
Newbie ignorance is never a problem. All newbies are, by nature, ignorant of our policies and practices. We all started out that way. And the great thing about wikis is that that is okay and you can still contribute. If anything, the problem is intolerance of newbies. (That may be what you really meant anyway, but I think it is better to turn that phrase "newbie ignorance" around.)
Dominic
On 2/11/11 5:49 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
"Typical response from some women" should be "a response from a woman". So the problem, then, is newbie ignorance about our rules and policies?
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Sandra ordonez <sandratordonez@gmail.com
wrote:
Just wanted to share. Yesterday I put something on my facebook re: gender gap. My friend from high school, who totally would be a woman who would enjoy editing an encyclopedia, posted the following:
"Whenever I edit it usually gets taken down but some OCD nerd, that probably wants no one touching "their" site so I stopped bothering."
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I think it does affect women more, but this is just my personal observation. And I should have put "typical response I ve gotten from women." This is why i love wikipedia - really helps you be very aware of your language. Thanks Oliver!!
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Oliver Keyes scire.facias@gmail.comwrote:
Yah, that's what I meant; newbie ignorance isn't a problem. Our attitude to newbie ignorance is the problem :P. This is something I think all new editors are at risk of (being shouted at and falling off the grid as a result) - I'm not sure why it would affect women more, or if it does at all.
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Dominic dmcdevit@cox.net wrote:
Newbie ignorance is never a problem. All newbies are, by nature, ignorant of our policies and practices. We all started out that way. And the great thing about wikis is that that is okay and you can still contribute. If anything, the problem is intolerance of newbies. (That may be what you really meant anyway, but I think it is better to turn that phrase "newbie ignorance" around.)
Dominic
On 2/11/11 5:49 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
"Typical response from some women" should be "a response from a woman". So the problem, then, is newbie ignorance about our rules and policies?
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Sandra ordonez < sandratordonez@gmail.com> wrote:
Just wanted to share. Yesterday I put something on my facebook re: gender gap. My friend from high school, who totally would be a woman who would enjoy editing an encyclopedia, posted the following:
"Whenever I edit it usually gets taken down but some OCD nerd, that probably wants no one touching "their" site so I stopped bothering."
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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As said, we need a proper survey on the matter. Surveys are always going to be beset with statistical errors, but this seems a fairly vital thing. I think I mentioned before that, last year, the WMF did a general survey of people who had left Wikipedia and why. I think a good first step would be finding out where that data is and, if it included gender in the filled-out forms, comparing male and female reasons for leaving. If it did not, take the general statistical model and apply it again, including a gender entry, and compare the results.
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:41 PM, Sandra ordonez sandratordonez@gmail.comwrote:
I think it does affect women more, but this is just my personal observation. And I should have put "typical response I ve gotten from women." This is why i love wikipedia - really helps you be very aware of your language. Thanks Oliver!!
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Oliver Keyes scire.facias@gmail.comwrote:
Yah, that's what I meant; newbie ignorance isn't a problem. Our attitude to newbie ignorance is the problem :P. This is something I think all new editors are at risk of (being shouted at and falling off the grid as a result) - I'm not sure why it would affect women more, or if it does at all.
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Dominic dmcdevit@cox.net wrote:
Newbie ignorance is never a problem. All newbies are, by nature, ignorant of our policies and practices. We all started out that way. And the great thing about wikis is that that is okay and you can still contribute. If anything, the problem is intolerance of newbies. (That may be what you really meant anyway, but I think it is better to turn that phrase "newbie ignorance" around.)
Dominic
On 2/11/11 5:49 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
"Typical response from some women" should be "a response from a woman". So the problem, then, is newbie ignorance about our rules and policies?
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Sandra ordonez < sandratordonez@gmail.com> wrote:
Just wanted to share. Yesterday I put something on my facebook re: gender gap. My friend from high school, who totally would be a woman who would enjoy editing an encyclopedia, posted the following:
"Whenever I edit it usually gets taken down but some OCD nerd, that probably wants no one touching "their" site so I stopped bothering."
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On 2/11/2011 5:41 PM, Sandra ordonez wrote:
Just wanted to share. Yesterday I put something on my facebook re: gender gap. My friend from high school, who totally would be a woman who would enjoy editing an encyclopedia, posted the following:
"Whenever I edit it usually gets taken down but some OCD nerd, that probably wants no one touching "their" site so I stopped bothering."
http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Former_Contributors_Survey_Results does make it clear that for people who do more than 10 edits this is two of the three issues they mention making them leave was a) they saw contributions reverted or removed over time and b) more frustration if no one explained why.
This is why I think training videos for newbies would be so helpful so they can emotionally (and hopefully amusingly) make the connection to people - all your edits may not stay, especially when you first start off before you learn what is or is not appropriate to put in an article, how to best reference and how to defend it from people who may have questionable reasons for deleting it.
The Contrib team is currently working on such videos.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:40 PM, carolmooredc@verizon.net wrote:
On 2/11/2011 5:41 PM, Sandra ordonez wrote:
Just wanted to share. Yesterday I put something on my facebook re: gender gap. My friend from high school, who totally would be a woman who would enjoy editing an encyclopedia, posted the following:
"Whenever I edit it usually gets taken down but some OCD nerd, that probably wants no one touching "their" site so I stopped bothering."
http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Former_Contributors_Survey_Results does make it clear that for people who do more than 10 edits this is two of the three issues they mention making them leave was a) they saw contributions reverted or removed over time and b) more frustration if no one explained why.
This is why I think training videos for newbies would be so helpful so they can emotionally (and hopefully amusingly) make the connection to people - all your edits may not stay, especially when you first start off before you learn what is or is not appropriate to put in an article, how to best reference and how to defend it from people who may have questionable reasons for deleting it.
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