Re: [Gendergap] Reframing...Re: Wikimedia Conference (was - Diversity training forfunctionaries)

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Good points, Jane Part of a hostile editing environment is the "either they ignore you or they insult you" phenomena. I'm sure a lot of women do quit for just the reason Jane describes - being ignored. I got that quoted phrase from a woman complaining about it in some mainstream article a few years ago. That made a lot of my experiences in email finally comprehensible. I found if I came up with a good idea, I was ignored. If I said something a bit outrageous in conjunction with that idea, some people might actually note the idea and comment on it, among all the outraged guys complaining about whatever (unladylike?) comment I made in conjunction with it. By the time I came to Wikipedia I was aware of that behavior and trying to find new strategies to get appropriate attention. Of course, on Wikipedia one doesn't have to go out of one's way to get attention if one regularly practices correcting editors, reverting them, seeking third opinions or going to noticeboards, any of which some editors also consider outrageous - particularly if the editor is perceived as being a women. Of course, if the editors in a specific culture - as where Jane was editing - choose to ignore women even when they are disagreeing with them or, in their eyes, acting outrageous, then that observation would not hold. CM On 12/30/2014 10:21 AM, Jane Darnell wrote: Hmm. I stopped editing the Dutch Wikipedia because it just wasn't any fun anymore. I would never say I experienced barriers to entry or that there were barriers to continued participation. It is more that there was a continuous vacuum of silence that made participation feel like I was on an island all of the time. I was never invited to the discussion table on any specific subject, and if I stumbled across one, once there, my replies to statements were never answered directly, but indirectly in replies to others. I was never addressed personally and asked for an opinion. That doesn't happen regularly on Commons or the English Wikipedia either, but I feel much less on an island in bth of those projects and much more a part of a community. Any contribution I made to an ongoing discussion on the Dutch Wikipedia just stopped the discussion altogether or was simply ignored. I vaguely remember a few deletion discussions where my objections were brushed off with ridiculous arguments - so ridiculous that I wouldn't know what to reply in all seriousness. Of course I can't back this up with diffs and it is just a feeling, but it's because of the feeling that I stopped contributing. I guess I also got tired of always linking to redlinks in my area of interest - there are just more people working in my area of interest on the English Wikipedia, so that I feel I can lean more on the work of others. On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Carol Moore dc < carolmooredc(a)verizon.net&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing listGendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap