Hoi,
I have been thinking about this. I think the current approach is wrong.
I think it is the properties where Wikipedians rightfully want to be able
to use a text as a label that fits their need. Restricting this is probably
wrong.
It is in the Q values that we do NOT want editors to make a change,
obviously. I intent to write more about this.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 9 July 2015 at 12:15, Daniel Kinzler <daniel.kinzler(a)wikimedia.de>
wrote:
Before I reply to what you wrote Gerard, let me
summarize the question
we
actually need to answer to go forward:
* currently, property values can be accessed from wikitext using the
property's
(unique) label. Do we want to keep this? (the alternative is access via
P-ids only)
* if yes, should it be possible to change a property's label at all?
* if yes, should references to the old label break, or should they
continue to work?
* if they should continue to work, should this be achieved by making
the old
label an alias?
* if no, how should it be achieved, exactly?
Am 09.07.2015 um 11:54 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
> Hoi,
> The parser would understand it because it stored information. The
property is
> still the same property, the label it uses is now seen as a local
overrride.
That would be a completely new system, and quite complicated. It would
also
introduce a host of new issues (such local overrides may conflict with
new
names, or other local overrides, for instance. Language fallback makes
this even
more fun. Not to mention that we currently don't have a good place to
store this
kind of information).
The current proposal is to store those overrides in wikidata, as
aliases.
> Daniel, there are many ways to solve this. The problem you face is
based on a
> misconception. Language are not meant for rigidity.
Indeed. But names can be chosen to be unique. We do that all the time
when
naming pages. And when naming properties. Property names (labels) were
always
meant to be unique, this is nothing new. (For a while, there was a bug
that
allowed duplicate labels under *some* circumstances, sorry for that).
> Expectting that you can has
> already been shown to be problematic. Consequently persisting on
labels to be
> always unique is a problem of your own choosing. A problem that will
not go away
> and is easiest solved now.
If we drop the requirement that properties should be accessible from
wikitext
via their name, then yes, that would be easy. If people can live with
using
P-Ids directly, that's fine with me.
> It is abundantly clear that you WILL use the requirement of Wikidata
as an
> excuse when a language has no alternative.
Excuse for what? From a programming perspective, making people use IDs
is by far
the simplest solution. It's easy enough for remove support for label
based
access to properties, if that support is not needed.
Allowing access from wikitext using non-unique names, THAT is not
something I
would want to support. I can't imagine how that would work at all.
--
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer
Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
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