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Subhashish Panigrahi

8 Aug 2014 8 Aug '14

5:52 a.m.

" <wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Hi all, Since yesterday, my Facebook wall has been flooded with monkey selfies. It i= s that media has hyped, there is a need for creating a category. I am propos= ing this and requesting someone to create a campaign that also keeps the lic= ense as CC0. Feedbacks welcome. Best! Subha=

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Fabian Tompsett

8 Aug 8 Aug

8:16 a.m.

I agree. We should also make the most of this signifying monkey <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signifying_monkey> who is blessing Wikimania 2014 with his smile. The ancient Egyptian deity Thoth <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth#Depictions> often took the foprm of an ape: "He served as a mediating <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediation> power, especially between good <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodness_and_value_theory> and evil <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil>, making sure neither had a decisive victory over the other.[25] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth#cite_note-Budge_p._405-25> He also served as scribe of the gods,[26] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth#cite_note-Budge_p._408-26> credited with the invention of writing and alphabets (i.e. hieroglyphs) themselves. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth#cite_note-Budge_p._414-27> (...) The Greeks further declared him the inventor of astronomy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomy>, astrology <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology>, the science of numbers <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerology>, mathematics <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics>, geometry <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometry>, land surveying <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_surveying>, medicine <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine>, botany <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botany>, theology <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology>, civilized government, the alphabet, reading, writing, and oratory <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_speaking>. They further claimed he was the true author of every work of every branch of knowledge, human and divine.[27] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth#cite_note-Budge_p._414-27>" Clearly Thoth we must regard Thoth as a Wikimedian! all the best Fabian Tompsett, Wikimania Support Team, Wikimedia UK, Address: 56-64 Leonard St, Shoreditch, London EC2A 4LT Phone:020 7065 0991 Mobile: 07548 103787 On 8 August 2014 06:52, Subhashish Panigrahi <psubhashish(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Michael Peel

10:40 a.m.

How about: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Monkey_selfie (although perhaps that name's a bit too general for Commons...) Thanks, Mike On 8 Aug 2014, at 06:52, Subhashish Panigrahi <psubhashish(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Richard Symonds

11:28 a.m.

I think if it's commons you have to use the latin name for "monkey" Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 8 August 2014 11:40, Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net> wrote:

...

" <wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Hi all, Since yesterday, my Facebook wall has been flooded with monkey selfies.

It i=

s that media has hyped, there is a need for creating a category. I am

propos=

ing this and requesting someone to create a campaign that also keeps the

lic=

ense as CC0. Feedbacks welcome. Best! Subha= _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

Joseph Fox

11:29 a.m.

Monkius Selfius. Joe On 8 August 2014 at 12:28:45 pm, Richard Symonds (richard.symonds(a)wikimedia.org.uk) wrote: I think if it's commons you have to use the latin name for "monkey" Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. On 8 August 2014 11:40, Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net> wrote: How about: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Monkey_selfie (although perhaps that name's a bit too general for Commons...) Thanks, Mike On 8 Aug 2014, at 06:52, Subhashish Panigrahi <psubhashish(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l -- Joseph Fox Sent with Airmail

Jens Best

11:44 a.m.

Monkius Selfius - It's a (R)Evolution! See Trailer for the new Movie "Selfie of the Ape - The Copyright Wars" http://vimeo.com/102892584 2014-08-08 13:29 GMT+02:00 Joseph Fox <josephfoxwiki(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

*Monkius Selfius*. Joe On 8 August 2014 at 12:28:45 pm, Richard Symonds ( richard.symonds(a)wikimedia.org.uk) wrote: I think if it's commons you have to use the latin name for "monkey" Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 8 August 2014 11:40, Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net> wrote:

" <wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Hi all, Since yesterday, my Facebook wall has been flooded with monkey selfies.

It i=

s that media has hyped, there is a need for creating a category. I am

propos=

ing this and requesting someone to create a campaign that also keeps

the lic=

_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l -- Joseph Fox Sent with Airmail _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

-- -- Jens Best Präsidium Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. web: http://www.wikimedia.de mail: jens.best <http://goog_17221883>@wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

Fabian Tompsett

11:44 a.m.

Or: *Simia Autoritratta* all the best Fabian Tompsett, Wikimania Support Team, Wikimedia UK, Address: 56-64 Leonard St, Shoreditch, London EC2A 4LT Phone:020 7065 0991 Mobile: 07548 103787 On 8 August 2014 12:29, Joseph Fox <josephfoxwiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

" <wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Hi all, Since yesterday, my Facebook wall has been flooded with monkey selfies.

It i=

s that media has hyped, there is a need for creating a category. I am

propos=

ing this and requesting someone to create a campaign that also keeps

the lic=

_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l -- Joseph Fox Sent with Airmail _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

Gordon Joly

9:53 p.m.

On 08/08/14 12:44, Fabian Tompsett wrote:

...

*Simia Autoritratta*

Yeah, like Robert Mapplethorpe? Gordo

Thomas Morton

10:24 p.m.

I find this a bit distasteful, rather akin to rubbing it in the photographers face. Its fine to take a stand on a point of copyright. But being dicks about winning is surely not the sort of attitude we want to display? Hardly helps support our stance as serious, rather than trollish. Tom On 8 Aug 2014 22:54, "Gordon Joly" <gordon.joly(a)pobox.com> wrote:

...

On 08/08/14 12:44, Fabian Tompsett wrote:

*Simia Autoritratta*

Yeah, like Robert Mapplethorpe? Gordo _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

Tom Morris

10 Aug 10 Aug

11:01 p.m.

Thomas Morton wrote:

...

Joseph Fox

11:07 p.m.

I’ll agree with that, Tom. It strikes me as the social media team jumping at a chance to go viral - which in fairness is sort of their job. It sucks that these kinds of roles can be as unintentionally dickish as in this case. Joe On 11 August 2014 at 12:01:38 am, Tom Morris (tom(a)tommorris.org) wrote: Thomas Morton wrote:

...

Agreed. It is rather tacky, juvenile and slightly unpleasant. Be magnanimous in victory and all that. It'd be nice to know who thought "take a photo with the monkey selfie" was a useful and productive piece of free culture activism. Because it just makes us look like mean jerks. -- Tom Morris <http://tommorris.org/> _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l -- Joseph Fox Sent with Airmail

Lodewijk

11 Aug 11 Aug

10:05 p.m.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but to the best of my knowledge this was mostly spontaneous during the hackathon? If it was social media team then it wad a job well done, but that ix not how i perceived it. Lodewijk On Aug 11, 2014 12:07 AM, "Joseph Fox" <josephfoxwiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Joseph Fox

10:20 p.m.

Pretty sure this was spontaneous but I can't imagine for a moment the social media team had nothing to do with it - the photo was printed in colour dozens of times purely for this! Joe *Joseph Fox* enwp.org/user:foxj On 11 August 2014 23:05, Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote:

...

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Lodewijk

10:25 p.m.

I'm confident hackers know how to use a printer ;) but you may have a point, they mifht have prdferred a device. On Aug 12, 2014 12:21 AM, "Joseph Fox" <josephfoxwiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Pretty sure this was spontaneous but I can't imagine for a moment the

social media team had nothing to do with it - the photo was printed in colour dozens of times purely for this!

...

Joe Joseph Fox enwp.org/user:foxj On 11 August 2014 23:05, Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote: > > Correct me if i'm wrong, but to the best of my knowledge this was mostly

spontaneous during the hackathon? If it was social media team then it wad a job well done, but that ix not how i perceived it.

...

> > Lodewijk > > On Aug 11, 2014 12:07 AM, "Joseph Fox" <josephfoxwiki(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I’ll agree with that, Tom. It strikes me as the social media team

jumping at a chance to go viral - which in fairness is sort of their job. It sucks that these kinds of roles can be as unintentionally dickish as in this case.

...

>> >> Joe >> >> On 11 August 2014 at 12:01:38 am, Tom Morris (tom(a)tommorris.org) wrote: >>> >>> Thomas Morton wrote: >>> > I find this a bit distasteful, rather akin to rubbing it in the >>> > photographers face. >>> > >>> > Its fine to take a stand on a point of copyright. >>> > >>> > But being dicks about winning is surely not the sort of attitude we

want

...

>>> > to display? Hardly helps support our stance as serious, rather than >>> > trollish. >>> > >>> >>> Agreed. It is rather tacky, juvenile and slightly unpleasant. Be >>> magnanimous in victory and all that. It'd be nice to know who thought >>> "take a photo with the monkey selfie" was a useful and productive piece >>> of free culture activism. Because it just makes us look like mean

jerks.

...

-- Tom Morris <http://tommorris.org/> _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

-- Joseph Fox Sent with Airmail _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

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Luca Martinelli

11:03 p.m.

Dear Joseph, I am confident that your point, now that the conference is over, is clear. Can we please drop this thread, since what is done, is done, and since that many wikipedians did not share your point of view, and they made it clear by shooting so many monkey selfies? Thanks a lot, L. 2014-08-12 0:20 GMT+02:00 Joseph Fox <josephfoxwiki(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

Pretty sure this was spontaneous but I can't imagine for a moment the social media team had nothing to do with it - the photo was printed in colour dozens of times purely for this! Joe Joseph Fox enwp.org/user:foxj On 11 August 2014 23:05, Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org> wrote:

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-- Luca "Sannita" Martinelli http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Sannita

Luca Martinelli

8:32 a.m.

I think this is just a bit of overreacting. I don't feel like a jerk because I took a #monkeyselfie, it's just a joke. I don't think the photographer will get mad at us for this, nor that he will feel mocked by an innocent game. It's about fun, not about copyright law. L. Il 11/ago/2014 00:01 "Tom Morris" <tom(a)tommorris.org> ha scritto:

...

Thomas Morton wrote:

Rebecca Cotton

9:55 p.m.

Did I miss something? Afaik he's probably still taking Wikimedia to court. So where is the "winning" here? Cheers, Rebecca PS: that aside: you can have a picture with a monkey taking a selfie!! For most of us that is probably the closest we'll ever get to being in a monkey selfie! (It is ok though not to be excited about this) On August 11, 2014 12:01:26 AM GMT+01:00, Tom Morris <tom(a)tommorris.org> wrote:

...

Thomas Morton wrote:

want

to display? Hardly helps support our stance as serious, rather than trollish.

-- Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

Osama Khalid

12 Aug 12 Aug

6:53 a.m.

On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 11:24:25PM +0100, Thomas Morton wrote:

...

But being dicks about winning is surely not the sort of attitude we want to display? Hardly helps support our stance as serious, rather than trollish.

That photographer who took copyright way too seriously didn't deserve respect. It's really silly that when he is actually dragging people into court, we hesitate to use a simple social defense such as this one.

Mike Peel

6:57 a.m.

...

On 12 Aug 2014, at 07:53, Osama Khalid <osamak(a)gnu.org> wrote:

On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 11:24:25PM +0100, Thomas Morton wrote: But being dicks about winning is surely not the sort of attitude we want to display? Hardly helps support our stance as serious, rather than trollish.

Pine W

7:01 a.m.

I expect the photographer would have made that claim already if he did significant post-processing and that WMF would have considered this in their decision. Pine On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 11:57 PM, Mike Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net> wrote:

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On 12 Aug 2014, at 07:53, Osama Khalid <osamak(a)gnu.org> wrote:

Because Wikimedians don't take copyright way too seriously. ;-) On that note - how sure are we that the post-processing done to the photo was sufficiently minimal to avoid generating a copyright in its own right? Thanks, Mike _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

Chris McKenna

7:15 a.m.

...

From everything I've read the only post-processing claimed is rotating and

cropping. Ten copies of the photo were printed out and stuck on to boards. As of the end of yesterday 3 had been found among the stuff that made it back to WIkimedia UK (although not all the boxes have been opened yet) suggesting that the monkey selfie may appear in other locations yet. The photos were printed out by Wikimania staff/volunteers, but who had the idea to do so I don't know. On 12 August 2014 08:01, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 12 Aug 2014, at 07:53, Osama Khalid <osamak(a)gnu.org> wrote:

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-- Chris McKenna Wikimania 2014 Support Wikimedia UK chris.mckenna(a)wikimedia.org.uk tel: +44 (0) 20 7065 0990 Wikimedia UK is a Charitable Company registered in England and Wales. Registered Company No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office: 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.

John Mark Vandenberg

7:29 a.m.

On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I expect the photographer would have made that claim already if he did significant post-processing and that WMF would have considered this in their decision.

A WMF legal opinion only applies to the WMF, and will be grounded in the copyright law of the US. OTOH, the UK copyright law is much less clear in this area, and I get the impression that the UK chapter didnt obtain their own legal advice on this issue. -- John Vandenberg

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participants (17)

Chris McKenna
Fabian Tompsett
Gordon Joly
Jens Best
John Mark Vandenberg
Joseph Fox
Lodewijk
Luca Martinelli
Michael Peel
Mike Peel
Osama Khalid
Pine W
Rebecca Cotton
Richard Symonds
Subhashish Panigrahi
Thomas Morton
Tom Morris