On 10/08/13 11:07, John Erling Blad wrote:
The language code "no" is the metacode for Norwegian, and nowiki was in the beginning used for both Norwegian Bokmål, Riksmål and Nynorsk. The later split of and made nnwiki, but nowiki continued as before. After a while all Nynorsk content was migrated. Now nowiki has content in Bokmål and Riksmål, first one is official in Norway and the later is an unofficial variant. After the last additions to Bokmål there are very few forms that are only legal n Riksmål, so for all practical purposes nowiki has become a pure Bokmål wiki.
I think all content in Wikidata should use either "nn" or "nb", and all existing content with "no" as language code should be folded into "nb". It would be nice if "no" could be used as an alias for "nb", as this is de facto situation now, but it is probably not necessary and could create a discussion with the Nynorsk community.
The site code should be "nowiki" as long as the community does not ask for a change.
Thanks for the clarification. I will keep "no" to mean "no" for now.
What I wonder is: if users choose to enter a "no" label on Wikidata, what is the language setting that they see? Does this say "Norwegian (any variant)" or what? That's what puzzles me. I know that a Wikipedia can allow multiple languages (or dialects) to coexist, but in the Wikidata language selector I thought you can only select "real" languages, not "language groups".
Markus
On 8/6/13, Markus Krötzsch markus@semantic-mediawiki.org wrote:
Hi Purodha,
thanks for the helpful hints. I have implemented most of these now in the list on git (this is also where you can see the private codes I have created where needed). I don't see a big problem in changing the codes in future exports if better options become available (it's much easier than changing codes used internally).
One open question that I still have is what it means if a language that usually has a script tag appears without such a tag (zh vs. zh-Hans/zh-Hant or sr vs. sr-Cyrl/sr-Latn). Does this really mean that we do not know which script is used under this code (either could appear)?
The other question is about the duplicate language tags, such as 'crh' and 'crh-Latn', which both appear in the data but are mapped to the same code. Maybe one of the codes is just phased out and will disappear over time? I guess the Wikidata team needs to answer this. We also have some codes that mean the same according to IANA, namely kk and kk-Cyrl, but which are currently not mapped to the same canonical IANA code.
Finally, I wondered about Norwegian. I gather that no.wikipedia.org is in Norwegian Bokmål (nb), which is how I map the site now. However, the language data in the dumps (not the site data) uses both "no" and "nb". Moreover, many items have different texts for nb and no. I wonder if both are still Bokmål, and there is just a bug that allows people to enter texts for nb under two language settings (for descriptions this could easily be a different text, even if in the same language). We also have nn, and I did not check how this relates to no (same text or different?).
Cheers, Markus
On 05/08/13 15:41, P. Blissenbach wrote:
Hi Markus, Our code 'sr-ec' is at this moment effectively equivalent to 'sr-Cyrl', likewise is our code 'sr-el' currently effectively equivalent to 'sr-Latn'. Both might change, once dialect codes of Serbian are added to the IANA subtag registry at http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-reg... Our code 'nrm' is not being used for the Narom language as ISO 639-3 does, see: http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=nrm We rather use it for the Norman / Nourmaud, as described in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_language The Norman language is recognized by the linguist list and many others but as of yet not present in ISO 639-3. It should probably be suggested to be added. We should probaly map it to a private code meanwhile. Our code 'ksh' is currently being used to represent a superset of what it stands for in ISO 639-3. Since ISO 639 lacks a group code for Ripuarian, we use the code of the only Ripuarian variety (of dozens) having a code, to represent the whole lot. We should probably suggest to add a group code to ISO 639, and at least the dozen+ Ripuarian languages that we are using, and map 'ksh' to a private code for Ripuarian meanwhile. Note also, that for the ALS/GSW and the KSH Wikipedias, page titles are not guaranteed to be in the languages of the Wikipedias. They are often in German instead. Details to be found in their respective page titleing rules. Moreover, for the ksh Wikipedia, unlike some other multilingual or multidialectal Wikipedias, texts are not, or quite often incorrectly, labelled as belonging to a certain dialect. See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special_language_codes Greetings -- Purodha *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 04. August 2013 um 19:01 Uhr *Von:* "Markus Krötzsch" markus@semantic-mediawiki.org *An:* "Federico Leva (Nemo)" nemowiki@gmail.com *Cc:* "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Betreff:* [Wikidata-l] Wikidata language codes (Was: Wikidata RDF export available) Small update: I went through the language list at
https://github.com/mkroetzsch/wda/blob/master/includes/epTurtleFileWriter.py...
and added a number of TODOs to the most obvious problematic cases. Typical problems are:
- Malformed language codes ('tokipona')
- Correctly formed language codes without any official meaning (e.g.,
'cbk-zam')
- Correctly formed codes with the wrong meaning (e.g., 'sr-ec': Serbian
from Ecuador?!)
- Language codes with redundant information (e.g., 'kk-cyrl' should be
the same as 'kk' according to IANA, but we have both)
- Use of macrolanguages instead of languages (e.g., "zh" is not
"Mandarin" but just "Chinese"; I guess we mean Mandarin; less sure about Kurdish ...)
- Language codes with incomplete information (e.g., "sr" should be
"sr-Cyrl" or "sr-Latn", both of which already exist; same for "zh" and "zh-Hans"/"zh-Hant", but also for "zh-HK" [is this simplified or traditional?]).
I invite any language experts to look at the file and add comments/improvements. Some of the issues should possibly also be considered on the implementation side: we don't want two distinct codes for the same thing.
Cheers,
Markus
On 04/08/13 16:35, Markus Krötzsch wrote:
On 04/08/13 13:17, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
Markus Krötzsch, 04/08/2013 12:32:
- Wikidata uses "be-x-old" as a code, but MediaWiki messages for this
language seem to use "be-tarask" as a language code. So there must be
a
mapping somewhere. Where?
Where I linked it.
Are you sure? The file you linked has mappings from site ids to
language
codes, not from language codes to language codes. Do you mean to say: "If you take only the entries of the form 'XXXwiki' in the list, and extract a language code from the XXX, then you get a mapping from language codes to language codes that covers all exceptions in Wikidata"? This approach would give us:
'als' : 'gsw', 'bat-smg': 'sgs', 'be_x_old' : 'be-tarask', 'crh': 'crh-latn', 'fiu_vro': 'vro', 'no' : 'nb', 'roa-rup': 'rup', 'zh-classical' : 'lzh' 'zh-min-nan': 'nan', 'zh-yue': 'yue'
Each of the values on the left here also occur as language tags in Wikidata, so if we map them, we use the same tag for things that Wikidata has distinct tags for. For example, Q27 has a label for yue
but
also for zh-yue [1]. It seems to be wrong to export both of these with the same language tag if Wikidata uses them for different purposes.
Maybe this is a bug in Wikidata and we should just not export texts
with
any of the above codes at all (since they always are given by another tag directly)?
- MediaWiki's
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgDummyLanguageCodes
provides some mappings. For example, it maps "zh-yue" to "yue". Yet, Wikidata use both of these codes. What does this mean?
Answers to Nemo's points inline:
On 04/08/13 06:15, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: > Markus Krötzsch, 03/08/2013 15:48:
...
> Apart from the above, doesn't wgLanguageCode in >
https://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php
> > have what you need?
Interesting. However, the list there does not contain all 300 sites
that
we currently find in Wikidata dumps (and some that we do not find
there,
including things like dkwiki that seem to be outdated). The full
list of
sites we support is also found in the file I mentioned above, just
after
the language list (variable siteLanguageCodes).
Of course not all wikis are there, that configuration is needed only when the subdomain is "wrong". It's still not clear to me what codes
you
are considering wrong.
Well, the obvious: if a language used in Wikidata labels or on
Wikimedia
sites has an official IANA code [2], then we should use this code.
Every
other code would be "wrong". For languages that do not have any
accurate
code, we should probably use a private code, following the requirements of BCP 47 for private use subtags (in particular, they should have a single x somewhere).
This does not seem to be done correctly by my current code. For
example,
we now map 'map_bmswiki' to 'map-bms'. While both 'map' and 'bms' are lANA language tags, I am not sure that their combination makes sense. The language should be Basa Banyumasan, but bms is for Bilma Kanuri
(and
it is a language code, not a dialect code). Note that map-bms does not occur in the file you linked to, so I guess there is some more work
to do.
Markus
http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-reg...
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