Thanks, I really appreciated that. I wouldn't say "even of this list"
Sandra, I would say "especially of this list," because after all this
list is supposed to be about how to get more women to participate, so
it's especially annoying for women to be talked down here. I do think
it's gotten better; lately I've seen more women participating and
coming up with interesting ideas and being listened to, and less men
explaining it all to us. But earlier, when I shared my experiences as
an editor on Wikipedia, it was pretty hard going. First I was told
that obviously I must be somehow provoking the conflict I was
encountering by being uncivil somehow, and when I established that
wasn't the case, then it went the other way and it must be that I'm
too easily intimidated. Someone (a man, in all these cases) even said
that it was like High Noon, the brave man being abandoned by his woman
while he fights evil alone. If they couldn't make it my fault one
way, and make it stick, they'd make it my fault some other way; the
main thing was it had to be my fault that I was finding the editing
environment unpleasant and aversive.
My sister, the dean of sciences at a university, read some of that and
said, "If anyone really wanted to know why women don't edit Wikipedia,
all they'd have to do is read this conversation."
Woonpton
On 2/17/11, Sandra <sandratordonez(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I couldn't agree with this statement more. I
think that even of this list,
w have been seeing a little bit of this phenomena. Diversity of opinion is
great but maybe some of us (me included) could lurk a bit and give new
people more of an incentive to talk.
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 17, 2011, at 4:57 PM, ChaoticFluffy <chaoticfluffy(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I know PZ and his atheism might not be to
everyone's taste, but apparently
atheist organizations are also struggling with a gender gap. He made a
post on his blog yesterday that really resonated with me. The full post is
here, but what really resonates with me is this bit:
"You want women to find your organization pleasant and interesting and
worth contributing to? Then don't form panels full of men trying to figure
out what women want, talking over women who try to get a word in edgewise,
belittling women's suggestions with jokes, and trying to determine how We
Well-Meaning Men can give Those Women what we think they want."
Listen to the women instead of talking over them, guys. Seriously.
-fluff
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