Hi everyone,
A fellow-Wikipedian sent me a link to this after the GLAMcamp weekend,
and finding that I was active on our Gender gap list:
http://www.girlswritenow.org/gwn/node/988
Could be worth investigating!?
--
GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for the Wikimedia Foundation
<http://www.glamwiki.org>
Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Art
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch>
--
Sarah Stierch Consulting
Historical, cultural & artistic research, advising & event planning.
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.sarahstierch.com/
Dear Colleagues,
1) Clarification: I am teaching students how to edit and author in
Wikipedia. Topical suggestions for a methodology are welcome.
2) On motherhood: it depends on whether referring to the global situation, or U.S. This argument is extensive, and in most responses, symptomatic of the problem. Mothers, especially single mothers and children, are vulnerable populations under numerous social criteria. Mothers who don't hold a job and have nannies are relatively few; they may still suffer from lack of 'voice'. Again, concrete data are the most useful for understanding gaps and constraints mothers face.
ksrolph
> From: gendergap-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Gendergap Digest, Vol 4, Issue 17
> To: gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 05:40:25 +0000
>
> Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on, Wikimedia Commons
> (The Richardsons)
> 2. Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons (Bob Sponge)
> 3. Women's College Video Project on Commons Media of the Day (Pharos)
> 4. Re: Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons (Sarah)
> 5. Re: Gendergap Digest, Vol 4, Issue 16 (Karen Sue Rolph)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 21:26:53 -0400
> From: The Richardsons <donsav2(a)optonline.net>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on,
> Wikimedia Commons
> To: gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> Message-ID: <4DD714DD.2000106(a)optonline.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 10:37:41 -0600 (MDT)
> From: "Fred Bauder"<fredbaud(a)fairpoint.net>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on
> Wikimedia Commons
> To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects"
> <gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <44058.66.243.192.69.1305736661.squirrel(a)webmail.fairpoint.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 10:16, Fred Bauder<fredbaud(a)fairpoint.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> >> >>
> >>> >> > My point is this: a significant number of women (current and
> >> >> potential
> >>> >> > editors) don't want to work in a "I like the big tits" atmosphere,
> >>> >> > whatever
> >>> >> > was meant by it. Others don't mind. Point is that some*do* mind.
> >> >>
> > >
> > >
> >> >> So, was it an inane remark or a symptom of an atmosphere? I'm pretty
> >> >> sure
> >> >> you don't want to see an authoritarian crackdown either. We come down
> >> >> heavy on Wikipedia sometimes, but for much more egregious behavior.
> >> >>
> >> >> The problem is that such moves don't change culture, in fact, may
> >> >> sometimes facilitate it, if traction can be gained by aggrieved users
> >> >> who
> >> >> feel they are being treated unfairly.
> > >
> > >
> > > I see it as an inane remark that's symptomatic of the culture, in the
> > > sense
> > > that the poster thought it appropriate to post it.
> > >
> > > Moving away from discussing this image now, to the broader issue, we do
> > > see
> > > a fair number of comments like that on Wikipedia, and letting them pass
> > > without comment simply means they'll never stop.
> > >
> > > We had a situation recently where we were discussing a BLP, and part of
> > > the
> > > content was that the woman had experienced a serious sexual assault. In
> > > the
> > > course of discussing how to approach it, a couple of remarks were made
> > > that
> > > tended to downplay what had happened to her, and one person -- in a
> > > different section on the talk page -- commented on how attractive she
> > > was,
> > > and how he wanted to have her babies.
> > >
> > > I was so disgusted by this that I felt (and to some extent still feel)
> > > that
> > > I didn't want to be involved in the project anymore, because why am I
> > > wasting my time in that kind of atmosphere? I felt that it said something
> > > about me, rather than about them.
> > >
> > > I also had to decide whether to say something, or let it lie, and if I
> > > did
> > > say something, I had to make sure I was polite and circumspect, rather
> > > than
> > > screaming it from the rooftops, which is what I wanted to do. And it
> > > suddenly felt like nothing had changed in the last 40 years, that these
> > > remarks still appear, and that women are still made to feel bad if they
> > > challenge them. And if we do challenge them, must be extra polite about
> > > it.
> > > Not make a fuss.
> > >
> > > So that felt kind of depressing.
> > >
> > > Sarah
> Now we're getting down to a serious discussion. The actual horns of the
> dilemma a Wikipedia administrator is in. In a way being limited to text
> fails to communicate the immediate expression of disgust that would
> happen in a face-to-face situation, so there is a failure to communicate
> feedback effectively. A polite note fails.
>
> Fred
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Although I do encourage Sarah to speak her mind, I encourage her not to "scream it from the rooftops" because this could start a flame war. I definitely would not do that if I were you. But you also, as you said, not be too polite. Don't sugar coat things." That's my opinion I have never stumbled upon that on Wikipedia (I don't contribute especially often), and I hope I never do. However if I do, I will be sure to say something.
> --With well wishes.
> RDW2210
>
>
>
Dear Colleagues,
I'd like to introduce myself as new to editing and writing in Wikipedia. I especially took note of a recent New York Times piece on the low percentage of female contributors to Wikipedia; I felt it personally as an Op-Ed Project alumna.
I'm a scholar, and gender is one of my specializations as an anthropologist. I've studied gender in Japan, Europe, and Latin America, as well as North America. I am committed to social justice and improved human rights (and U.N. Articles) conditions for all, but especially women, mothers, and children.
I can see from viewing Gendergap, and other communiques within the Wikipedia nexus, that sometimes humor is difficult to account for. Humor seems so important, but seems to offend someone somewhere. It seems we all share the problem of wanting to communicate, but without a sure way to measure the consequences of what is said. I will be classed as an 'old' female, but given my Native American heritage, I want to remind friends that many cultures think of us as elders. Gentlemen should too.
My scholarship is far ranging, I am a product of U.C. Berkeley and Stanford U., I want to be supportive of all I can in terms of gender balance. For this reason, beginning in the fall, I will be teaching classes at nearby institutions, with an emphasis on female contributions. My work has already begun, organizing a curriculum. I will be watchful that young women survive and thrive in the environment. Let us see how it goes.
I would like to weigh in on the ways to treat females project- that circulated a couple or few weeks back- if others will permit me. There's an obvious reason women contribute less; we are busy with our babies and children. I am working on getting 'duration-spent' numbers in on that, so we can go to a concrete understanding of the time dedicated to raising young souls. (Not meant as a joke).
Meanwhile, my warm greetings to all on this list, regardless of gender.
Karen Sue Rolph
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 10:37:41 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Fred Bauder"<fredbaud(a)fairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on
Wikimedia Commons
To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects"
<gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
<44058.66.243.192.69.1305736661.squirrel(a)webmail.fairpoint.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 10:16, Fred Bauder<fredbaud(a)fairpoint.net>
> > wrote:
> >
>> >>
>>> >> > My point is this: a significant number of women (current and
>> >> potential
>>> >> > editors) don't want to work in a "I like the big tits" atmosphere,
>>> >> > whatever
>>> >> > was meant by it. Others don't mind. Point is that some*do* mind.
>> >>
> >
> >
>> >> So, was it an inane remark or a symptom of an atmosphere? I'm pretty
>> >> sure
>> >> you don't want to see an authoritarian crackdown either. We come down
>> >> heavy on Wikipedia sometimes, but for much more egregious behavior.
>> >>
>> >> The problem is that such moves don't change culture, in fact, may
>> >> sometimes facilitate it, if traction can be gained by aggrieved users
>> >> who
>> >> feel they are being treated unfairly.
> >
> >
> > I see it as an inane remark that's symptomatic of the culture, in the
> > sense
> > that the poster thought it appropriate to post it.
> >
> > Moving away from discussing this image now, to the broader issue, we do
> > see
> > a fair number of comments like that on Wikipedia, and letting them pass
> > without comment simply means they'll never stop.
> >
> > We had a situation recently where we were discussing a BLP, and part of
> > the
> > content was that the woman had experienced a serious sexual assault. In
> > the
> > course of discussing how to approach it, a couple of remarks were made
> > that
> > tended to downplay what had happened to her, and one person -- in a
> > different section on the talk page -- commented on how attractive she
> > was,
> > and how he wanted to have her babies.
> >
> > I was so disgusted by this that I felt (and to some extent still feel)
> > that
> > I didn't want to be involved in the project anymore, because why am I
> > wasting my time in that kind of atmosphere? I felt that it said something
> > about me, rather than about them.
> >
> > I also had to decide whether to say something, or let it lie, and if I
> > did
> > say something, I had to make sure I was polite and circumspect, rather
> > than
> > screaming it from the rooftops, which is what I wanted to do. And it
> > suddenly felt like nothing had changed in the last 40 years, that these
> > remarks still appear, and that women are still made to feel bad if they
> > challenge them. And if we do challenge them, must be extra polite about
> > it.
> > Not make a fuss.
> >
> > So that felt kind of depressing.
> >
> > Sarah
Now we're getting down to a serious discussion. The actual horns of the
dilemma a Wikipedia administrator is in. In a way being limited to text
fails to communicate the immediate expression of disgust that would
happen in a face-to-face situation, so there is a failure to communicate
feedback effectively. A polite note fails.
Fred
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although I do encourage Sarah to speak her mind, I encourage her not to "scream it from the rooftops" because this could start a flame war. I definitely would not do that if I were you. But you also, as you said, not be too polite. Don't sugar coat things." That's my opinion I have never stumbled upon that on Wikipedia (I don't contribute especially often), and I hope I never do. However if I do, I will be sure to say something.
--With well wishes.
RDW2210
>
> *Actually, given that the template was cascade protected by virtue of it
> being on the main page, only administrators can edit it. You're not an
> administrator on Commons, but you do have a staff flag. Therefore I'd say
> that's a staff action.*
>
That said, changed the picture without any discussion, only because some
people don't want to see a half-naked anime girl on Main Page (btw: What is
the problem with that picture? I'm a girl, and i'm not AT ALL offended for
see that in main page) was a act that NO ONE should do without consensus.
Not an adm, not an editor, not a staff.
And do that by abusing the tools WMF and the communitty gave you only made
everything even worse.
That said, i restored the original image of the day and would love if you
people decide if the picture should stay or not in main page ON COMMONS.
_____
*Béria Lima*
<http://wikimedia.pt/> (351) 925 171 484
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre
acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a
fazer.***
2011/5/16 Aaron Adrignola <aaron.adrignola(a)gmail.com>
> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 2:13 AM, Neil Kandalgaonkar <neilk(a)wikimedia.org>wrote:
>
>> I changed the picture. I'd like to note that I did this not owing to any
>> 'authority' I might have as a WMF employee, just as a regular person
>> associated with Commons.
>>
>>
> Actually, given that the template was cascade protected by virtue of it
> being on the main page, only administrators can edit it. You're not an
> administrator on Commons, but you do have a staff flag. Therefore I'd say
> that's a staff action.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
>
There is a long thread on the Commons and Gendergap lists about today's
featured image on Commons:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2011-May/http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/2011-May/
It's an original piece of art by a Wikimedian, "in the style of" erotic
manga:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:On_the_edge_-_free_world_version.jpg
The picture was removed from the main page by a WMF staff member, acting as
an ordinary editor, and then restored a few hours later by a Commons admin.
Aspects of the image that have been discussed include the fact that
* it has no noteworthy artistic value
* it is used to showcase a Wikimedian's artwork on the project main page
* it lacks educational value, being the work of a non-notable Wikimedian
* it makes the Foundation look puerile
* it might turn off serious educators
* it might turn off older people
* it might turn off schools
* it might turn off women
* it might turn off institutions owning valuable content from donating to the Foundation
* it is the victim of cultural fascism directed against manga/anime
* it is the victim of prudery
* it is the victim of censorship
* not showing the image on the mian page would undermine the Foundation's mission
etc. etc.
This is really a Foundation topic though. Are projects' main pages there to
showcase Wikimedians' fine art? If yes, then why do we not have songs by
unsigned garage bands "in the style of ..." as featured media of the day?
Should the Foundation establish guidelines on what type of content to feature
on project main pages?
Crossposted to Foundation-l, Commons-l and Gendergap.
Andreas
Hi all,
On Monday 16 May 2011 05:03:26 Sarah Stierch wrote:
> Surely I'm not the only one who noticed this lovely gem of a photo of
> the day today. In my work environment - NFWS.
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
>
> Direct link to image:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:On_the_edge_-_free_world_version.jpg
>
> I mean really? /facepalm
>
> This is the kind of imagery I have no desire to see on the front page of
> Commons. I'm a very liberal person, but, this makes me not want to even
> allow my MOTHER to use Commons.
>
I should note that I agree that such an image has no place as the photo of the
day on the Wikimedia Commons, due to its erotic/pornographic nature. It is a
very æsthetic work of art, and I found it appealing, but it has no place being
featured as the front page image.
And for the record, I am a heterosexual male, who opposes censoring
pornography, erotica, partial pornography, etc. of all kinds[Censorship], but
think there are contexts where they are inappropriate.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
[Censorship] - in fact, I would argue that such calls for censorship undermine
a person's right on their body, and sexual freedom for both genders.
--
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My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/
My Commodore 64 is suffering from slowness and insufficiency of memory, and
its display device is grievously short of pixels. Can anybody help? -- Omer
Zak
Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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Escape from GNU Autohell - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-
source/anti/autohell/
I promised, I forgot, I did not keep my promise — just shoot me, and get on
with it!
Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
Surely I'm not the only one who noticed this lovely gem of a photo of
the day today. In my work environment - NFWS.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
Direct link to image:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:On_the_edge_-_free_world_version.jpg
I mean really? /facepalm
This is the kind of imagery I have no desire to see on the front page of
Commons. I'm a very liberal person, but, this makes me not want to even
allow my MOTHER to use Commons.
#wikilove,
Sarah
--
Wikipedia Regional Ambassador, D.C. Region
Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Art
Sarah Stierch Consulting
Historical, cultural & artistic research, advising & event planning.
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.sarahstierch.com/ <http://www.sarahstierch.com>
