Spot on description, Sarah, of why not to nominate an article at DYK, "... drama, rude people, too "complex" of a process for something so simple". Yup, DYK can be (is) dysfunctional and the DYK project doesn't take criticism well. But if an article meets its requirements, it will eventually make it to the main page. So nominating more articles seems to make sense.
I haven't witnessed gender bias within DYK, i.e. women's biographies don't appear to be treated differently than men's; self-identified female nominators don't appear to be treated differently than male nominators. But if you are aware of a nominator being treated poorly because of her gender, or really anything related to gender bias within the DYK process, I'd be very receptive to hearing from you, either through a reply here, or email me directly.
I appreciate all your feedback -- so keep it coming -- and I will work on a proposal to tackle this issue. Wish me luck!
-Rosie user:Rosiestep
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:00 AM, gendergap-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:
- Re: Women's biographies at the main page's DYK (Did You Know?) section (Rob)
- Re: Women's biographies at the main page's DYK (Did You Know?) section (Sarah Stierch)
- Re: Women's biographies at the main page's DYK (Did You Know?) section (Siko Bouterse)
- Gender diversity and women's biographies discussed in July WMF Research showcase (Pine W)
- Blog post "Creating Safe Spaces" (Pine W)
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:19:06 -0400 From: Rob gamaliel8@gmail.com To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the participation of women within Wikimedia projects." gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Women's biographies at the main page's DYK (Did You Know?) section Message-ID: <CAMY8yAXp_iQ8XXy= qVmH8JTZpACR+E2--HhojuR4_-z5MS9srw@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
DYK is pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes so I don't think there's any hope of changing DYK processes to address this issue. What can be done is to encourage individual WikiProjects addressing the gender gap to include submitting new and improved articles to DYK as a part of their regular process of article improvement. It's very easy to get a good article onto DYK once it is submitted there.
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 11:24 PM, Rosiestep Wiki <rosiestep.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
I've noticed this for years -- fewer women's biographies vs. men's in an average week at the DYK section of the main page. Maybe I've noticed this because I'm a highly prolific contributor to DYK. But I've wondered how many reader eyeballs land on the main page and notice the same thing?
Some statistics here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Recent_additions
Annually, there's a preponderance of women's biographies in March
(Women's
History Month). And during the rest of the year, there's the occasional
set
(6-7 "hooks") or occasional day (2-3 sets) where the majority of the biographies are regarding women. But it's an uncommon occurrence over the course of a week. The reason seems simple: fewer women's biographies are being nominated by editors, so fewer are promoted, and fewer appear at
DYK.
It almost goes without saying that fewer women's biographies are created/expanded compared to men's but it's actually important to address this, as IMO, it's the crux of the problem. I am not suggesting and would not support setting limits on the number of men's biographies which
appear
at DYK. Instead, I'd like to believe that issue/problem recognition is
the
first step before we brainstorm some objectives, develop workplans (i.e. monthly edit-a-thons anyone?), and measure outcomes.
I'm considering creating a proposal and applying for a grant to work on this "percentage issue". Feedback?
-Rosie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rosiestep
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Perhaps this goes back to the power of invitation culture that myself and sue have talked about in the past...
Monitoring new articles....inviting people to submit...helping them through the challenge.
Sarah On Jul 18, 2014 8:04 AM, "Rosie Stephenson-Goodknight" < rosiestep.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
Spot on description, Sarah, of why not to nominate an article at DYK, "... drama, rude people, too "complex" of a process for something so simple". Yup, DYK can be (is) dysfunctional and the DYK project doesn't take criticism well. But if an article meets its requirements, it will eventually make it to the main page. So nominating more articles seems to make sense.
I haven't witnessed gender bias within DYK, i.e. women's biographies don't appear to be treated differently than men's; self-identified female nominators don't appear to be treated differently than male nominators. But if you are aware of a nominator being treated poorly because of her gender, or really anything related to gender bias within the DYK process, I'd be very receptive to hearing from you, either through a reply here, or email me directly.
I appreciate all your feedback -- so keep it coming -- and I will work on a proposal to tackle this issue. Wish me luck!
-Rosie user:Rosiestep
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:00 AM, gendergap-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gendergap-request@lists.wikimedia.org
You can reach the person managing the list at gendergap-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gendergap digest..."
Today's Topics:
- Re: Women's biographies at the main page's DYK (Did You Know?) section (Rob)
- Re: Women's biographies at the main page's DYK (Did You Know?) section (Sarah Stierch)
- Re: Women's biographies at the main page's DYK (Did You Know?) section (Siko Bouterse)
- Gender diversity and women's biographies discussed in July WMF Research showcase (Pine W)
- Blog post "Creating Safe Spaces" (Pine W)
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:19:06 -0400 From: Rob gamaliel8@gmail.com To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the participation of women within Wikimedia projects." gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Women's biographies at the main page's DYK (Did You Know?) section Message-ID: <CAMY8yAXp_iQ8XXy= qVmH8JTZpACR+E2--HhojuR4_-z5MS9srw@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
DYK is pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes so I don't think there's any hope of changing DYK processes to address this issue. What can be done is to encourage individual WikiProjects addressing the gender gap to include submitting new and improved articles to DYK as a part of their regular process of article improvement. It's very easy to get a good article onto DYK once it is submitted there.
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 11:24 PM, Rosiestep Wiki < rosiestep.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
I've noticed this for years -- fewer women's biographies vs. men's in an average week at the DYK section of the main page. Maybe I've noticed
this
because I'm a highly prolific contributor to DYK. But I've wondered how many reader eyeballs land on the main page and notice the same thing?
Some statistics here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Recent_additions
Annually, there's a preponderance of women's biographies in March
(Women's
History Month). And during the rest of the year, there's the occasional
set
(6-7 "hooks") or occasional day (2-3 sets) where the majority of the biographies are regarding women. But it's an uncommon occurrence over
the
course of a week. The reason seems simple: fewer women's biographies
are
being nominated by editors, so fewer are promoted, and fewer appear at
DYK.
It almost goes without saying that fewer women's biographies are created/expanded compared to men's but it's actually important to
address
this, as IMO, it's the crux of the problem. I am not suggesting and
would
not support setting limits on the number of men's biographies which
appear
at DYK. Instead, I'd like to believe that issue/problem recognition is
the
first step before we brainstorm some objectives, develop workplans (i.e. monthly edit-a-thons anyone?), and measure outcomes.
I'm considering creating a proposal and applying for a grant to work on this "percentage issue". Feedback?
-Rosie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rosiestep
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Spot on description, Sarah, of why not to nominate an article at DYK, "... drama, rude people, too "complex" of a process >for something so simple". Yup, DYK can be (is) dysfunctional and the DYK project doesn't take criticism well.
As an admin who was heavily involved with DYK in the past but now does little regularly beyond the requisite QPQ review when I nominate one of my own articles, I’m saddened that this turnabout in our reputation has happened. It used to be that we were known as among the nicest group of admins at Wikipedia. I wonder if that has something to do with the gradual automation of the DYK process—when I was more regularly involved, there were no separate templates for nominations and we did basically everything manually, all the way to filling queues and updating the main page. We did a lot more of the work ourselves, and I wonder if that actually made us more tolerant of other people’s faults since we lived with the awareness of how easily we could screw things up ourselves and the consequences of doing so. The rules, more complex than they used to be I admit, came out of some instances where certain users, not part of the DYK process, made rude, dismissive but ultimately justifiable criticisms about some of the articles we were letting through (plagiarism issues and such).
But if an article meets its requirements, it will eventually make it to the main page. So nominating more articles seems >to make sense.
+1. For a new user it can be a huge encouragement to see the article they developed or expanded linked from the main page.
Daniel Case