Best,
Lodewijk
On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 6:09 AM Fresh Look <freshlook2002(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
If true, others would be very interested in
learning what a '4 time
attendee' knows so they can also be accorded the opportunity to contribute
to this great endeavor next year and in the years to come. Much to learn.
Wishing all the best, it's going to be a great experience in Singapore.
On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 21:23 Željko Blaće <zblace(a)mi2.hr> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 3:14 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Zeljko
>>
>> Your comment is uncalled for;
>>
>
> Hi Gnangarra. Firstly I did not make a comment but a question. It was
> also towards someone who felt too busy to do edits *(which is fair, I do
> also), but was regretting it publicly while doing a lot of work for a
> friend that is interested to participate but also be very anxious over
> multiple things that could be interpreted as transphobia.
>
>
>> scholarships are distributed according to many varied criteria every
>> application is independently reviewed by the team.
>>
>
> I did not open the question of criteria, but if you feel like you
> wanna share more as a person leading this work I would encourage you to do
> it publicly and systematically on Wikimania pages.
>
>
>> Each application as scored is then compared across the region
>> maximising the best candidates,
>>
>
> Interesting. So the list will have regional and national listings of
> awardees?
> Was it done that way before? Looking forward to see this info.
>
>
>> each year its been the COT that have decided what criteria to focus
>> on.
>>
>
> Interesting. I would think it was a mix of established norms and
> program focus.
>
> This year the criteria was collaboration through outreach, and
>> developing new communities because everyone contributes in different ways.
>>
>
> Fascinating. I look forward to see people who do great work here and
> also who are close runners up. I see myself primarily as Outreach person
> *(would love to see Outreach wiki re-gain momentum) and really wanna know
> of people that are even more enthusiastic and productive in this direction.
>
>
>> One thing has always remained consistent that is we discuss the topic
>> not the individual, please refrain from judging the individual in future
>> comments.
>>
>
> I am sorry you felt this was judging *(usually you should be in power
> to do so), as I mostly echoed self-stated claims and asking questions.
>
>
>> Not everyone has the same freedoms or experiences at home and that
>> leads to concerns when travelling.
>>
>
> Since I would have not been legal in Singapore last year this time I
> am well aware of this, however this is based on legal regulations not
> hypothetical probability.
>
>
>> Trust & Safety people will be readily available during the event and
>> at each activity, all volunteers will have T&S training and instructions on
>> where to contact the T&S team
>>
>
> That is good to know.
>
> Thank you for fast inputs, though I was not expecting or calling it
> for as you phrased it, but I do look forward now to *(delayed) the
> report on Wikimania wiki.
>
> Best wishes!
>
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 at 08:30, Handoko Suwono <handokos27(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry if I am answering to the wrong thread about gender policing in
>>> Singapore.
>>>
>>> - handoko
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 00:55 Željko Blaće <zblace(a)mi2.hr> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 8:27 AM Mina Theofilatou <
>>>> saintfevrier(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi and thanks a lot for your email!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are most welcome.
>>>>
>>>> You also raised some super interesting topics and gave me insights
>>>> in your activities and Wikimania scholarship decisions I really
appreciate.
>>>>
>>>> I hope you do not mind this email remaining public as I really feel
>>>> it is an important topic at least as much as your friend does! I hope
Butch
>>>> does also.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> This friend is not involved in the Wikimedia movement, she would
>>>>> be a "novice". I talked to her about Wikimania - she can
self-fund herself
>>>>> whereas sadly I can't - and she raised some concerns.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK - but at least you got the scholarship so you are certain you
>>>> will be there?
>>>> I see you are not really contributing much to Wikimedia yourself
>>>> also
https://guc.toolforge.org/?by=date&user=Saintfevrier
>>>> Interesting that you have been selected for a Scholarship anyway
>>>> again and again...is this 4th Wikimania for you?
>>>>
>>>> I hope few people from our QW2023 team are there as one of 3 topics
>>>> is Diversity. For now I did not hear anyone got a scholarship.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The others I was able to address (respect for privacy e.g. by
>>>>> wearing the special tag that photos are not desirable) but this one
had me
>>>>> wondering. I told her she could sign up for the mailing lists but
she
>>>>> preferred the discussion went through me. She's quite sensitive
with her
>>>>> personal data, perhaps too much so, but of course I respect her
hesitation.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I see. What do you think makes her so sensitive? Was she
>>>> experiencing some kind of trauma? Most adult LGBT+ people did in one way
or
>>>> another.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It so happens that I have done a lot of reading on the issue, for
>>>>> totally different reasons, and I can confirm that incidents have
occured in
>>>>> settings where an individual who is male on all accounts (physical
>>>>> features) enters a female space (restrooms, lockers) by
self-identifying as
>>>>> a woman and then proceeds to harass women using the space.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Interesting. Do you mind sharing the references to that literature?
>>>> Maybe this is worth a Wikipedia article?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not saying it's a frequent occurence, or that it will
happen
>>>>> at Wikimania (haha she actually liked the name of the annual event :)
but
>>>>> it is a valid concern that needs to be addressed, if the organisers
want
>>>>> all participants to feel safe and comfortable.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree for valid concerns to be addressed whenever possible. I
>>>> would love to learn how this can be proven valid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In the past these issues would go by "rule of thumb": you
see a
>>>>> man in the women's toilets, you report it. Now I'm confused:
if you report
>>>>> it, would you be offending the gender access policy for the
restrooms?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do not know. I am queer identifying and male presenting, though
>>>> not always and in the most patriarchal normative ways. I would not go
>>>> around reporting people from just being around, but that is my choice as
I
>>>> feel I have no traumas with gender representation, but ideological ones
>>>> with rightwing Croatian extremist who obducted the HR Wikipedia for
decade
>>>> and were visiting Wikimanias and CEE Meetings without WMF's
intervention
>>>> for a decade.
>>>>
>>>> Self-identification can be tricky...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure what you mean. I think if people are not putting
>>>> others in direct danger through action, usually I am OK with whatever
they
>>>> identify as long as it is legal (no Nazi symbols and similar..)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That said, I would be happy to participate in any discussions on
>>>>> the topic, provided I can fit them into my hectic schedule (more
hectic
>>>>> than I care, which is one of the reasons I have not edited in quite
a
>>>>> while...)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, maybe you should reconsider if you travel too much and edit
>>>> too little and pass on the chance to others?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are most welcome!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 24 Jun 2023, 08:59 Željko Blaće, <zblace(a)mi2.hr> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Mina! I am not sure if we got to meet online, but I see you
>>>>>> are Greek and involved in Outreach activities so I hope we will
eventually
>>>>>> even meet in person in the Balkans. Meanwhile I see you attended
many
>>>>>> Wikimanias and glad to see you have friendly friends who claim to
be pro
>>>>>> diversity and confortable with LGBTQ folx, so I am curious about
the one
>>>>>> you ask a question for. Is she not comfortable asking this
question
>>>>>> herself? Why do you think that is the case?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Queering Wikipedia 2023 event organizing team is planning
offline
>>>>>> events and we would like to have them welcoming to all well
intendended and
>>>>>> tolerant folx. I am curious to know which exact incidents of
harassment by
>>>>>> 'males who identify as women' do you refer to? Also as
you think it is a
>>>>>> valid concern, I would love to know why you think this could
happen in
>>>>>> Wikimania? Because people are mostly Wikipedians and Wikimedians?
(hope
>>>>>> your friend did not misunderstand the wikiMANIA part of the
brand)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unrelated to our context, do you and your friend think
harassment
>>>>>> happens because someone is not-cis?
>>>>>> I would think it is mostly because those people are harassers
and
>>>>>> they are in bigger numbers as cis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your answers in advance!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Z. Blace
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p.s. As a neo-nazi and right-wing militants attack victim (also
>>>>>> known to be on their lists) I would love to raise concerns over
tolerance
>>>>>> for neo-nazi, right-wing and pro-gun militants in Wikimedia, but
there was
>>>>>> historically no or very little support for concrete work, so I
would love
>>>>>> for us to brainstorm at one point what makes sense to do, where
and when.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 8:23 PM Mina Theofilatou <
>>>>>> saintfevrier(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but on
behalf
>>>>>>> of a friend who is considering attending I'd like to know
about the policy
>>>>>>> on gendered restrooms in the conference venue. She is very
comfortable with
>>>>>>> the LGBTQ community and celebrates diversity, but is
concerned about the
>>>>>>> possibility of AMAB individuals who self-identify as women
using the
>>>>>>> women's restrooms. I have been to several Wikimanias and
I don't recall any
>>>>>>> related problems having occurred, but I do see that it is a
vald concern as
>>>>>>> there have been incidients of harassment by males who
identify as women in
>>>>>>> other public events.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, best wishes for a safe and fruitful Wikimania :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 23 Jun 2023, 20:22 Wikimania,
<wikimania(a)wikimedia.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Many of you are starting to plan your trips, and we’ve
been
>>>>>>>> receiving a lot of questions related to travel to
Singapore: visas,
>>>>>>>> vaccines, hotels, weather… We invite you to take a look
at our Travel
>>>>>>>> page on the Wikimania Wiki
>>>>>>>> <https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Travel>,
with
>>>>>>>> subpages for e-visas, attendee information, and
accommodations. Feel free
>>>>>>>> to leave a message on any relevant talk pages or reach
out to us at
>>>>>>>> wikimania(a)wikimedia.org
<http://Wikimania@wikimedia.org> if
>>>>>>>> anything is unclear or incomplete.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To highlight one point–many countries are visa-free for
>>>>>>>> Singapore, but everyone needs to fill out a Singapore
entry card before
>>>>>>>> arrival. Also Singapore requires a yellow fever vaccine
from many
>>>>>>>> countries–please see if yours is on the list!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Butch Bustria*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On behalf of the Core Organizing Team
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Boodarwun
>> Gnangarra
>> 'ngany dabakarn koorliny arn boodjera dardoon ngalang Nyungar
>> koortaboodjar'
>>
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