Hi all -
Although this thread has gone pretty far from perfectly as a whole, it has comforted me to see a number of people contribute to the thread who haven't been active on this list in quite a while. I'm going to send out a couple separate emails apart from this - but would like to thank the contributors who have popped in to this thread to post their thoughts who have been inactive for some period of time. I can't guarantee I will be able to consistently do so, but will make a stronger effort to keep up on gendergap-l traffic going forward, and also to try to help ensure that any obstacles that currently discourage women from participating in this list are mitigated, moderated, or if push comes to shove, removed from this individual community at least.
Best, Kevin Gorman
On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 2:09 AM, Marie Earley eiryel@hotmail.com wrote:
Apologies for long post but, as another example of external pressure often being able to get to do more than internal, I'd like to relate the following experience.
In October 2008 I joined TriggerStreet.com (now Trigger Street Labs http://labs.triggerstreet.com/). It is a website set up by Kevin Spacey and his business partner Dana Brunetti, their film production company made *The Social Network* and *Captain Phillips*.
The idea of the website is for members to read each others screenplays / short stories, watch each other's short films and give feedback. You earn credits for reviewing material and spend them on adding your own material to the site, you can also add additional credits to 'push' your work nearer to the top of the pile waiting to be reviewed.
The website also has discussion forums, I was shocked, not only by the comments on display but also by the attitude of moderators. In one early exchange the word 'fa**ots' was used to describe gay people, the thread was locked but no action was taken against the perpetrator. I e-mailed the moderator asking why, he wrote back to me saying, "As a gay man myself I am sympathetic to your comments," (I hadn't known he was gay until he replied) "but as a moderator, I have now locked the thread and it will now slide down the boards."
Discussing the policy on how the site was run on the boards was a complete NO-NO, there was just a general rule about 'not feeding trolls'. Another thread I was involved with concerned a discussion about Julian Assange there was lively discussion as to whether he was a hero or a villain, but it was civil. Out of nowhere there was a comment, "Why can't we get back to talking about porn and masturbation." Everyone ignored this, the conversation went on, there were two further attempts by the same poster asking the same thing, he then began his own thread entitled the "Porn and masturbation thread." Not only was nothing done, in a (very, very naughty) thread suggesting more ought to be done to prevent such behaviour, Dana Brunetti in particular stated that he didn't want the site to become "sanitized" and he didn't want it to turn into Orwell's *1984* - to an approving chorus of "Dana's right" from other members.
Just like Wikipedia there is no way of blocking other users, and, again like Wikipedia, the nature of what the website was set up to do may mean that it is impractical. It was all compounded for me by the "screenplay of the month" feature where the winner was displayed on the home page (since replaced by "featured short film", "featured short story" and "featured screenplay"). I watched winners include Mr. "fa**ots" and, another month, Mr. "porn and masturbation thread". The name of the screenplay of the month winner and their avatar were also displayed, this prompted one winner to change his avatar to two women in bikinis kissing. Cue a congratulatory thread to the male writer in his early 20s plus a side helping of "nice avatar btw." One bigot had his screenplay optioned by a studio - so much for ignoring trolls.
The website also had an industry podcast each week usually featuring Dana and Vice-President of Trigger Street, Carter Swan. One week they said that there were going to be big changes including revamping the website, and anyone who didn't like the new changes could "f*** off". One of the changes was to get rid of the plays section (and with it all the credits I had gathered). One of the other changes was to have a lot more podcasts from a purpose built studio. A fashion podcast, a music podcast, one for comic enthusiasts and one featuring the porn star Kayden Kross, reviewing a different film each week.
I complained (by e-mail - no dissent allowed on the forums remember), I was ignored, so then I tried a different tactic. I wrote to various groups dealing with domestic violence that were based in Southwark, London (home of the Old Vic where Spacey is the Artistic Director), asking them to lobby Kevin Spacey at the Old Vic. I also wrote to all the e-mail addresses within the Old Vic that I could find. It worked the other podcasts continued but the ones by Kayden Kross stopped.
The rules about using the website also changed, including the following new statement:* "While using the Site or Services, you agree not to: Transmit any content or information that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, libelous, vulgar, obscene, hateful, fraudulent or otherwise objectionable content, or infringes on our or any third party's intellectual property or other rights."*
I have no idea how much of that (if any) was because down to what I did. I have also no idea how rigorously the new rules were / are enforced, they got rid of me around the same time as Kross. My account, not deleted, just suspended where it has remained since August 2011, no explanation given and no indication as to if / when it will be reinstated - if they read this it will probably
The film - *50 Shades of Grey* is set to be released on Valentine's Day 2015, it is being made by Trigger Street Productions.
Marie
From: LtPowers_Wiki@rochester.rr.com To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 08:24:12 -0400
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] A cautionary tale
Wow. That's sobering. I'd like to think we don't have it that bad on WMF sites, but maybe we do?
Then there's this:
"Technical solutions abound when websites and apps provide options that take targeted users into consideration -- namely, giving us back our ability to make boundaries. For instance, sites shouldn't let strangers message strangers, and all sites and apps should allow users to block others. When Quora tells people to pick interests or topics they want, it should also tell them to pick interests or topics they don't want."
Unfortunately, I don't see any way that a wiki can work with the ability to block "strangers" from messaging each other, or allowing individual person-to-person blocks. Works great for message boards; doesn't work on a wiki. Does it?
Powers &8^]-----Original Message----- *From:* Delphine Ménard [mailto:notafishz@gmail.com] *Sent:* 22 June 2014 19:05 *To:* gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org *Subject:* [Gendergap] A cautionary tale
Hello, I found this: http://www.zdnet.com/quoras-misogyny-problem-a-cautionary-tale-7000030762/ an interesting read. Cheers, Delphine
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