Le 15/12/2016 à 16:51, Olatunde Isaac a écrit :
Hi Flo,
"I guess you have little idea how much time we spend organizing this contest to say that."
"I guess it may not matter to you so much that the ratio Dollars Spent / Pictures Collected skyrocket."
I understand how you felt about the situation and I do sincerely share your feelings but directing the above comment to me is ad hominem.
I hold you in high esteem and you know I am disappointed that you have needlessly decided to make a personal remark about me.
Best,
Isaac
I apology if you felt offended Isaac. I am sorry of that. I'd like to ask you to forgive me please. Sorry.
Yes, I feel really wronged today. Maybe you do understand in truth. I am not sure everyone does though. Probably not. And that is fine. I understand.
Perhaps a tiny bit of background on my last comment. When we started the photo contest back in 2014, it took us quite a lot of time and energy to get the funding. And after the first event was done, we were given outcome ratios of "cost invested per picture collected". And informed we were basically having the worst rating of all photo contests so far. I understand WMF needs figures to estimate if an event is worth investing in or not. And a cost per picture is just one ratio amongst others that can help answer that question. And yes, Wiki Loves Monuments ratio is clearly way above ours. Many participants to WLM are old contributors, photograph amators (or professionnals), when they get to a building, they shoot it from every angle. Then, even though they select the best pictures, that makes a fair amont of pictures in the end. And they usually have little limitations of bandwidth to upload them. Our users are not in the same situation for sure. And the goal is just as much a goal of outreach and opportunity to do things all together than it is a goal of getting pictures in the bucket. Still, it is easier to "measure" the success of an event based on the number of pictures and the cost/picture ratio. So yeah, this is damage. Bad figures into Commons. Bad figures when we report at the end of the contest. Bad figures to communicate to outsiders and community afterwards.
This is also damage when we consider the outreach and visibility. With a banner set up at "10 views of the banner maximum"... well... at least indeed... there will be no user fatigue ;)
We are facing unique challenges than most wikipedians can not begin to imagine.
Let me give you one example of the challenges we are facing that any Europeans would GAP at.
We have not yet been able to send its event money to Zimbabwe.
WMF sent the money just fine. We started working on the money transfer one month before the beginning of the contest. For most countries, it worked fine and I guess they had time to organize. In other countries, such as Algeria, we again had some issues to get the money to the team because the bank was not accepting the currency. In another, the bank itself provided an incorrect IBAN (yeah). Oh well. But we made it.
Not for Zimbabwe... Money sent is turned back... with 10 days delays ... completely broken monetary system. We are waiting to see what happen with the last attempt and if again rejected, we will move into doing through Western Union. Hoping that it will work. In Europe, a monetary transfer would take... a couple of minutes to do and a couple of days to be credited at most. For Zimbabwe... yuck. I do not envy them.
I think there are enough challenges, that we do not need unexpected ones such as the site notice.
Flo
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
-----Original Message----- From: Florence Devouardanthere@anthere.org Sender: "African-Wikimedians"african-wikimedians-bounces@lists.wikimedia.orgDate: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:55:28 To: Mailing list for African Wikimediansafrican-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org Reply-To: Mailing list for African Wikimedians african-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [African Wikimedians] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: WLA : I need your help
African-Wikimedians mailing list African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians _______________________________________________ African-Wikimedians mailing list African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians
Flo, apology accepted with thanks. The WLA banner is on display now and if I notice anything strange, I would alert the community here.
Best,
Isaac. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
-----Original Message----- From: Florence Devouard anthere@anthere.org Sender: "African-Wikimedians" african-wikimedians-bounces@lists.wikimedia.orgDate: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 17:24:50 To: Mailing list for African Wikimediansafrican-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org Reply-To: Mailing list for African Wikimedians african-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [African Wikimedians] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: WLA : I need your help
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@Flo,
Your mention of "cost invested per picture collected" sounds intriguing to me, and I'm on my way to read more on that. First time hearing that.
WMF, just wow!
On Thursday, December 15, 2016, Florence Devouard anthere@anthere.org wrote:
Le 15/12/2016 à 16:51, Olatunde Isaac a écrit :
Hi Flo,
"I guess you have little idea how much time we spend organizing this contest to say that."
"I guess it may not matter to you so much that the ratio Dollars Spent / Pictures Collected skyrocket."
I understand how you felt about the situation and I do sincerely share your feelings but directing the above comment to me is ad hominem.
I hold you in high esteem and you know I am disappointed that you have needlessly decided to make a personal remark about me.
Best,
Isaac
I apology if you felt offended Isaac. I am sorry of that. I'd like to ask you to forgive me please. Sorry.
Yes, I feel really wronged today. Maybe you do understand in truth. I am not sure everyone does though. Probably not. And that is fine. I understand.
Perhaps a tiny bit of background on my last comment. When we started the photo contest back in 2014, it took us quite a lot of time and energy to get the funding. And after the first event was done, we were given outcome ratios of "cost invested per picture collected". And informed we were basically having the worst rating of all photo contests so far. I understand WMF needs figures to estimate if an event is worth investing in or not. And a cost per picture is just one ratio amongst others that can help answer that question. And yes, Wiki Loves Monuments ratio is clearly way above ours. Many participants to WLM are old contributors, photograph amators (or professionnals), when they get to a building, they shoot it from every angle. Then, even though they select the best pictures, that makes a fair amont of pictures in the end. And they usually have little limitations of bandwidth to upload them. Our users are not in the same situation for sure. And the goal is just as much a goal of outreach and opportunity to do things all together than it is a goal of getting pictures in the bucket. Still, it is easier to "measure" the success of an event based on the number of pictures and the cost/picture ratio. So yeah, this is damage. Bad figures into Commons. Bad figures when we report at the end of the contest. Bad figures to communicate to outsiders and community afterwards.
This is also damage when we consider the outreach and visibility. With a banner set up at "10 views of the banner maximum"... well... at least indeed... there will be no user fatigue ;)
We are facing unique challenges than most wikipedians can not begin to imagine.
Let me give you one example of the challenges we are facing that any Europeans would GAP at.
We have not yet been able to send its event money to Zimbabwe.
WMF sent the money just fine. We started working on the money transfer one month before the beginning of the contest. For most countries, it worked fine and I guess they had time to organize. In other countries, such as Algeria, we again had some issues to get the money to the team because the bank was not accepting the currency. In another, the bank itself provided an incorrect IBAN (yeah). Oh well. But we made it.
Not for Zimbabwe... Money sent is turned back... with 10 days delays ... completely broken monetary system. We are waiting to see what happen with the last attempt and if again rejected, we will move into doing through Western Union. Hoping that it will work. In Europe, a monetary transfer would take... a couple of minutes to do and a couple of days to be credited at most. For Zimbabwe... yuck. I do not envy them.
I think there are enough challenges, that we do not need unexpected ones such as the site notice.
Flo
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
-----Original Message----- From: Florence Devouard anthere@anthere.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','anthere@anthere.org'); Sender: "African-Wikimedians" african-wikimedians-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','african-wikimedians-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org');Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:55:28 To: Mailing list for African Wikimediansafrican-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','african-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org'); Reply-To: Mailing list for African Wikimedians african-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','african-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org'); Subject: [African Wikimedians] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: WLA : I need your help
African-Wikimedians mailing listAfrican-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org');https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians _______________________________________________ African-Wikimedians mailing listAfrican-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org');https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians
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In conversations back in 2014, I noted this reference
" Wiki Love Monuments 2012, the cost per photo used (not just photos uploaded, but photos actually used on wiki projects) ranged from $0.51 USD to $26.51 USD, averaging $2.43 USD. In our recent PEG grant impact analysis we found that across all 2013 Project and Event grants the cost per photo uploaded ranged from $0.88 USD- $1.44 USD. "
Very interesting stuff to read here : https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:PEG_Impact_learning_ser...
Then, for 2015, extremely interesting pages here : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Evaluation/Evaluation_reports/2015 Every person being involved in a User Group should check that out. WMF do stuff with the hard data we provide them ;)
Our budget this year is 30k We expected 9k pictures (reasonable expectation as we got about 8k pictures last year). We currently have less than 880 (with not much time invested in cleaning up copyvio for now. Probably around 10% from first sight).
Flo
Le 15/12/2016 à 19:36, Nkansah Rexford a écrit :
@Flo,
Your mention of "cost invested per picture collected" sounds intriguing to me, and I'm on my way to read more on that. First time hearing that.
WMF, just wow!
On Thursday, December 15, 2016, Florence Devouard <anthere@anthere.org mailto:anthere@anthere.org> wrote:
Le 15/12/2016 à 16:51, Olatunde Isaac a écrit :Hi Flo, "I guess you have little idea how much time we spend organizing this contest to say that." "I guess it may not matter to you so much that the ratio Dollars Spent / Pictures Collected skyrocket." I understand how you felt about the situation and I do sincerely share your feelings but directing the above comment to me is ad hominem. I hold you in high esteem and you know I am disappointed that you have needlessly decided to make a personal remark about me. Best, IsaacI apology if you felt offended Isaac. I am sorry of that. I'd like to ask you to forgive me please. Sorry. Yes, I feel really wronged today. Maybe you do understand in truth. I am not sure everyone does though. Probably not. And that is fine. I understand. Perhaps a tiny bit of background on my last comment. When we started the photo contest back in 2014, it took us quite a lot of time and energy to get the funding. And after the first event was done, we were given outcome ratios of "cost invested per picture collected". And informed we were basically having the worst rating of all photo contests so far. I understand WMF needs figures to estimate if an event is worth investing in or not. And a cost per picture is just one ratio amongst others that can help answer that question. And yes, Wiki Loves Monuments ratio is clearly way above ours. Many participants to WLM are old contributors, photograph amators (or professionnals), when they get to a building, they shoot it from every angle. Then, even though they select the best pictures, that makes a fair amont of pictures in the end. And they usually have little limitations of bandwidth to upload them. Our users are not in the same situation for sure. And the goal is just as much a goal of outreach and opportunity to do things all together than it is a goal of getting pictures in the bucket. Still, it is easier to "measure" the success of an event based on the number of pictures and the cost/picture ratio. So yeah, this is damage. Bad figures into Commons. Bad figures when we report at the end of the contest. Bad figures to communicate to outsiders and community afterwards. This is also damage when we consider the outreach and visibility. With a banner set up at "10 views of the banner maximum"... well... at least indeed... there will be no user fatigue ;) We are facing unique challenges than most wikipedians can not begin to imagine. Let me give you one example of the challenges we are facing that any Europeans would GAP at. We have not yet been able to send its event money to Zimbabwe. WMF sent the money just fine. We started working on the money transfer one month before the beginning of the contest. For most countries, it worked fine and I guess they had time to organize. In other countries, such as Algeria, we again had some issues to get the money to the team because the bank was not accepting the currency. In another, the bank itself provided an incorrect IBAN (yeah). Oh well. But we made it. Not for Zimbabwe... Money sent is turned back... with 10 days delays ... completely broken monetary system. We are waiting to see what happen with the last attempt and if again rejected, we will move into doing through Western Union. Hoping that it will work. In Europe, a monetary transfer would take... a couple of minutes to do and a couple of days to be credited at most. For Zimbabwe... yuck. I do not envy them. I think there are enough challenges, that we do not need unexpected ones such as the site notice. FloSent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile. -----Original Message----- From: Florence Devouard<anthere@anthere.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','anthere@anthere.org');> Sender: "African-Wikimedians"<african-wikimedians-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','african-wikimedians-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org');>Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:55:28 To: Mailing list for African Wikimedians<african-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','african-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org');> Reply-To: Mailing list for African Wikimedians <african-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','african-wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org');> Subject: [African Wikimedians] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: WLA : I need your help _______________________________________________ African-Wikimedians mailing list African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org');> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians> _______________________________________________ African-Wikimedians mailing list African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','African-Wikimedians@lists.wikimedia.org');> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/african-wikimedians>-- -- --
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