This Google lab translation thing Phoebe pointed out is amazing :)
2010/2/23 Wulfstan wiki.wulfstan@gmail.com:
Zwracam tylko uwagę, że każde małe dziecko powinno mieć opiekuna, z którym będzie się w stanie swobodnie dogadać w swoim języku.
Chyba nie wyobrażamy sobie sytuacji, w której dziecko jest pozostawione część dnia z ludźmi, którzy nie potrafią nawet zrozumieć treści jego płaczu (boli brzuch, nie ma mamy, chce do toalety, piciu, gdzie się podział ukochany misio itp).
So I'll just summarize this email in case the translation was really bad:
you're saying you can't imagine a kid spending part of the day with someone who does not understand their language.
Well, I have one kid (and a half), and frankly I can imagine that the babysitter does not speak French or German. We can't expect babysitters to speak all the languages our kids will speak, and that's fine with me. If they're good, fun people, and the kids are not all alone in their language (ie. they have a sister, brother or even just a way to talk to their parents when they need to), I think it should be fine. So don't worry too much about that.
The way I see it, is we need a few people (students, whatever) who will be there and be able to keep our kids for an to two hours at the time. I don't expect we'll leave the kids for 8 hours in a row, because, as was pointed out elsewhere, what would be the point of taking them at all to a techno-conference ;). But one hour at a time, when we are interested by one or the other presentation.
I'm ok if it costs money, but please not too much and also not per hour. I want to be able to pay at the beginning of the conference and be done with it, and be able to use the "service" whenever I want, not have to think how much the next hour is gonna cost me. For the record, I would find German prices a bit expensive while being in Poland :P
Important too would be to have the possibility of having evening babysitting (ie. people we can call if we need them to take care of the children during the time we go to dinner. That can be "separate" from the conference babysitting "fees" or "contract".
I can't imagine that there aren't students that are ready to do this for a price during the summer and who have done that before. I am not sure we need an "experienced day care" at all, especially if it's not "onsite". If help is needed from the parents, then we can also work on that, but I don't want to have to drive my kids to a daycare somewhere outside the conference perimeter. That's not why I bring my kids to Wikimania :)
Hope that helps to have an idea of what we're looking for. (cc'ing the wikimania-l list because others are there.)
Delphine
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
I can't imagine that there aren't students that are ready to do this for a price during the summer and who have done that before. I am not sure we need an "experienced day care" at all, especially if it's not "onsite".
The only issue I can see is with insurance. It would be absolutely essential that whoever organises the childcare takes out public liability insurance (that will be most of the cost, I imagine) and the insurance company may require those doing the caring to be registered or qualified or whatever (I have no idea how Poland does childcare).
Thomas Dalton wrote:
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard:
I can't imagine that there aren't students that are ready to do this for a price during the summer and who have done that before. I am not sure we need an "experienced day care" at all, especially if it's not "onsite".
The only issue I can see is with insurance. It would be absolutely essential that whoever organises the childcare takes out public liability insurance (that will be most of the cost, I imagine) and the insurance company may require those doing the caring to be registered or qualified or whatever (I have no idea how Poland does childcare).
You seem to be putting this in terms of how we can add to the bureaucracy. When you ask a neighbour's daughter (or son, to avoid being sexist) to come to your home to babysit while you go out for the evening do you really ask them if they have the necessary insurance policies?
You're talking like someone who has never been a parent. By way of observation, one of the problems with this issue is that most Wikimedians are young enough to never have been parents themselves, and have no experience with the practical necessities involved.
Ray
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
You're talking like someone who has never been a parent. By way of observation, one of the problems with this issue is that most Wikimedians are young enough to never have been parents themselves, and have no experience with the practical necessities involved.
Where's the "like" button in gmail?
Austin
On 23 February 2010 14:31, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Thomas Dalton wrote:
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard:
I can't imagine that there aren't students that are ready to do this for a price during the summer and who have done that before. I am not sure we need an "experienced day care" at all, especially if it's not "onsite".
The only issue I can see is with insurance. It would be absolutely essential that whoever organises the childcare takes out public liability insurance (that will be most of the cost, I imagine) and the insurance company may require those doing the caring to be registered or qualified or whatever (I have no idea how Poland does childcare).
You seem to be putting this in terms of how we can add to the bureaucracy. When you ask a neighbour's daughter (or son, to avoid being sexist) to come to your home to babysit while you go out for the evening do you really ask them if they have the necessary insurance policies?
You're talking like someone who has never been a parent. By way of observation, one of the problems with this issue is that most Wikimedians are young enough to never have been parents themselves, and have no experience with the practical necessities involved.
This isn't about protecting the parents, this is about protecting Wikimedia *from* the parents. If something goes wrong and a child is hurt, which is always a possibility, there is a risk that the parent will sue the WMF or WMPL or whoever for lots of money. You need to be insured against that. Most people wouldn't sue their neighbour since it is someone they know and trust but many people would sue an organisation that organised a conference they attended. That I am not a parent is completely irrelevant since I'm not saying what parents need to do, I'm saying what someone holding a public event need to do.
2010/2/23 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
I can't imagine that there aren't students that are ready to do this for a price during the summer and who have done that before. I am not sure we need an "experienced day care" at all, especially if it's not "onsite".
The only issue I can see is with insurance. It would be absolutely essential that whoever organises the childcare takes out public liability insurance (that will be most of the cost, I imagine) and the insurance company may require those doing the caring to be registered or qualified or whatever (I have no idea how Poland does childcare).
There are quite restricted rules if you can open regular kindergarden or nursery, however the irregular babysitting is not regulated at all. Profesional nurses have references, medical certificate and some formal education, but it is formally required only for regular employees of kindergardens and nurseries.
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com wrote:
2010/2/23 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
I can't imagine that there aren't students that are ready to do this for a price during the summer and who have done that before. I am not sure we need an "experienced day care" at all, especially if it's not "onsite".
The only issue I can see is with insurance. It would be absolutely essential that whoever organises the childcare takes out public liability insurance (that will be most of the cost, I imagine) and the insurance company may require those doing the caring to be registered or qualified or whatever (I have no idea how Poland does childcare).
There are quite restricted rules if you can open regular kindergarden or nursery, however the irregular babysitting is not regulated at all. Profesional nurses have references, medical certificate and some formal education, but it is formally required only for regular employees of kindergardens and nurseries.
And just to add to Ray's email, I believe all we are expecting is the "irregular" kind of babysitting. At least that goes for our family.
As for public liability insurance, it is a basic insurance to be taken by any event organizer anyway, and costs at the very most 500 € (in Germany or France or the US from my experience) for a conference like Wikimania.
Delphine
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
As for public liability insurance, it is a basic insurance to be taken by any event organizer anyway, and costs at the very most 500 € (in Germany or France or the US from my experience) for a conference like Wikimania.
If I were an insurance company I would charge extra for events which include childcare.
Thomas Dalton wrote:
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
As for public liability insurance, it is a basic insurance to be taken by any event organizer anyway, and costs at the very most 500 € (in Germany or France or the US from my experience) for a conference like Wikimania.
If I were an insurance company I would charge extra for events which include childcare.
I'm sure you would. It's the kind of profitable behaviour that you can expect from insurance companies.
Ray
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com wrote:
2010/2/23 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
I can't imagine that there aren't students that are ready to do this for a price during the summer and who have done that before. I am not sure we need an "experienced day care" at all, especially if it's not "onsite".
The only issue I can see is with insurance. It would be absolutely essential that whoever organises the childcare takes out public liability insurance (that will be most of the cost, I imagine) and the insurance company may require those doing the caring to be registered or qualified or whatever (I have no idea how Poland does childcare).
There are quite restricted rules if you can open regular kindergarden or nursery, however the irregular babysitting is not regulated at all. Profesional nurses have references, medical certificate and some formal education, but it is formally required only for regular employees of kindergardens and nurseries.
And just to add to Ray's email, I believe all we are expecting is the "irregular" kind of babysitting. At least that goes for our family.
As for public liability insurance, it is a basic insurance to be taken by any event organizer anyway, and costs at the very most 500 € (in Germany or France or the US from my experience) for a conference like Wikimania.
As I know public liability insurance is obligatory for events for more than 300 particpants when it is organised indoor and more than 1000 if outdoor, so we will have to buy it anyway. The rules about organising mass events in Poland are quite strict.
http://www.abc.com.pl/serwis/du/2001/1298.htm
http://www.abc.com.pl/serwis/du/2003/2179.htm
On 23 February 2010 15:13, Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com wrote:
As I know public liability insurance is obligatory for events for more than 300 particpants when it is organised indoor and more than 1000 if outdoor, so we will have to buy it anyway. The rules about organising mass events in Poland are quite strict.
I would hope nobody would even consider organising a big event without making sure they had the appropriate insurance, whether it is legally required or not.
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:16 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
On 23 February 2010 15:13, Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com wrote:
As I know public liability insurance is obligatory for events for more than 300 particpants when it is organised indoor and more than 1000 if outdoor, so we will have to buy it anyway. The rules about organising mass events in Poland are quite strict.
I would hope nobody would even consider organising a big event without making sure they had the appropriate insurance, whether it is legally required or not.
Thomas, for the sake of keeping this a useful list, I think it is best if you avoid topics you seem to know nothing about. In my humble opinion, this seems to includes childcare and insuring events.
Thanks,
Delphine
2010/2/23, Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:16 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
On 23 February 2010 15:13, Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com wrote:
As I know public liability insurance is obligatory for events for more than 300 particpants when it is organised indoor and more than 1000 if outdoor, so we will have to buy it anyway. The rules about organising mass events in Poland are quite strict.
I would hope nobody would even consider organising a big event without making sure they had the appropriate insurance, whether it is legally required or not.
Thomas, for the sake of keeping this a useful list, I think it is best if you avoid topics you seem to know nothing about. In my humble opinion, this seems to includes childcare and insuring events.
Thanks,
Delphine
-- ~notafish
NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost. Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
*amen*
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:16 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
On 23 February 2010 15:13, Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com wrote:
As I know public liability insurance is obligatory for events for more than 300 particpants when it is organised indoor and more than 1000 if outdoor, so we will have to buy it anyway. The rules about organising mass events in Poland are quite strict.
I would hope nobody would even consider organising a big event without making sure they had the appropriate insurance, whether it is legally required or not.
Thomas, for the sake of keeping this a useful list, I think it is best if you avoid topics you seem to know nothing about. In my humble opinion, this seems to includes childcare and insuring events.
If you would consider not taking out public liability insurance for a big event then you clearly need to take your own advice and butt out of this conversation.
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
If you would consider not taking out public liability insurance for a big event then you clearly need to take your own advice and butt out of this conversation.
Just quoting myself from a few emails back, in case you missed it.
--------------------
As for public liability insurance, it is a basic insurance to be taken by any event organizer anyway, and costs at the very most 500 € (in Germany or France or the US from my experience) for a conference like Wikimania.
-------------------
Delphine
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
If you would consider not taking out public liability insurance for a big event then you clearly need to take your own advice and butt out of this conversation.
Just quoting myself from a few emails back, in case you missed it.
As for public liability insurance, it is a basic insurance to be taken by any event organizer anyway, and costs at the very most 500 € (in Germany or France or the US from my experience) for a conference like Wikimania.
Ok, so what point are you disagreeing with me on?
Thomas, could you just do as asked and be quiet? Do you need to be moderated on all Wikimedia related lists before you realize your style is irritating?
Nathan
On 23 February 2010 16:30, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Thomas, could you just do as asked and be quiet? Do you need to be moderated on all Wikimedia related lists before you realize your style is irritating?
If you have a problem, fix it yourself. Try "Create a filter" near the top of your gmail window.
Thomas, and everyone --
This is not a discussion list. It is a working list for planning Wikimania, and for announcing news related to the conference. Subscribers include past conference organizers (such as Delphine), current conference organizers, and those interested in Wikimania progress and announcements.
Most planning discussion should occur on wikimania-planning-l or other planning lists as appropriate. General questions about the conference are fine on this list.
-- Phoebe
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.comwrote:
On 23 February 2010 16:30, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Thomas, could you just do as asked and be quiet? Do you need to be moderated on all Wikimedia related lists before you realize your style is irritating?
If you have a problem, fix it yourself. Try "Create a filter" near the top of your gmail window.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
You guys,
This is very quickly becoming a less-than-useful conversation. Let's stipulate to:
1. Child care is an important concern to several people, as it has been for the past five Wikimanias.
2. Insurance/bonding is wise, if not required, for any conference of this size; Wikimania's organizers have always seen to this, and child care can easily be rolled into the package for a relatively small sum, if necessary.
3. Nobody likes to see petty back-and-forths on a topic they really don't care too much about.
4. I'm an administrator of this list.
Thanks,
Austin
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
If you would consider not taking out public liability insurance for a big event then you clearly need to take your own advice and butt out of this conversation.
Just quoting myself from a few emails back, in case you missed it.
As for public liability insurance, it is a basic insurance to be taken by any event organizer anyway, and costs at the very most 500 € (in Germany or France or the US from my experience) for a conference like Wikimania.
Ok, so what point are you disagreeing with me on?
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 23 February 2010 16:32, Austin Hair adhair@gmail.com wrote:
- Insurance/bonding is wise, if not required, for any conference of
this size; Wikimania's organizers have always seen to this, and child care can easily be rolled into the package for a relatively small sum, if necessary.
Where did you get that last bit from? No-one has claimed to have any experience or to have done any research into insuring childcare facilities in Poland. My experience from a regular event I volunteer for at a local school is that the insurance for events involving children is rather complicated (the event comes under 3 different insurance policies for different aspects).
2010/2/23 Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com:
This Google lab translation thing Phoebe pointed out is amazing :)
2010/2/23 Wulfstan wiki.wulfstan@gmail.com:
Zwracam tylko uwagę, że każde małe dziecko powinno mieć opiekuna, z którym będzie się w stanie swobodnie dogadać w swoim języku.
Chyba nie wyobrażamy sobie sytuacji, w której dziecko jest pozostawione część dnia z ludźmi, którzy nie potrafią nawet zrozumieć treści jego płaczu (boli brzuch, nie ma mamy, chce do toalety, piciu, gdzie się podział ukochany misio itp).
So I'll just summarize this email in case the translation was really bad:
you're saying you can't imagine a kid spending part of the day with someone who does not understand their language.
Well, I have one kid (and a half), and frankly I can imagine that the babysitter does not speak French or German. We can't expect babysitters to speak all the languages our kids will speak, and that's fine with me. If they're good, fun people, and the kids are not all alone in their language (ie. they have a sister, brother or even just a way to talk to their parents when they need to), I think it should be fine. So don't worry too much about that.
Well. I think it shouldn't be a big deal to find someone to take care of babies. I just googled two more pages:
http://www.respekt.home.pl/english/
http://www.niania.pl/Opiekunka/Gda%C5%84sk/SearchProviderProfile.html
Look at the second one - more than 2000 offers :-)
The level of price per hour is from 6 PLN (1.5 EUR) to 20 PLN (5 EUR) (mainly depending on the experience, profesional background and references) .
2010/2/23 Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com:
Well. I think it shouldn't be a big deal to find someone to take care of babies. I just googled two more pages:
http://www.respekt.home.pl/english/
http://www.niania.pl/Opiekunka/Gda%C5%84sk/SearchProviderProfile.html
Look at the second one - more than 2000 offers :-)
The level of price per hour is from 6 PLN (1.5 EUR) to 20 PLN (5 EUR) (mainly depending on the experience, profesional background and references) .
Sounds (and looks) good to me ;)
Delphine
wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org